Why didn't Bloodraven support Daemon's claim?

[Varysfan]

I know Bloodraven was hand but there seems to be suggestion Daemon was the brother he loved and as a fellow legitimised bastard I don't get why he is so pro Targ when Daemon was given Blackfyre and seemed such a good choic as King compared to his Targ half brother. Even with a thousand eyes and one he doesn't seem to have had his the others are coming I must save the world epiphany at this point and I can't help but wonder why he would stay so pro Targ when he seems very under appreciated by most Targs and Lords!

[Ser Leftwich]

What suggestions are there that the brother he loved was Daemon?

Why not Daeron? Maybe Daeron was nice to him in KL as he grew up and Daemon was a jerk.

[Alester Florent]

I believe the generally accepted answer is "Bittersteel". Bloodraven and Bittersteel hated each other, and since it seem Bittersteel provided a lot of the impetus for Daemon's rebellion, Bloodraven inevitably ended up on the other side. Even if it is possible that Bloodraven might have sided with Daemon out of sentiment, Bittersteel might well have talked Daemon out of including him in the plot until battle lines were already effectively drawn.

Bloodraven is in an awkward position, like many bastards in Westeros. So long as he has royal protection he's the man, but without that he's not got much going for him. He stands to inherit very little, and being a bit of a freak and feared by those around him, he needs to have status in order to survive, otherwise his enemies will probably make short work of him. So it's imperative that he is the arch-loyalist and nobody can ever call his devotion to the house of Targaryen into question.

Especially if he might otherwise have been expected to side with Daemon (and see also the Dance of the Dragons where the dragonseeds were condemned en masse for betrayal only of some; likewise Daemon and Bittersteel's rebellion casts a shadow over all Aegon's bastards) it's understandable that Bloodraven would become the leading figure in trying to exterminate the Blackfyres purely for reasons of self-preservation.

It's also debatable whether Daemon or Daeron really was the right choice. Daeron was always the safer bet: he was in situ, he had a good proven record, two promising sons to inherit, and although Daemon looked the part the rebellion didn't seem to have a lot behind it other than charisma, ambition from houses slightly lower down the pecking order, and generally upsetting the apple cart for the sake of it. Whatever the truth of the allegations and the precise nature of the personal politics involved, it's difficult to argue that the rebellion was in the best interests of the kingdom. If Bloodraven's loyalty truly was to the realm (highly debatable) then Daeron was, by the time the rebellion happened, likely the better choice.

[Alester Florent]

Double post.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

I know Bloodraven was hand but there seems to be suggestion Daemon was the brother he loved and as a fellow legitimised bastard I don't get why he is so pro Targ when Daemon was given Blackfyre and seemed such a good choic as King compared to his Targ half brother. Even with a thousand eyes and one he doesn't seem to have had his the others are coming I must save the world epiphany at this point and I can't help but wonder why he would stay so pro Targ when he seems very under appreciated by most Targs and Lords!

So Daemon had a sword, that makes him a better choice than the man who had been groomed to be king for so long? Logic failure much

[Varysfan]

So Daemon had a sword, that makes him a better choice than the man who had been groomed to be king for so long? Logic failure much

Being groomed to be King doesn't make you the logical choice, just look at the mad king or various other Targs and Kings of the seperate kingdoms who were awful kings despite being born crown prince! Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

Because his father was a spiteful prick who hated his trueborn son. He couldn't name Daemon his heir because he feared a lot of lords would rebel, but he could plant seeds for future conflicts to get some measure of revenge. The world book shows Aegon IV did a lot of things out of pure maliciousness.

A to the OP, as has been said Bittersteel and their rivalry sealed Bloodraven's decision. Daeron also seems like the kind of guy who would have been kind to Bloodraven, or maybe BR just figured the status quo was the safer bet.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Greensight allowed him to see the future? He opposed Bittersteel in everything, no matter what? He believed that, even though he loved Daemon, Daeron was a good king and the rightful king? Self loathing bastard (; Pragmatist who could see the writting on the wall that the rebelion was destined to fail? Any one or any combination of these.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

I know Bloodraven was hand but there seems to be suggestion Daemon was the brother he loved and as a fellow legitimised bastard I don't get why he is so pro Targ when Daemon was given Blackfyre and seemed such a good choic as King compared to his Targ half brother. Even with a thousand eyes and one he doesn't seem to have had his the others are coming I must save the world epiphany at this point and I can't help but wonder why he would stay so pro Targ when he seems very under appreciated by most Targs and Lords!

