Rioting in Baltimore...

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Larry, said it way better than I could have.

CelticBrennus, Summah etc, re: mom & pop business as part of a community.

Fair enough, I'll admit most of these businesses are probably not owned by members of the neighborhoods they serve. My point was in response to the "rioters are only damaging their own community" line... Which (in Ser Scots defense) may be true enough, to an extent. At least where I live, the people operating these business are de facto members of the community by dint of spending considerable portions of their lives here.

But again, it must be said, we should be addressing the causes of these riots, not the effects.

That's the whole debate though...what's the cause? I agree with Larry saying these rioters aren't making a social message and are basically opportunists. So why try to connect them with your feelings about institutional racism and police brutality as a cause of the riots. And why is race an issue here anyway? This is a mostly black city with a black mayor, police chief, and a diverse police department. But white people are still the problem!? Come on guys...

[Shryke]

That's the whole debate though...what's the cause? I agree with Larry saying these rioters aren't making a social message and are basically opportunists. So why try to connect them with your feelings about institutional racism and police brutality as a cause of the riots.

Because riots don't just appear out of nowhere. There's a reason the riots happened in the poorer areas of Baltimore after a black man was arrested for no reason and then murdered by the BPD and not in some random other part of the US.

And why is race an issue here anyway? This is a mostly black city with a black mayor, police chief, and a diverse police department. But white people are still the problem!? Come on guys...

Because that's what even a cursory glance on any of the study of the amreican justice system shows. Of course it's about race. This is America man.

[all swedes are racist]

Fuck it, nevermind

[Frey Kings]

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Because riots don't just appear out of nowhere. There's a reason the riots happened in the poorer areas of Baltimore after a black man was arrested for no reason and then murdered by the BPD and not in some random other part of the US.

Because that's what even a cursory glance on any of the study of the amreican justice system shows. Of course it's about race. This is America man.

Well yes, they don't appear out of nowhere. Usually there is some instigation to get the people amped up. In this case, the activity on social media by the teens. The Gray family called for peace and there were plenty of peaceful protesters. Then two different types show up, the instigators and the opportunists. The latter two types aren't there for Gray, for justice, or a cause. To quote step brothers, they're here to fuck shit up.

As to the second part of your post, I think it's hard to blame whitey here. Half the police department is African American. Not to mention the other leaders I previously mentioned. Once again, a narrative is being pushed that is not only false but unhealthy for every city in America.

[all swedes are racist]

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

Um, what problems?

[Wise Fool]

Larry, how are the riots a symptom? You just said they are opportunists who aren't trying to make a deep social message...

These rioters don't give a shit about Gray. Period. And we should be outraged at both what happened to Gray and the rioters. Trying to connect the two is ludicrous man. Society is not to blame for the looters, the looters are to blame.

I agree.

[Frey Kings]

Um, what problems?

Fill in the blank> _____ problem(s)

[awesome possum]

Larry, how are the riots a symptom?

They're symptoms of a pot that's starting to boil over. Again. As Summah mentioned, the area where Gray lived is among the poorest and more crime-ridden in Baltimore. According to a Justice Policy Institute report, 5% of the people from Gray's neighborhood are in state prison. That's 458 out of around 9000 people who live in the area.

23 years ago I lived in the Dorie Miller Housing Projects, one of the poorest parts of Gary, Indiana. I lived in that pot, watching it simmer. The people who live in those places are angry. They live in absolute dirt poverty, where drugs and drug dealers plague their neighborhoods, gangs fight a never ending war that may erupt into a battle at any moment, and the police are more likely to rob you than the crackhead. There's no real way out unless you're lucky, a genius, or a phenomenal athlete. After just two years of living there I was angry, full of anger. Yeah I was also a hormone-ridden 13-year-old but every day when I woke up in that place I woke up hating the world. The whole wide world and everyone in it who had it better than me. It took years for that hate to die down in my heart, and in some ways it never died.

23 years ago this month I watched that boil over both in Los Angeles and watched it start to boil outside my window. I still believe that my dad sitting on our front stoop, loaded rifle in his lap and case of Stroh's sitting next to him, was the only thing that kept my family safe that night. That was 23 years ago and while my life has gotten considerably better, life in ghettos like Dorie Miller has not.

Those places are already full of simmering discontent. Add to that the very public spate of unarmed black men being murdered by police all throughout the country. Those are your symptoms.

