R+L=J Hint

[mirthula]

Sorry Aemon the last targ you know of Dany is a bit Mad so no worries you are not missing out on anything.

But if Jon really is a targ then my dream would be for Aemon to know the truth before he dies. You can tell Aemon loves Jon and has a lot of faith in him and he would be mighty proud to know that Jon is a member of his family. I feel really sad for Aemon to realize his family line is extinct it would be such comfort for him to know the truth about Jon so he can rest in peace.

I know Aemon won't know the truth and he will die on his way to OldeTown but atleast he will be with Sam and not alone. Of all the deaths Aemon death broke my heart, he was such a good soul, if only he could be king.

Lastly Aemon advice to Jon about as a leader he needs to go with this gut instinct even if his subjects don't agree is only true towards the leader that has wisdom and knows what he is doing, not all rulers gut instinct is right. Jon is actually making the right decision, yeah it gets him killed eventually but that doesn't mean he wasn't right to begin with.

[Alboin]

What scares me, is that if they push R+L=J so aggressively, it means Jon's parentage will probably be revealed this season! I'm guessing maybe 10th episode after The Dance of Dragons penultimate action CGI stuff. And that's way too early for the story imo.

[andrew_]

What scares me, is that if they push R+L=J so aggressively, it means Jon's parentage will probably be revealed this season! I'm guessing maybe 10th episode after The Dance of Dragons penultimate action CGI stuff. And that's way too early for the story imo.

My guess is the Jons "for the watch" ending in book 5 will happen end of this season, they set it up in the scene where Jon told them his plan for the Wildlings.

[Boudica]

Targaryens aren't immune to fire. Jon was burned by the fire he used to kill the Wight. Viserys was killed by molten gold.

Jon could get stabbed, and someone else could also be killed in the indecent (perhaps even Ollie). As is customary for the Nights Watch they will burn the bodies together on a big pyre. The event could then be similar to Dany's event, instead of Jon burning he awakes up due to blood magic. It would be a vey practical way to actually show the audience that he is a Targaryen, without having another character telling someone else that he is a Targaryen. But who knows, whatever happens to Jon at the end of the season it seem quite likely that they will reveal that Jon is a Targaryen, it would turn his assassination attempt into a much bigger event if the audience knows his lineage.

[Lord Friendzone]

Jon could get stabbed, and someone else could also be killed in the indecent (perhaps even Ollie). As is customary for the Nights Watch they will burn the bodies together on a big pyre. The event could then be similar to Dany's event, instead of Jon burning he awakes up due to blood magic. It would be a vey practical way to actually show the audience that he is a Targaryen, without having another character telling someone else that he is a Targaryen. But who knows, whatever happens to Jon at the end of the season it seem quite likely that they will reveal that Jon is a Targaryen, it would turn his assassination attempt into a much bigger event if the audience knows his lineage.

Not a bad idea.It would increase the shock value of his scene.Just imagine peoples reactions:Jon is a Targaryen ohhh great...then FTW will happen WHATTT? Something D&D could do,but we'll see.

[RhaenysBee]

What scares me, is that if they push R+L=J so aggressively, it means Jon's parentage will probably be revealed this season! I'm guessing maybe 10th episode after The Dance of Dragons penultimate action CGI stuff. And that's way too early for the story imo.

I actually wouldn't mind. I feel like GRRM won't reveal it explicitly, as in nobody will go up to Jon and be like: Your parents are ______ [fill in the blank space] or Jon being like Damn, my parents are _______ [fill in the blank space]. And I really want to know, I don't want to just think and suspect and all, I want somebody to tell me who Jon's bloody parents are, because for all we know so far GRRM could be trolling us all and J is totally not = R+L and R+L is only = war and death.

[MoIaF]

Jon could get stabbed, and someone else could also be killed in the indecent (perhaps even Ollie). As is customary for the Nights Watch they will burn the bodies together on a big pyre. The event could then be similar to Dany's event, instead of Jon burning he awakes up due to blood magic. It would be a vey practical way to actually show the audience that he is a Targaryen, without having another character telling someone else that he is a Targaryen. But who knows, whatever happens to Jon at the end of the season it seem quite likely that they will reveal that Jon is a Targaryen, it would turn his assassination attempt into a much bigger event if the audience knows his lineage.

I would not like this at all.

