Tyrion's Greyscale Immunization

[LmL]

The books are pretty sure that Garin's curse is greyscale. Let me remind you.

"We'd do well not to breathe the fog either," said Haldon. "Garin's Curse is all about us."

The only way not to breathe the fog is not to breathe. "Garin's Curse is only greyscale," said Tyrion. The curse was oft seen in children, especially in damp, cold climes. The afflicted flesh stiffened, calcified, and cracked, though the dwarf had read that greyscale's progress could be stayed by limes, mustard poultices, and scalding-hot baths (the maesters said) or by prayer, sacrifice, and fasting (the septons insisted). Then the disease passed, leaving its young victims disfigured but alive. Maesters and septons alike agreed that children marked by greyscale could never be touched by the rarer mortal form of the affliction, nor by its terrible swift cousin, the grey plague. "Damp is said to be the culprit," he said. "Foul humors in the air. Not curses."

"The conquerors did not believe either, Hugor Hill," said Ysilla. "The men of Volantis and Valyria hung Garin in a golden cage and made mock as he called upon his Mother to destroy them. But in the night the waters rose and drowned them, and from that day to this they have not rested. They are down there still beneath the water, they who were once the lords of fire. Their cold breath rises from the murk to make these fogs, and their flesh has turned as stony as their hearts."

ADWD, Tyrion V

It's interesting that there are perceived to be three "versions" of greyscale-related disease: the regular greyscale that leaves people disfigured but not dead, the mortal version, and the grey plague, whatever that is. Which one does Jon Con have? I assume not the mortal version, because the stone men who gave it to him aren't dead... unless he got it from the water, if that is even possible. It seem like for a greyscale epidemic to be really serious, it would have to be the mortal kind - otherwise it's just an outbreak of ugliness, not really a catastrophe. I suspect the maesters may be wrong here, and that the wildlings know what they are talking about - meaning that the two forms of actual greyscale (excluding the grey plague for the moment) may actually not be different. Val thinks Shireen's greyscale can reawaken, and she refers to Shireen as dead, implying the more serious kind. I wonder what Martin is trying to do here with the idea of separate strains and the idea that you can become immune to the worse kind through exposure to the less bad variety.

[Modesty Lannister]

It's interesting that there are perceived to be three "versions" of greyscale-related disease: the regular greyscale that leaves people disfigured but not dead, the mortal version, and the grey plague, whatever that is. Which one does Jon Con have? I assume not the mortal version, because the stone men who gave it to him aren't dead... unless he got it from the water, if that is even possible. It seem like for a greyscale epidemic to be really serious, it would have to be the mortal kind - otherwise it's just an outbreak of ugliness, not really a catastrophe. I suspect the maesters may be wrong here, and that the wildlings know what they are talking about - meaning that the two forms of actual greyscale (excluding the grey plague for the moment) may actually not be different. Val thinks Shireen's greyscale can reawaken, and she refers to Shireen as dead, implying the more serious kind. I wonder what Martin is trying to do here with the idea of separate strains and the idea that you can become immune to the worse kind through exposure to the less bad variety.

There is only one greyscale. There are no three types of it. These are stages of the disease. The books tell us that it can be stopped in children, but not adults. As you said, Val disagrees. There are so many quotes, you can take your pick. Garin's curse obviously infects the water. That is one of the reasons I have been advocating that the real danger is coming from the water.

[Mithras]

There is only one greyscale. There are no three types of it. These are stages of the disease. The books tell us that it can be stopped in children, but not adults. As you said, Val disagrees. There are so many quotes, you can take your pick. Garin's curse obviously infects the water. That is one of the reasons I have been advocating that the real danger is coming from the water.

Grey plague is said to be the "swifter cousin" of greyscale in the text. People with greyscale can live for a decade whereas grey plague kills very fast. So, these are two different types of greyscale, not stages of the same disease.