While Daemon looked Kingly, TWOIAF suggests he was a good warrior but was not very wise or prudent. Bloodraven was cunning and clever and he would favor a wise and clever king. The realm was at peace and the realm didn't need a warrior king, it needed a wise king. Bloodraven was smart enough to know that his father was not a good king and TWOIAF says that Daemon was similar to a young Aegon IV. In fact young Aegon IV, Aerys II, and Daemon Blackfyre are all described similarly as youths.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Being groomed to be King doesn't make you the logical choice, just look at the mad king or various other Targs and Kings of the seperate kingdoms who were awful kings despite being born crown prince! Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

But by all accounts Daeron was a good king. Daemon didn't rebel until nine years into his rule. The realm was at peace and didn't need a warrior king it needed a Wise king. The primary supporters of Daemon were lower houses and secondary houses hoping for advancement and Anti-Dornish hawks who were upset that they didn't get to invade Dorne and were instead forced to reconcile with them. Anything that Aegon IV thought was a good idea was probably a terrible idea. At the end of the Unworthy's reign it was only Daeron's influence that saved the realm from many of his blunders. Highly recommend reading The World of Ice and Fire.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

Being groomed to be King doesn't make you the logical choice, just look at the mad king or various other Targs and Kings of the seperate kingdoms who were awful kings despite being born crown prince! Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

And yet Daeron the good is not Aerys, He knew his shit, Daemon#'s head seemded to be filled with air. And Aegon gave Daemon the sword as others have said, because his father was a dick

[Sielk]

It is also mentioned in TWOIAF that Bloodraven's mother Melissa Blackwood became a friend of Queen Naerys and Prince Daeron.

I suppose that when Bloodraven himself grew up among them he built up a close relationship to his royal half-brother while he barely knew Bittersteel during his youth. (Who lived far away from King's Landing and only heard his mother's curses to Missy and her son.)

Regarding these points I think it's not very surprising that Bloodraven fought for the brother he knew and loved not on the side of the one who hated him.

[Nic G]

While Daemon looked Kingly, TWOIAF suggests he was a good warrior but was not very wise or prudent. Bloodraven was cunning and clever and he would favor a wise and clever king. The realm was at peace and the realm didn't need a warrior king, it needed a wise king. Bloodraven was smart enough to know that his father was not a good king and TWOIAF says that Daemon was similar to a young Aegon IV. In fact young Aegon IV, Aerys II, and Daemon Blackfyre are all described similarly as youths.

we don't here about daemon having any bastards and he was discribed as a possible new dragonknight who was trained by the best measter's and masters at arms. Does that mean that Baelor and Maekar were also just going to turn into mad kings or unworthys? Since they were raised and described in a similar fashion in their youth?

[OmnomnomPomelo]

Maybe he had a dream about Daeron or his descendant(s) become king, so he took the side of Daeron to make the dream true.

[barristan-b]

It is also mentioned in TWOIAF that Bloodraven's mother Melissa Blackwood became a friend of Queen Naerys and Prince Daeron.

I suppose that when Bloodraven himself grew up among them he built up a close relationship to his royal half-brother while he barely knew Bittersteel during his youth. (Who lived far away from King's Landing and only heard his mother's curses to Missy and her son.)

Regarding these points I think it's not very surprising that Bloodraven fought for the brother he knew and loved not on the side of the one who hated him.

That's my thinking. There seems to be a bit of the Blackwood-Bracken feud rooted in the Blackfyre rebellions. That Targ-Bracken bastard was critical in propping Daemon, therefore Bloodraven was on the side of the Daeron.

[the conquering bastard 25]

Being groomed to be King doesn't make you the logical choice, just look at the mad king or various other Targs and Kings of the seperate kingdoms who were awful kings despite being born crown prince! Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

aerys wasn't raised or groomed for the throne. Before Summer hall, house Targaryen has several other viable heir options. He was 15 and his father wasn't expected to die when he did either meaning there would have been amble time to groom his as he I apparent.

Groomingh heir for the throne is a time honored tradition in Wesferos and Real life.

Richard I one of the best educated medevial kings in history. Both Heny II and Eleanor of Aquitaine were big on education.

And that tradition continues until the War of the Roses. Edward IV wasn't grooms for the throne and hes one of the most underrated English monarchs in history! If he had lived he not Tudor would have set the realm to rights.

After Tudors ascention Henry VIII would be thought of as one of the most brilliant kings to sit the English throne. And one would have to be to dismantle magna carts split from Rome and make the clergy his bitch. Some thing not even Henry I,II or Stephen I could do.

Edward VI, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I were and are their fathers children Elizabeth was the heir he wanted.

[The silver dragon]

aerys wasn't raised or groomed for the throne. Before Summer hall, house Targaryen has several other viable heir options. He was 15 and his father wasn't expected to die when he did either meaning there would have been amble time to groom his as he I apparent.

Groomingh heir for the throne is a time honored tradition in Wesferos and Real life.

Richard I one of the best educated medevial kings in history. Both Heny II and Eleanor of Aquitaine were big on education.

And that tradition continues until the War of the Roses. Edward IV wasn't grooms for the throne and hes one of the most underrated English monarchs in history! If he had lived he not Tudor would have set the realm to rights.

After Tudors ascention Henry VIII would be thought of as one of the most brilliant kings to sit the English throne. And one would have to be to dismantle magna carts split from Rome and make the clergy his bitch. Some thing not even Henry I,II or Stephen I could do.

