King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well, he hasn't formally taken the throne of the North. There's no crown, no subjects outside of Jojen and Meera. At best I'd say he currently retains his title of prince, but really, this is all a matter of super-semantics. I'd say he's in a similar spot to Viserys. Was Viserys ever king? -And I always took the Bear Island thing as an act of defiance in the wake of Robb Stark's murder. A way of saying they weren't just going to go turncoat on the memory of the Starks because they had fallen. Viserys was crowned by his mother on Dragonstone and is recognized by Daenerys as King. He may not have been the King on the Iron Throne but he was King. Bran is thought to be dead and Robb's will declares someone else his heir. Bran has not been crowned, he is not King It would be the same as Jon, Jon is Rhaegar's true born oldest living son so he SHOULD be King, but he is not known and has not been crowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 On page 1 I said that the Mormonts were referring to Jon and not Bran, to which someone responded simply "No" without providing any reasoning. I should not have to argue in favor of the logical point, if you are going to argue in favor of something else you should be providing the reasons, however I will do so anyway. Maege Mormont knows the contents of Robbs will and as evidenced by the movements of the Mormonts has probably been in contact with her daughters. The Mormonts unlike the Manderlys would not have known about Bran and Rickon being alive, so all they have is Robbs will naming Jon his heir and legitimizing him as a Stark. So please explain to me why the Mormonts would be talking about someone they think is dead instead of someone the will they know about names as their king? As to Manderlys and Glover, again, since Manderly is going after Rickon, what would make us think that they consider Bran their king? If they have a Stark king it would be Rickon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 On page 1 I said that the Mormonts were referring to Jon and not Bran, to which someone responded simply "No" without providing any reasoning. I should not have to argue in favor of the logical point, if you are going to argue in favor of something else you should be providing the reasons, however I will do so anyway. Maege Mormont knows the contents of Robbs will and as evidenced by the movements of the Mormonts has probably been in contact with her daughters. The Mormonts unlike the Manderlys would not have known about Bran and Rickon being alive, so all they have is Robbs will naming Jon his heir and legitimizing him as a Stark. So please explain to me why the Mormonts would be talking about someone they think is dead instead of someone the will they know about names as their king? As to Manderlys and Glover, again, since Manderly is going after Rickon, what would make us think that they consider Bran their king? If they have a Stark king it would be Rickon. If we're speaking technically, Robb's will names Jon as his heir but technically Jon can't inherit because of his vows to the Night's Watch. No doubt the Will includes terms that would free Jon of his vows like Robb and Catelyn discussed but that depends on if the Night's Watch agrees. If the Night's Watch does not agree Jon would remain a sworn brother and Bran would be King in the North. Until we know the full contents of Robb's letter and because we as readers know that Bran (and his heir, Rickon) are still alive, Bran is the King in the North. Jon's claim is based on guesswork and assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 If we're speaking technically, Robb's will names Jon as his heir but technically Jon can't inherit because of his vows to the Night's Watch. No doubt the Will includes terms that would free Jon of his vows like Robb and Catelyn discussed but that depends on if the Night's Watch agrees. If the Night's Watch does not agree Jon would remain a sworn brother and Bran would be King in the North. Until we know the full contents of Robb's letter and because we as readers know that Bran (and his heir, Rickon) are still alive, Bran is the King in the North. Jon's claim is based on guesswork and assumptions. Is Jon the King on the Iron Throne then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHodorThatWasPromised Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well, he hasn't formally taken the throne of the North. There's no crown, no subjects outside of Jojen and Meera. At best I'd say he currently retains his title of prince, but really, this is all a matter of super-semantics. How could you forget king Brans biggest (pun intended) supporter: Hodor ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Manderly knows about Rickon, but I don't think he does about Bran. He specifically calls Rickon his liege lord, why would he do that if he knew about Bran? The Boltons aren't about to admit to any Starks being alive as that would undermine their claim. No one's going to believe anything Theon has to say, as "I didn't really burn the Stark boys" is a rather self-serving statement. The random Liddle didn't ask their names as I recall and the chances of a mountain clansman knowing the second son of Ned Stark on sight seems low. Sam didn't even tell Jon, so I don't think he's going to blab either.He clearly recognizes who the Stark boys are given his dialogue. They're followed around by two dire wolves ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think we are forgotting the Varys' lesson here: "Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less". There are not "true" or "false kings. The royal bloodline works when the vassals accept it. (That's why Robert Baratheon become a king). Its not about the gods, blood, or even money, is about where you choose. That's one of the lessons of this story: its not easy and sometimes its not safe, but you can choose