And why is race an issue here anyway?

28% of the residents inside the city of Baltimore are white but they make up 48% of the police force. Gee, I wonder. Why is race an issue here anyway?

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

Are you for real?

[Durckad]

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

Considering white people still make up 77.7% of the population, a House that is almost 80% white and a Senate that is over 90% white, I think you'll have plenty of time to finish off your dystopian sci-fi tetralogy 'Brown People Problems' before it gets relegated to the dustbin of failed, what-if future predictions (a la the Eugenics Wars of the 90's and the goddamn hoverboard that we were supposed to have this year!)

[Seli]

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

The people with the historical weight of power and privilege in society behind them. The narrative about why the poor are poor and criminals are criminal won't change simply because a slight demographic change.

[Shryke]

Well yes, they don't appear out of nowhere. Usually there is some instigation to get the people amped up. In this case, the activity on social media by the teens. The Gray family called for peace and there were plenty of peaceful protesters. Then two different types show up, the instigators and the opportunists. The latter two types aren't there for Gray, for justice, or a cause. To quote step brothers, they're here to fuck shit up.

No, in this case the instigation is the same event I already mentioned, the murder of Freddie Gray by the police. There is a reason this shit popped up on social media now and in this place and not 3 weeks ago in some other city or suburb.

As to the second part of your post, I think it's hard to blame whitey here. Half the police department is African American. Not to mention the other leaders I previously mentioned. Once again, a narrative is being pushed that is not only false but unhealthy for every city in America.

That narrative is not being pushed, it's just being seen. Yup, it's right there.

You seem to think the fact that the police department is half black somehow constitutes an actual point. The racial makeup of the department is not the relevant factor, the racial bias it displays is. And the BPD is racist as fuck.

Really, this comes back to your need to frame this as "blame whitey". It just reveals that this is what this is really about to you. Fear that somehow you might be culpable in some way. That this is about you. The reality is, no one is blaming whitey. You are the only one bringing that shit up. This isn't about blaming whitey, it's about what's being done by the police (among others) to black people. It's about systematic discrimination. It's about racism.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

They're symptoms of a pot that's starting to boil over. Again. As Summah mentioned, the area where Gray lived is among the poorest and more crime-ridden in Baltimore. According to a Justice Policy Institute report, 5% of the people from Gray's neighborhood are in state prison. That's 458 out of around 9000 people who live in the area.

23 years ago I lived in the Dorie Miller Housing Projects, one of the poorest parts of Gary, Indiana. I lived in that pot, watching it simmer. The people who live in those places are angry. They live in absolute dirt poverty, where drugs and drug dealers plague their neighborhoods, gangs fight a never ending war that may erupt into a battle at any moment, and the police are more likely to rob you than the crackhead. There's no real way out unless you're lucky, a genius, or a phenomenal athlete. After just two years of living there I was angry, full of anger. Yeah I was also a hormone-ridden 13-year-old but every day when I woke up in that place I woke up hating the world. The whole wide world and everyone in it who had it better than me. It took years for that hate to die down in my heart, and in some ways it never died.

23 years ago this month I watched that boil over both in Los Angeles and watched it start to boil outside my window. I still believe that my dad sitting on our front stoop, loaded rifle in his lap and case of Stroh's sitting next to him, was the only thing that kept my family safe that night. That was 23 years ago and while my life has gotten considerably better, life in ghettos like Dorie Miller has not.

Those places are already full of simmering discontent. Add to that the very public spate of unarmed black men being murdered by police all throughout the country. Those are your symptoms.

28% of the residents inside the city of Baltimore are white but they make up 48% of the police force. Gee, I wonder. Why is race an issue here anyway?

Are you for real?

Hey AP, I hate you had to endure that. By your own description it sounds horrible. I can understand how someone in that position would hate the world and everyone that was better off. But the world and everyone who had it better than you at that time weren't responsible for you and your family being in that position. I'd be curious as to what circumstances contributed to your family living there.

As to the percentage of white officers, are you saying that 48% is to many? I get you still think it's unproportional, but that seems lower if compared to similar cities.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

No, in this case the instigation is the same event I already mentioned, the murder of Freddie Gray by the police. There is a reason this shit popped up on social media now and in this place and not 3 weeks ago in some other city or suburb.

That narrative is not being pushed, it's just being seen. Yup, it's right there.