Edward VI, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I were and are their fathers children Elizabeth was the heir he wanted.

he was groomed.

jaerharys 2 was set to inherit because Duncan decided to give up his throne for jenny.

aerys was his son and thus also set to inherit.

bedsides what makes you think that daena would not want her son groomed to rule?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Being groomed to be King doesn't make you the logical choice, just look at the mad king or various other Targs and Kings of the seperate kingdoms who were awful kings despite being born crown prince! Why was Daemon given the sword by his father?

Because Daemon was a knight, and Daeron was a nerd, and apparently the dynastic implications of this gesture completely eluded the king's uncomplicated mind. Aegon IV didn't actually name Daemon his heir, did he?

[Alester Florent]

And that tradition continues until the War of the Roses. Edward IV wasn't grooms for the throne and hes one of the most underrated English monarchs in history! If he had lived he not Tudor would have set the realm to rights.

After Tudors ascention Henry VIII would be thought of as one of the most brilliant kings to sit the English throne. And one would have to be to dismantle magna carts split from Rome and make the clergy his bitch. Some thing not even Henry I,II or Stephen I could do.

Edward VI, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I were and are their fathers children Elizabeth was the heir he wanted.

I'm not so sure. Edward IV was a great warrior king, arguably England's last great warrior-king, but he was also pretty lazy and succumbed rather too easily to the luxuries of monarchy after fighting so hard to win it. In his first reign he did a good job, but his second was pretty sluggish, and it seems that a lot of the energy which drove the good things to come out of his reign came from those around him - mainly Warwick, but Richard and Hastings to an extent.

I'm also not entirely sure that Edward wasn't "groomed". It's not like he was a nobody: perhaps he wasn't prepared for the kingship exactly, but given who his father was and that he obviously intended to start (or restore) a dynasty, I have no doubt that he made some effort to prepare Edward for rule. Even if not as king per se, the skillset required to succeed at kingship is not that different from that needed to be Lord Protector and Duke of York, at the time.

The parallel with Henry VIII is pretty remarkable really: there's no doubt who Henry's grandfather was. Both were strong, intelligent, charismatic, popular... and having been pushed into a position of great power at a relatively young age struggled their whole lives with self-control. After Henry lost Cromwell, he went downhill very quickly and failed to accomplish much, as Edward did after he lost Warwick.

No doubt had he clung on for three or four more years so that Edward V could succeed at the age of majority, things would have been very different, but I think Edward IV was a busted flush long before he died.

Moreover, while Elizabeth was undoubtedly the most accomplished of Henry's children to the extent neither of the others is in the frame, I think Edward VI had it in him to be a great king, at least the equal of his father. He's one of those might-have-beens, really.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I believe the generally accepted answer is "Bittersteel". Bloodraven and Bittersteel hated each other, and since it seem Bittersteel provided a lot of the impetus for Daemon's rebellion, Bloodraven inevitably ended up on the other side. Even if it is possible that Bloodraven might have sided with Daemon out of sentiment, Bittersteel might well have talked Daemon out of including him in the plot until battle lines were already effectively drawn.

Bloodraven is in an awkward position, like many bastards in Westeros. So long as he has royal protection he's the man, but without that he's not got much going for him. He stands to inherit very little, and being a bit of a freak and feared by those around him, he needs to have status in order to survive, otherwise his enemies will probably make short work of him. So it's imperative that he is the arch-loyalist and nobody can ever call his devotion to the house of Targaryen into question.

Especially if he might otherwise have been expected to side with Daemon (and see also the Dance of the Dragons where the dragonseeds were condemned en masse for betrayal only of some; likewise Daemon and Bittersteel's rebellion casts a shadow over all Aegon's bastards) it's understandable that Bloodraven would become the leading figure in trying to exterminate the Blackfyres purely for reasons of self-preservation.

It's also debatable whether Daemon or Daeron really was the right choice. Daeron was always the safer bet: he was in situ, he had a good proven record, two promising sons to inherit, and although Daemon looked the part the rebellion didn't seem to have a lot behind it other than charisma, ambition from houses slightly lower down the pecking order, and generally upsetting the apple cart for the sake of it. Whatever the truth of the allegations and the precise nature of the personal politics involved, it's difficult to argue that the rebellion was in the best interests of the kingdom. If Bloodraven's loyalty truly was to the realm (highly debatable) then Daeron was, by the time the rebellion happened, likely the better choice.

Bloodraven having two full sisters adds a level to the self preservation aspect, his actions will reflect upon them somewhat; if Brynden was with Daemon and he still lost, then all of Aegon's notable bastards would have fought against Daeron and it might not go to well for Brynden's sisters, who would face disgrace and quick marriage at best, or exile or sent to the silent sisters/Septas.

And Bittersteel gaining power is bad for Brynden and his kin regardless of with whom he sides.