where power is, you have a choice, either to follow or to be independent. Is Bran a king? Is Stannis or Tommen a king? Who named the king? For the Stark loyalist, Bran (assuming they know he is alive) is their king, if not, Jon is the king, being Robb's legitimized heir. Yes, Bran is a king. The question is: How big is Bran's sovereingty? Who are his vassals? And more important, why does someone will accept him as his king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The Mountain Clans definitely knows he's alive and was headed for the Wall, and Manderly knows from Wex Pyke that Bran left Winterfell alive. Bran's story does have many references and parallels to mythic kings: Bran the Blessed, Bran the Builder, the Fisher King, and King Arthur, and he is heir to Winterfell, but he has yet to be crowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 He's in pretty much the same position as Stannis - he has a claim to a throne, but his claim is not a recognised one. Depending on how Robb's will was worded, Jon could argue for his claim to supercede Bran's. Manderly asking for Rickon in his chapter interests me. I have wondered if Manderly wants Rickon as a puppet ruler, he can use as a liege lord, while waiting for Bran to reappear and claim his crown. Manderly offers Stannis his apologies and declare for Bran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Is Jon the King on the Iron Throne then? No, because of his vows to the Nights Watch. Up until he swore his vows however, he very likely was, if the suppositions about Benjen leaving the Nights Watch out of guilt over handing Lyanna off in a northern wedding before the heart tree, meaning that Jon is trueborn, are true. GRRM has refused to say why Benjen left, even though he was one of few heirs to Winterfell at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Who your rightful ruler is depends on which laws you're using. Under Dornish Law, Sansa is heir to both Riverrun and Winterfell. And in case the whole world forgot, Bran is a tree. Seriously, why would Bran demote himself from God to King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Nightsong Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Bran Stark is King in the North in exactly the same way that Jon is a legitimate son of Rhaegar. That is to say, it may well be true, but almost the only people who know or care populate this board. Like me. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbySmythe Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 ...which they never did... http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Mormont#A_Dance_with_Dragons As stated in the link above, after Stannis takes Deepwood Motte and restores it to House Glover, House Mormont swears fealty to Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Depends on the wording of Robb's will.Depends on Jon being alive or dead.Depends on the (lack of?) need for formal coronation. Which we do not know. And even then it depends on acknowledging independence of North. So clearly no clear answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Bran will NEVER be king. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The Mountain Clans definitely knows he's alive and was headed for the Wall, and Manderly knows from Wex Pyke that Bran left Winterfell alive. Bran's story does have many references and parallels to mythic kings: Bran the Blessed, Bran the Builder, the Fisher King, and King Arthur, and he is heir to Winterfell, but he has yet to be crowned. Sure, but remember what George likes to say about Aragorn. We were told at the end that he went on to be a good and wise king. But we don't hear anything of his trade or tax policy. Sansa on the other hand is strongly paralleled with Elizabeth I, a real life monarch who was quite good at the grubby details of statecraft. I see Bran ruling in a big picture way through the wiernet, Mythic King that he is. We all know that at present, BR is the real king of Westeros. Lemoncakes people. They're symbolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HosteenOsteen Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 They will bend the knee to Stannis, their rightful king. Or they will die. Rh'llor has decreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greenseer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Who your rightful ruler is depends on which laws you're using. Under Dornish Law, Sansa is heir to both Riverrun and Winterfell. And in case the whole world forgot, Bran is a tree. Seriously, why would Bran demote himself from God to King. How about a promotion to God King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Mormont#A_Dance_with_Dragons As stated in the link above, after Stannis takes Deepwood Motte and restores it to House Glover, House Mormont swears fealty to Stannis. Maybe. Unless they're just using Stannis to root out the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGirl Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Technically, since his brother was declared KITN by the Northerners and they don't recognise the Boltons' authority, what the IT says doesn't matter since they declared their independence so the Boltons' position is just a piece of paper the North is pissing on. They're all waiting for the opportune moment to slit Roose and Ramsey's throats so if it got out he is alive, they would recognise him as Robb's heir. That's obviously why Wyman is looking for Rickon, if he is found, the Bolton are toast. They already are dependent on marrying "Arya" into their family to even pretend they are the rightful LP/Wardens, the evidence of a male Stark heir is all that is needed and even the Lannisters know that. So yes, technically, I would say that Bran (if ID'd as alive) would be next in line KITN right now. I personally hope he will be king in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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