nikstar3 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I have a tendency to love characters everyone hates, i e Roose, Tywin, Stannis, and Bittersteel as well. I don't think everybody hates them. Stannis is awesome. Tywin is a bit one-dimensional for my taste, but after the way they handled him in the show, I took a certain liking to him too. Roose is well... creepy, but not really all that hateable. Bittersteel just strikes me as a real force of nature. I'd like to read a story by Martin featuring him. And I'd really love to get into his head. As much as I don't like Bittersteel, that's a fact. It would be interesting to read something featuring him... although it won't make me like him better I think :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmancampidori Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Did Bloodraven really fail? Because I've counted exactly 0 Blackfyre Kings since those wars started, and several Targaryen Kings. Seems Bloodraven succeeded to me If I did nothing but stab cancer patients for a few decades, then my nephew goes on to cure cancer, it doesn't mean I suceeded in curing cancer. Hell, I would just make it worse because there would be fewer patients to do studies on. Bloodraven didn't suceed in fighting the Blackfyres(Except for murdering the founder of their house, by baiting him by attacking his children) He only aggravated the problem, weakened the monarchy of Westeros and made people flock to the Blackfyres side. Maekar is the man responsible for defeating the Blackfyres. Something I respect him for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell_like_Squirrel Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I don't think everybody hates them. Stannis is awesome. Tywin is a bit one-dimensional for my taste, but after the way they handled him in the show, I took a certain liking to him too. Roose is well... creepy, but not really all that hateable. As much as I don't like Bittersteel, that's a fact. It would be interesting to read something featuring him... although it won't make me like him better I think :D That's certainly a possibility lol. I remember being so excited to meet Stannis at the beginning of ACOK, and then got creeped out/turned off by his prologue chapter appearance. Took me all of ASOS to start liking him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 If I did nothing but stab cancer patients for a few decades, then my nephew goes on to cure cancer, it doesn't mean I suceeded in curing cancer.Hell, I would just make it worse because there would be fewer patients to do studies on. Bloodraven didn't suceed in fighting the Blackfyres(Except for murdering the founder of their house, by baiting him by attacking his children) He only aggravated the problem, weakened the monarchy of Westeros and made people flock to the Blackfyres side. Maekar is the man responsible for defeating the Blackfyres.Something I respect him for.But he never stabbed sick people, he stopped the rebellion in its tracks, and took steps to prevent others, so yeah, bloodraven>bittersteel/bastardfyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 If I did nothing but stab cancer patients for a few decades, then my nephew goes on to cure cancer, it doesn't mean I suceeded in curing cancer.Hell, I would just make it worse because there would be fewer patients to do studies on. Bloodraven didn't suceed in fighting the Blackfyres(Except for murdering the founder of their house, by baiting him by attacking his children) He only aggravated the problem, weakened the monarchy of Westeros and made people flock to the Blackfyres side. Maekar is the man responsible for defeating the Blackfyres.Something I respect him for....what? He was a key part in stopping the first Bf rebellion.His spies and him prevented a second oneWe know he watched the BF and Bittersteel carefully in their exileDon't know enough about 3 & 4.I wasn't saying that he single handedly defeated the Blackfyre's. But he certainly did not fail, since his goal was preventing the Blackfyre's from claiming the throne. Which they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmancampidori Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 ...what? He was a key part in stopping the first Bf rebellion.His spies and him prevented a second oneWe know he watched the BF and Bittersteel carefully in their exileDon't know enough about 3 & 4.I wasn't saying that he single handedly defeated the Blackfyre's. But he certainly did not fail, since his goal was preventing the Blackfyre's from claiming the throne. Which they didn't.The thing is however, is that during his time in office he ended up helping the Blackfyres more then he could ever hurt them. He weakened the monarchy, and took complete control of it while making no effort to hide it. He took no action when it came to stopping the Ironborn, and turned Westeros in to a police state to stop the Blackfyres from gaining power. All his actions suceeded in doing, was turn the Blackfyre cause in to a single rebel house that almost won and would soon be forgotten. To a cause that would lead to generations of constant strife which would eventually weaken House Targaryen to the point, where they were disposed by House Baratheon. Sure Bloodraven helped stop the 1st and 2nd Blackfyre rebellions. Probably the 3rd too, if what we have to go on is any indication. However, his actions lead to every single one, and yes that includes the 1st one. Its entirly possible Bloodraven fabricated the evidence. Bloodravens policies were ineffective, and without Maekar the Targaryen dynasty would have fallen during the rebellions. Bittersteel died, with a sword in his hand and a curse on his lips. Bloodraven is still alive, having caused countless deaths, and his actions ending with the fall of House Targaryen. In this way, Bloodraven did not suceed. He failed to keep House Targaryen in power, despite his best efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmancampidori Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 But he never stabbed sick people, he stopped the rebellion in its tracks, and took steps to prevent others, so yeah, bloodraven>bittersteel/bastardfyre He murdered children to kill his half-brother. He ignored the Greyjoys killing thousands in the West, to continue his fued with Bittersteel(Who at the time was in no position to continue the war) He took over the monarchy, and made no attempt to hide it. He solidifyed the Cause of the Blackfyres through constant brutality so that they would never surrender. Bloodraven stopped rebellions, but he caused every last one of them. These rebellions eventually weakened House Targaryen so much, that they were overthrown by House Baratheon. I understand Bittersteels reasons for supporting Daemon in the first rebellion, for every rebellion afterwards I still understand his motives. He was trying to avenge his murdered brother, and his family in the only way he could. War. For that I respect him, along with the fact he probably built the best fighting force on Planetos against all odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 He's a cross between Victorian and Renly, I say renly because he knew he was wrong when he made Daemon go after the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPathera Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 More regretful for me is that Bittersteel's manipulations led to all bastards having society view them as inherently traitorous. After all, the Blackfyre Rebellions appear to be a huge aesop on how legitimizing a bastard will always end badly because of one attempted coup led by a legitimized bastard and his children. I have a feeling that Bittersteel simply wanted the Blackfyre's on the throne so that he could be the "man behind the man". Bittersteel was beaten to the spot of hand of the king by Bloodraven and so he convinced Daemon Blackfyre to rebel while there was a strong portion of the population that may support him. Once the Blackfyres were the new kings, Bittersteel would serve as Hand of the King and wield true power over the 7 Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed Lannister Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Bittersteel was the epitome of a loyal and stalwart knight to the cause of House Blackfyre despite all the losses he suffered in the rebellions he was part. the seeds for the blackfyre rising was not just about a greed for power as many potray but rather due to old grievances of many Noble houses against the dornish in centuries of war before the unification of the seven kingdoms under Daeron II and Daeron II extremely generous terms to the dornish regarding their laws,fealty,taxes when Dorne was made part of the seven Kingdoms. Many rose for Daemon I Blackfyre because they analyzed and saw Daemon as the better king than Daeron II.... chief amongst the greatest supporters being Bittersteel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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