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JaimetheConciliator

The show will skip 'for the watch'

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With the changes in Jon's character (likeable badass who won huge swordfights against other badasses rather than just sitting on top of a tower flinging arrows into the darkness) and in Thorne's (they're now bff), there's no set-up at all for GRRM's irritating cliffhanger nonsense.



For The Watch was borne of GRRM's days in television, where he learned the value of a good cliffhanger. It was never going to be permanent. All signs now point to Ser Alliser and Jon respecting and helping each other. There's a mutual understanding between them about what's best for the NW and the realm.



If Bowen Marsh were to eventually get up to some kind of plot, he'd at least have been given a few lines by now. A lot of them actually, and in the confidence of Slynt and/or Thorne.


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Pretty much everyone thinks Ollie is going to do the stabbing

this.

maybe Thorne won't be involved but then was he involved in the books?

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this.

maybe Thorne won't be involved but then was he involved in the books?

Not directly, but some people suspect him of foul play, just because he's...well, Thorne

Maybe Brian the Ginger will take on Marsh's role. "Sure, get the ginger to dig the latrine, haha, hilarious! Who's laughing now, Snow?!"

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Was Marsh a main character at this point in the books? I'm pretty sure his role came later, when Jon (showing great wisdom) appointed him First Steward. Thorne was out ranging at the time of for the watch IIRC, plus the show (from the trailers) appears to have Jon lead a ranging to Hardhome, which could well piss off the new First Ranger anyway.


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I don't know why you think Alliser and Jon are friends, thats not what is in the show. The last time they spoke together Thorne said I'll go on hating you and you'll go on hating me. Jon appointed him first ranger and he stepped aside for them to take Slynt, but he did the same in the book. If Jon sends him out on a ranging I suspect he will give the same mini speech.


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I agree with the OP. After I saw the title of episode 8 was confirmed, I began to doubt the stabbing was going to happen. Jon Snow's plot is going beyond what it was in ADWD if the title is any indication, without the stabbing. Unless they completely rearrange events (which is possible) I think it is more likely they skip the stabbing (as we knew it in the books) and keep the plot moving forward without any down time for recuperation/wolf warging (which would be expensive and confusing if not done well) time.



I guess, I'm saying, I think they'll treat Jon like how they've treated Sansa this season: they've completely changed Sansa's story to make the plot more concise and move faster, and they can do the same to Jon.



I don't know how they're going to do a betrayal/AA Reborn reveal without the stabbing, but I also don't know how they are going to put Sansa's story back on track either. But I have no doubt they will do it, in someway that is very different from the books, but leads to the same end game.


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First Builder Yarwick may be the one to stab him.But the whole Jon/Ser Alliser "mutual respect" thing will need to die when Stannis leave the Wall.Possibly with something like "Your King can't protect now,bastard"

Perhaps, but I think Throne saw Jon in a new light after being named first ranger.

"He is gonna make me look bad by delegating me to latrine duty that evil bastard."

--"I name you first ranger"

"We'll maybe he isn't that much of a bastard after all"....

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They are definitely setting up some major conflict. It may even become physical and involve stabbing but I don't see the show ending the season with the cliffhanger that ended in the last book. The show is not following the fake outs found in the books.


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I definitely don't feel like they are going to skip Jon's assignation. In fact they have easily been setting it up as such that Jon does have enemies at the Wall. And what appears like him going to Hardhome one can easily think he will come back to the Wall with more bitterness towards him.


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I very much doubt it. That would be a huge change. One they have no reason whatsoever to make. I mean, in Sansa's case they were driven by the desire to streamline the story. Changing Jon's storyline in such a crucial way would have no such upsides and it seems highly probable it would completely mess up his character development and what's far more important to the show creators, the show would lose a very dramatic, shocking scene.



IMHO he gets stabbed for the disastrous mission to Hardhome by either Ser Alliser + Olly + extras or by only Olly + extras.


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I don't know why you think Alliser and Jon are friends, thats not what is in the show. The last time they spoke together Thorne said I'll go on hating you and you'll go on hating me. Jon appointed him first ranger and he stepped aside for them to take Slynt, but he did the same in the book. If Jon sends him out on a ranging I suspect he will give the same mini speech.

I dunno, I did think there was a tiny moment of respect between the two in the show when Jon appointed him First Ranger. Thorne was clearly expecting Jon to punish him, but when he didn't I felt there was a certain understanding. I think they've been slowly trying to make Thorne less cartoonishly cruel, more sympathetic. They'll never be friends, and they'll certainly butt heads, but I don't think we'll see it ever be as bad as it was before.

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Oh sweet summer child, the fact that Alliser Thorne is being made more "friendly" kinda confirms that he's going to be involved in the stabbing. He may start to like Jon but he disagrees with his decisions on the wildlings, hence "For the Watch".

Bowen Marsh was also friendly with Jon in ADWD, they disagreed on things but he never said a thing to Jon until the last moment.

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