Not only are Targaryen's not immune to fire but the events of the pyre where suppose to be a one time miracle. A scene like this would really take away from the birth of the dragons.

I think the more likely outcome is that Mel performs the kiss of life on Jon. They had her witness it on the show for a reason, I believe.

[I am a Dragon]

I actually wouldn't mind. I feel like GRRM won't reveal it explicitly, as in nobody will go up to Jon and be like: Your parents are ______ [fill in the blank space] or Jon being like Damn, my parents are _______ [fill in the blank space]. And I really want to know, I don't want to just think and suspect and all, I want somebody to tell me who Jon's bloody parents are, because for all we know so far GRRM could be trolling us all and J is totally not = R+L and R+L is only = war and death.

I think Benjen will probably be the one to tell Jon or Bran will see it in his visions.

[Nutellaeron]

I love that Aemon has been counselling his great grandson (Jon) all this time. I find it quite poetic after today's ep..

Melisandre has left the wall so I don't think she will be saving him. Stannis may need to return to get his ships.

If Jon is going to die, Mel will be back on the way from WF to fetch said ships at East Watch after their return from Hardhome. Most like Jon will get stabbed for some other reason other than Ramsay (because I'd assume stannis beats him already)

Either Sam is going to stop off at Dragonstone to collect the dragon glass they spoke of during the ep or what I think more likely, Stannis goes back or at least sends a raven to DS to mine it and send it to the wall.

I want to see Sam cross paths with Arya (though that will be next season)

[RhaenysBee]

I think Benjen will probably be the one to tell Jon or Bran will see it in his visions.

Ehh, but Benjen was eaten by the Yeti... :( How do we know he returns?

I wouldn't like Bran seeing it in his visions.Then I prefer the Benjen version.

[I am a Dragon]

Ehh, but Benjen was eaten by the Yeti... :( How do we know he returns?

I wouldn't like Bran seeing it in his visions.Then I prefer the Benjen version.

I'm pretty sure GRRM said that we will see Benjen again. Howland Reed could give the reveal either.

[aFeastForDragons]

Yup, got that too...maybe instead of "For The Watch" his men try to burn him alive and he doesnt?

This has been disproved 1000 times already. Targs aren't immune to fire.

[sj4iy]

Sorry Aemon the last targ you know of Dany is a bit Mad so no worries you are not missing out on anything.

But if Jon really is a targ then my dream would be for Aemon to know the truth before he dies. You can tell Aemon loves Jon and has a lot of faith in him and he would be mighty proud to know that Jon is a member of his family. I feel really sad for Aemon to realize his family line is extinct it would be such comfort for him to know the truth about Jon so he can rest in peace.

I know Aemon won't know the truth and he will die on his way to OldeTown but atleast he will be with Sam and not alone. Of all the deaths Aemon death broke my heart, he was such a good soul, if only he could be king.

Lastly Aemon advice to Jon about as a leader he needs to go with this gut instinct even if his subjects don't agree is only true towards the leader that has wisdom and knows what he is doing, not all rulers gut instinct is right. Jon is actually making the right decision, yeah it gets him killed eventually but that doesn't mean he wasn't right to begin with.

I don't think Aemon is going to leave Castle Black...I think it's pretty obvious that he's going to die there very soon.

I do feel sad knowing that he will never know that Jon was Rhaegar's son...but I'm glad that Aemon could see what kind of person Jon was despite being blind.

[sj4iy]

I would not like this at all.

Not only are Targaryen's not immune to fire but the events of the pyre where suppose to be a one time miracle. A scene like this would really take away from the birth of the dragons.

I think the more likely outcome is that Mel performs the kiss of life on Jon. They had her witness it on the show for a reason, I believe.

If Dany can perform a one-time miracle without even realizing it, I don't see why the same can't happen for Jon.

Also, Melisandre explicitly states that she DOESN'T have the power to bring back the dead. Why would she suddenly learn how just from seeing Beric?

[sj4iy]

I love that Aemon has been counselling his great grandson (Jon) all this time. I find it quite poetic after today's ep..

Not grandson...Aemon is Jon's great great uncle in the show.

[MoIaF]

If Dany can perform a one-time miracle without even realizing it, I don't see why the same can't happen for Jon.

Also, Melisandre explicitly states that she DOESN'T have the power to bring back the dead. Why would she suddenly learn how just from seeing Beric?