[Modesty Lannister]

Grey plague is said to be the "swifter cousin" of greyscale in the text. People with greyscale can live for a decade whereas grey plague kills very fast. So, these are two different types of greyscale, not stages of the same disease.

Grey plague is greyscale of epidemic proportions. So, we are talking about the same thing using different approach to it. Anyhow, even if we agree to call them two types of the same disease, there are two not three types of it.

[avernite]

It may be there are two strains, who knows.

There seems to be a children/adults distinction, same as for several real diseases (e.g. chickenpox), where children can usually survive but adults can't. If limes (and other fruits) are involved in saving children from it, it makes sense that wildlings are much more likely to just die from it (though that counts for most diseases, an epidemic among the wildlings is tough but being ill is a much surer deathsentence).

Grey plague may also be an airborne cousin. Maybe usual greyscale is a skin infection, and by the time it reaches the lungs you're way past the stage anyone will be infected by you, while grey plague is a lung-based infection that spreads by sneezing and coughing.

[imp-ty]

Consider plague aka Black Death caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis. 3 types of "plague" with differing severity are all caused by the same critter. Pneumonic is airborne whereas bubonic was spread by fleas.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague

I don't usually quote wiki, but this article gets the point across.

[Armstark]

I think you are right that Tyrion somehow got immunized against greyscale and I believe I know how it came to be:

It was another turtle, a horned turtle of enormous size, its dark green shell mottled with brown and overgrown with water moss and crusty black river molluscs. It raised its head and bellowed, a deep-throated thrumming roar louder than any warhorn that Tyrion had ever heard. "We are blessed," Ysilla was crying loudly, as tears streamed down her face. "We are blessed, we are blessed."

Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion … but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. "What was the cause of all that noise?" the Halfmaester asked.

Connington wasn't on deck to receive the blessing and neither was Haldon which doesn't bode well for him.

[LmL]

^^^ that's a terrific find! Ysillamis crying, overwhelmed. It's a big deal to the Rhoynar.

[Lord Neddard Stark]

2 words... Plot Armour

[Woman of War]

Any character who makes it through more than two books is this world must be heavily protected by plot armor.

Otherwise we would not have even one protagonist who survives long enough so we could develop any emotions for him or her.

This would hardly be a compelling story if there were no characters for us to get invested in throughout all the books, if the protagonists all were exchanged after ten chapters.

So: plot armor for the main characters is needed, be they Tyrion, Dany, Arya or whoever. Plot armor or hanging around in some remote boring place off screen.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Tyrion is immune to greyscale because he is a Lannister, of course. Have we ever heard of a Lannister dying of greyscale? Casterly Rock itself must be magical - one who is born beneath the Rock cannot be turned to stone. It is known.

It's just like ... Bran not getting frostbit toes.

[Dire Dawg]

Tyrion is immune to greyscale because he is a Lannister, of course. Have we ever heard of a Lannister dying of greyscale? Casterly Rock itself must be magical - one who is born beneath the Rock cannot be turned to stone. It is known.

It's just like ... Bran not getting frostbit toes.

Gold doesn't tarnish :)

[Starlink]

Plot armor and possible long time effects. It would be delicious to watch the Imp turn to stone.

Best theory ever

[Lord Wraith]

Its a bit crackpotish by I remember reading that the Shrouded Lord could have been Gerion Lannister. After all the doesn't he decide who gets grayscale and who doesn't??

[Little Bird of Varys]

Armor plot and be the favorite character of GRRM make miracles.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Greyscale reminds me a lot of the different versions of the herpes virus, especially varicella. Catch it as a child and it's usually non-fatal, there is a small chance of some scarring though it's not common. Get it as an adult, however, and it can cause a lot of very serious symptoms, including nerve damage, and can be lethal. This, of course, reminds me of how one of the early symptoms of grayscale is numbness in the extremities.

I would not be surprised at all to find out that grayscale was a genetically engineered herpes virus of some type.