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Leave it to your goat

Mance (BOOK SPOILERS)

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So, the guy they burned at CB.... Was that actually Mance, or a glamoured Rattleshirt like in the book?



I didn't notice a glowing ruby around Mel's neck in the show, and I seem to remember something about Rattleshirt crying out when he was burning and begging for mercy in the book.



I'm kinda skeptical about whether or not they actually killed off Mance or not at this point.


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So, the guy they burned at CB.... Was that actually Mance, or a glamoured Rattleshirt like in the book?

I didn't notice a glowing ruby around Mel's neck in the show, and I seem to remember something about Rattleshirt crying out when he was burning and begging for mercy in the book.

I'm kinda skeptical about whether or not they actually killed off Mance or not at this point.

Was looking for the same clues too. Didn't see anything that could make him Rattleshirt instead of Mance. So I guess it was Mance.. Maybe it isn't necesarry for him to survive.

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If Roose and Ramsey actually flayed him and murdered him the way they describe in the Pink letter then what is the point of paying The Lord of Bones when he has minuscule recognition and worth? It makes sense and paves a road for Tormund to have more screen time, who is a more entertaining facet of source material.

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James Hibberd interviewed Ciaran Hinds and he's definitely dead, he also explains why the show changed the book material to fit TV and killed him off.



My question now becomes is this the actor that JH was referring too pre-show about someone expecting more material and dying early, I feel that it is but do not see if confirmed.


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James Hibberd interviewed Ciaran Hinds and he's definitely dead, he also explains why the show changed the book material to fit TV and killed him off.

My question now becomes is this the actor that JH was referring too pre-show about someone expecting more material and dying early, I feel that it is but do not see if confirmed.

Can you link this interview?

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Where Mance said "This was my home for many years." about Castle Black it made me think it was really him.


I wondered if they were going to have the whole thing be an illusion / glamour but just without Rattleshirt. But if what is said above is true then I guess he's really dead.


Shame.


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Where Mance said "This was my home for many years." about Castle Black it made me think it was really him.

I wondered if they were going to have the whole thing be an illusion / glamour but just without Rattleshirt. But if what is said above is true then I guess he's really dead.

Shame.

Expected to see a close up at rattleshirt and after that a close up on Mel, but since it wasn’t there, I’m pretty sure he’s really dead.

(As was apparently already stated)

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I think that was either Mance or Tormund.



I guess that if it was Mance, we might not get the Pink Letter. Or we just might see some other character filling those shoes. Maybe Tormund will go or maybe it will be Brienne and Podrick saving her.


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It seems like it was him. Just because he went into the fire acting like Mance. If he'd been kicking and screaming and announced he was not the king. I'd think it was rattleshirt.



I'm not sure how I feel about it either way. I mean the glamour was one of the stupider parts of the book IMO. On the other hand I was glad Mance was alive. Still the King who united hundreds of tribes goes on some kind of spying mission. I thought that was a giant step down for him. So maybe it's better if he dies. We shall see.


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I hope Mance is dead, I never liked the glamour thing. However, I think I did see rattleshirt there. When they pan to Tormund I believe Rattleshirt is standing to the right of him. I rewound it on my rewatch yesterday to be sure and there is a man there who is wearing a lot of bones around his neck / shirt area.

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There was nothing to suggest a switch. Rattleshirt isn't even at castle black. I assume with that goes the freeing of Jeyne/arya by mance and the spear wives.

I don't think we're even going to get Jeyne/Arya.

Plus, he's taking Sansa to Winterfell. Unless you think he conspired with Roose to give him a fake Arya just so he can invade (with a couple dozen men!) a week later and put Sansa in his place, it's pretty obvious that he's planning to give Roose a real Sansa.

This actually makes more sense for LF (if you assume that, in the TV version, he doesn't need Sansa for the Harry the Heir plot to solidify his hold on the Vale). From his point of view, there's only three things that can happen. (1) Stannis wins, Sansa thanks him for saving her from the evil Boltons who were going to force her, the only living Stark, to marry a monster, (2) Stannis loses, Sansa goes through with the marriage, and plays Ramsay the way Margy is playing Tommen, or (3) Stannis loses, Sansa marries Ramsay and fails to play him the way Margy failed to play Joffrey so she conspires with LF to bump him off the way the Tyrells did with Joffrey. Win, win, or win; he ends up with his puppet ruling in Winterfell no matter what (while he has years to figure out how to turn his temporary regency in the Vale into something permanent).

And he should have no trouble selling it to Sansa. Sure, she won't be overjoyed at marrying Robb's murderer's son, but LF is asking her to be just like the Tyrells, the only people she met in Winterfell who she liked or respected, and presenting her a way to act smart and devious without feeling evil, and, best of all, all 3 possible results count as revenge on Roose.

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Firstly Rattleshirt isn't at Castle Black, and Mel would have alluded to there being an alternative use for Mance if they intended on keeping him, people wouldn't buy any swapping of bodies unless Mance is revealed to be a faceless man or Mel plans to resurrect his burnt corpse. They can't overplay the "magic" card.

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He's totally dead, and good riddance. I have zero patience for that Polyjuice Potion/Barty Crouch shit

I do think book!Mance joined the Boltons and wrote the Pink Letter, but I don't see the honorable and likeable show version doing that anyway

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It seems like it was him. Just because he went into the fire acting like Mance. If he'd been kicking and screaming and announced he was not the king. I'd think it was rattleshirt.

I'm not sure how I feel about it either way. I mean the glamour was one of the stupider parts of the book IMO. On the other hand I was glad Mance was alive. Still the King who united hundreds of tribes goes on some kind of spying mission. I thought that was a giant step down for him. So maybe it's better if he dies. We shall see.

This is what made me think it was Mance. He died with far too much dignity, and was just far too "Mance-y" in all his mannerisms (Mance-erisms? Geddit? Yeah? I... I'll see myself out). Everything he did and said was exactly as Mance would, and I can't see anyone choosing to die in that way for someone else, even their king. Maybe Tormund, but I think they'll keep him because they built up a lot around him in the last two seasons. And even then, I think even the best person in the world would at least say "wait no please stop!" in their final moments.

There was that meaningful look between Mance and Tormund... so maybe there's a smaaalll chance they were glamouring each other, but it's more likely that that was just Mance telling Tormund to continue his work. I reckon it'll be Tormund who goes to WF, or at least sends the wildling girls, if they even do that storyline at all.

Plus, I think they introduced enough confusion around the Wall storyline with Mel not being cold and asking if Jon is a virgin etc; I think it'd be one more bit of magic to try and explain to Unsullied.

Basically, RIP Mance :'(

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It would be a massive taint on Mance's character if he consented with a plan to burn somebody else in his place after that conversation with Jon. It also really ruins that moment of wildling mourning and Jon making a stand if that wasn't Mance. That bait and switch would feel really bad if the show pulled it, even more so since Rattleshirt hasn't been built up as a villain.



Further, the Mance of the show isn't a trickster bard who scampers around in crypts. Show Mance moves slow. Mance is one of the most honest characters in the show. You would never send show Mance to infiltrate Winterfell.



And Mance acted just like Mance in the burning scene. Maybe one of his lieutenants could have impersonated Mance effectively, but that seems kind of doubtful.


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