Leonardo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 How did she endanger the life of a fetus if it was dead seconds after being born? I mean, I think throwing it in the dumpster is crass too, but if it was dead, you can't exactly endanger its life... Because part of having a baby is going to the doctor and making sure it's developing normally; most of the time there are no complications but if you have the financial means to do so and don't, I'd consider it endangering their life, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 There is no legitimate perspective where it's not contradictory, your insistence otherwise is defending it. Our feelings for each other aren't really on topic for the thread, but mine come from this exact sort of shit..."I'm not defending it, I'm just putting out attempts at justification ".There is no justification for this bullshit.And this new poster is putting on a wonderful example of how these things that start as anti abortion grow and grow, further prioritising the fetus over the mother. But no worrying trends here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Because part of having a baby is going to the doctor and making sure it's developing normally; most of the time there are no complications but if you have the financial means to do so and don't, I'd consider it endangering their life, yes. Oh I see, didn't think about fetus vs. living baby distinction. In that case though, it seems to me that your claim relies on the assumption that a fetus has a life to be endangered... which I also don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Unless she gave birth to a LIVING child and put it in a dumpster, the woman should not spend one day in a jail cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 There is no legitimate perspective where it's not contradictory, your insistence otherwise is defending it. Our feelings for each other aren't really on topic for the thread, but mine come from this exact sort of shit..."I'm not defending it, I'm just putting out attempts at justification ".There is no justification for this bullshit.And this new poster is putting on a wonderful example of how these things that start as anti abortion grow and grow, further prioritising the fetus over the mother. But no worrying trends here. So you're advising women to subvert the law and their own health just to defend a right? Yep, I thought I smelled hyper feminism here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Unless she gave birth to a LIVING child and put it in a dumpster, the woman should not spend one day in a jail cell because throwing away fetuses into a dumpster isn't a health concern for the garbage men who have to deal with it. Totally right, trash is trash why not just put human remains on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 because throwing away fetuses into a dumpster isn't a health concern for the garbage men who have to deal with it. .Seriously, THATS the angle you're taking?? Such concerns should be worth a petty fine at most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Seriously, THATS the angle you're taking?? Such concerns should be worth a petty fine at most We throw people in jail for public intoxication, I think a night or two for thinking a dumpster is an appropriate place for human remains wouldn't be a bad precedent to set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 So you're advising women to subvert the law and their own health just to defend a right? Yep, I thought I smelled hyper feminism hereIf you're going to start spewing misguided anti-feminism rhetoric in this thread about a terrified and desperate woman in a truly horrible situation then it's probably best you leave.Also: she didn't throw a living child in the trash for it to die there. You're being deliberately provocative here. Just astounds me in a world where most people are completely fine with the mass slaughter of animals, living creatures, they "care" so much about the few seconds of a fetus' "life" (if life is even the right word) that they'd place it above the life of a grown woman and send her to fucking jail for 20 yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaminsod Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 If you're going to start spewing misguided anti-feminism rhetoric in this thread about a terrified and desperate woman in a try horrible situation then it's probably best you leave.Also: she didn't throw a living child in the trash for it to die there. You're being deliberately provocative here.Just astounds me in a world where most people are completely fine with the mass slaughter of animals, living creatures, they "care" so much about the few seconds of a fetus' "life" (if life is even the right word) that they'd place it above the life of a grown woman and send her to fucking jail for 20 yrs.I'm pretty sure his accusations of hyper feminism aren't misguided in the slightest. What he's said thus far is not about the woman herself, rather what others in this thread have said about it thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Wtf is "hyper" feminism??? Regardless; I feel it's a derailment of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaminsod Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Wtf is "hyper" feminism??? Regardless; I feel it's a derailment of this thread. Extreme feminism i'd imagine, the kind that doesn't involve working towards the betterment of women, rather nit picking or complaining about minor issues and making them out to be great injustices and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 There is a charge for improper disposal of a corpse, that wasn't the charge used here so arguing that's the problem is just bullshit.Leap I really don't see the relevance of your claim that the prosecution felt they weren't contradictory, obviously they did since they charged her with both. They are contradictory under the law (not to mention logic) and thus shouldn't be allowed by a judge.It's hyper feminism to point out that what starts as anti abortion laws get expanded to take away women's bodily integrity when a woman has just been sentenced to 20 years for having a miscarriage? And you claim we are the hyperbolic extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 If you're going to start spewing misguided anti-feminism rhetoric in this thread about a terrified and desperate woman in a truly horrible situation then it's probably best you leave.Also: she didn't throw a living child in the trash for it to die there. You're being deliberately provocative here.Just astounds me in a world where most people are completely fine with the mass slaughter of animals, living creatures, they "care" so much about the few seconds of a fetus' "life" (if life is even the right word) that they'd place it above the life of a grown woman and send her to fucking jail for 20 yrs. I sympathize greatly with the woman and her predicament, I'm merely saying that REACHING OUT to someone was a far better alternative than just taking this into hand. She may very well have killed herself, which is what I'm more concerned with than her being in jail. The sentence is ridiculously harsh, but saying she is a saint and didn't make mistakes is flat out wrong. What if the baby had lived, and was born in an environment where it easily could have contracted something and died, or herself did so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Just astounds me in a world where most people are completely fine with the mass slaughter of animals, living creatures, they "care" so much about the few seconds of a fetus' "life" (if life is even the right word) that they'd place it above the life of a grown woman and send her to fucking jail for 20 yrs. To be perfectly clear, neither do I defend nor do I accuse that woman. I comment your argument. With that reasoning you could set any murderer free because the victim is dead and we should care for the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Just astounds me in a world where most people are completely fine with the mass slaughter of animals, living creatures, they "care" so much about the few seconds of a fetus' "life" (if life is even the right word) that they'd place it above the life of a grown woman and send her to fucking jail for 20 yrs. That's because animals aren't people. Like, the two aren't really very connected if you don't have an ideological reason to see them as connected. And, even if you do, there's really no reason to be blinded to the reasons people see them as different. I imagine the majority of people don't have any problem grasping why the cases are different. It's honestly besides the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 To be perfectly clear, neither do I defend nor do I accuse that woman. I comment your argument. With that reasoning you could set any murderer free because the victim is dead and we should care for the living. Except even if one accepts abortion should be illegal there is no way in hell this passes reasonable doubt. So it's not a murderer, it's someone who witnessed a death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Extreme feminism i'd imagine, the kind that doesn't involve working towards the betterment of women, rather nit picking or complaining about minor issues and making them out to be great injustices and such. This just sounds like knee-jerk anti-feminist bullshit to me, to be honest. Kindly point out some examples of this so called "hyper-feminism" in this thread?? I know it's cool to hate on feminists now, especially if you're a young guy on the internet but this isn't really the time or place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Except even if one accepts abortion should be illegal there is no way in hell this passes reasonable doubt. So it's not a murderer, it's someone who witnessed a death. Where I come from this would be still illegal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue#Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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