A one-time miracle means just that, one time never to be repeated again. The point of the pyre is that DANY performed the magic (and yes, she very much realized and knew what she was doing), it wasn't performed on her. She used whatever innate magic she has, plus the dragon eggs themselves are part of the ritual. The dragon eggs were an essential part of the spell along with other elements, such as the blood sacrifice of MMD.

And like I stated above any repeat of this would just cheapen the importance and uniqueness of the Dany's pyre.

Melissandra believed she didn't have the power at that time, that does not mean that she will never have the ability to perform that kind of magic.

[Tyrion4President]

I've tried starting a new topic on this but did anyone else come to this conclusion?

When the old man who brought the water pot into Brienne and Pod's chambers mentioned Eddard Stark I had this feeling that he was Howland Reed. Brienne told him she had swore an oath to Cat and when he said Cat is dead she responded with "that does not release me from my oath" (or something like that). If it truly is Howland then this scene would make sense because that parallels his oath to Eddard about the Tower of Joy. Its a perfect way to introduce him into the plot. Anyone else agree or care to expand?

[Rhoynar's Turtles]

I don't think Aemon is going to leave Castle Black...I think it's pretty obvious that he's going to die there very soon.

I do feel sad knowing that he will never know that Jon was Rhaegar's son...but I'm glad that Aemon could see what kind of person Jon was despite being blind.

I have been wondering who will be around to tell any of the living or soon to be revived characters who Jon's parents were. I thought it would be Selmy in the book, but the show dispensed with that. Then I thought maybe Aegon would know somehow, but he appears to be on borrowed time.

That leaves some gimmick (a vision by Bran, for example, as someone suggested in this thread) or just creating a reason for some other character to have that knowledge. For instance, the show could have Stannis saying that Ned confided in him about Jon's parentage and made him promise not to tell Robert because it would drive a wedge between their alliance. Or Littlefinger could be the choice given his odd reaction to Sansa's mention of the rape of Lyanna, but it is hard to think of a credible situation where Littlefinger would know this or, more practically, be able to prove it to anyone if he has some 3rd hand gossip as a source.

[sj4iy]

A one-time miracle means just that, one time never to be repeated again. The point of the pyre is that DANY performed the magic (and yes, she very much realized and knew what she was doing), it wasn't performed on her. She used whatever innate magic she has, plus the dragon eggs themselves are part of the ritual. The dragon eggs were an essential part of the spell along with other elements, such as the blood sacrifice of MMD.

And like I stated above any repeat of this would just cheapen the importance and uniqueness of the Dany's pyre.

Melissandra believed she didn't have the power at that time, that does not mean that she will never have the ability to perform that kind of magic.

So, Dany has performed the only miracle that will ever happen despite the fact that magic is rife in this world?

I seriously doubt it. I mean, bringing Beric back could also be considered a 'one-time miracle', because it's not like Thoros has the ability to bring anyone else back. Jon somehow healing from mortal wounds or rising from the dead or something like that would in no way 'cheapen' what Dany did, because they are completely unrelated.

That's what I mean by 'one-time miracle'...in that those circumstances could never be REPEATED...not that other people can't perform unexplainable feats of magic.

[MoIaF]

So, Dany has performed the only miracle that will ever happen despite the fact that magic is rife in this world?

I seriously doubt it. I mean, bringing Beric back could also be considered a 'one-time miracle', because it's not like Thoros has the ability to bring anyone else back. Jon somehow healing from mortal wounds or rising from the dead or something like that would in no way 'cheapen' what Dany did, because they are completely unrelated.

That's what I mean by 'one-time miracle'...in that those circumstances could never be REPEATED...not that other people can't perform unexplainable feats of magic.

You conflating the events of the pyre with miracles in general, something I did not do.

Sure, many miracles can happen, have happened and will happen in ASOIAF. However, someone surviving a pyre is a unique miracle not to be repeated again. Dany performing the magic of the pyre and surviving it was a unique miracle. Jon can recover from his wounds or he can be given the kiss of life, GRRM has never stated that either of these miracles are unique, like he has stated about Dany's pyre.

I'm sure GRRM can come up with many imaginative ways of Jon surviving the stabbing but he's not going to survive it by being [not]burned in a pyre.

This is the last I will say about this, I've already had this conversation with you in the past and I really don't want to go around in circles again.