You seem to think the fact that the police department is half black somehow constitutes an actual point. The racial makeup of the department is not the relevant factor, the racial bias it displays is. And the BPD is racist as fuck.

Really, this comes back to your need to frame this as "blame whitey". It just reveals that this is what this is really about to you. Fear that somehow you might be culpable in some way. That this is about you. The reality is, no one is blaming whitey. You are the only one bringing that shit up. This isn't about blaming whitey, it's about what's being done by the police (among others) to black people. It's about systematic discrimination. It's about racism.

Um no, the instigation isn't the death Freddy Gray. You believe the guys burning the CVS did that for Gray? They raid the check cashing business for Freddy? No, the instigators were in there saying the same dribble your saying about discrimination and racism, inciting the opportunists. There where stand up citizens who were protesting peacefully and legally. Standing between the rowdy folk and the police. Those were the ones out there for Gray and justice. The others were not and they are two different people with two different motivations. Don't try to knit them together.

The fact that the police force is half black is a huge point. The mayor and police chief are also. So they're racist, really? Or is the 48% just SO racist that they cancel out the other half? And the black mayor and chief just roll with all this racial bias? Come on man, you can do better than that.

And sorry bud, I'm not the one framing this as blame whitey. Literally one sentence before you accuse me of such, you yourself say the police department is racist! Every person that they interview on the street is making this a black/white thing. I thought it was about police officers, that's why I questioned the injection of race earlier. If you believe it's systemic discrimination, let's not forget, this is a city with a lot of black people in power. A lot of democrats in power. If anything systemic liberal policy is the issue in Baltimore. Yes, all of them!

[Solmyr]

10 pages later none of the people, who expressed opinions in support of the rioters, have answered why they aren't rioting themselves, if rioting is indeed what is needed.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I can't trust anyone who doesn't see an issue when a demographic can be 28% of a city's population but 48% of that city's police force.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

10 pages later none of the people, who expressed opinions in support of the rioters, have answered why they aren't rioting themselves, if rioting is indeed what is needed.

Has anyone really said rioting is what's needed? Or have people said that seems to be the last recourse for those who would riot? Because those are very different statements.

[Commodore]

a black man is at far more risk of being killed by another black man than a cop, yet no rioting when the former happens

[Roose Seal]

Going through a lot of these posts and in one way or another, the term White America is being thrown around. I find this odd because the shifts in the demographics of this country, if they are continuing the same pattern currently, are that Whites will be a minority sooner rather than later. Who will point the finger at our problems then? hmmmm

yes because being the numerical minority totally prevents you from having any sort of power, that's why the 1% richest totally feel oppressed by the 99%.

a black man is at far more risk of being killed by another black man than a cop, yet no rioting when the former happens

get the hell out of here with that tired-ass argument

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/28559-the-distorted-exaggeration-of-black-on-black-crime-ignores-much-of-america-s-criminality

[Shryke]

Um no, the instigation isn't the death Freddy Gray. You believe the guys burning the CVS did that for Gray? They raid the check cashing business for Freddy? No, the instigators were in there saying the same dribble your saying about discrimination and racism, inciting the opportunists. There where stand up citizens who were protesting peacefully and legally. Standing between the rowdy folk and the police. Those were the ones out there for Gray and justice. The others were not and they are two different people with two different motivations. Don't try to knit them together.

Then why did they occur now in Baltimore?

I'm not knitting anything together. I'm seeing two things stuck together and going "Yeah, there they are". And I'm seeing you shoving your head in the sand.

The fact that the police force is half black is a huge point. The mayor and police chief are also. So they're racist, really? Or is the 48% just SO racist that they cancel out the other half? And the black mayor and chief just roll with all this racial bias? Come on man, you can do better than that.

I am doing better then this. And better then you too. I at least understand the idea of systematic racism and that you don't have to be white to take part in the system and it's racism. One would think this would be obvious, but you still see this silly argument trotted out time and time again.

I mean seriously, the fact that you typed this out:

And sorry bud, I'm not the one framing this as blame whitey. Literally one sentence before you accuse me of such, you yourself say the police department is racist!

displays a staggering lack of understanding of anything you are desperately trying and failing to discuss.

The BPD is racist =/= blame whitey

If anything systemic liberal policy is the issue in Baltimore.

Of course it is sweetums. Of course it is.