Xarkar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Naah, he's no Frey. The man mentioned that he knew Eddard Stark and his father before him. That is quite a solid reference to Howland Reed (in my not so humble opinion). Combine this with the not forsaking of an oath after Cat/Eddards death and I think the hints are quite obvious. I don't think that Theon/Reek will eventually meet up with the former king of the north, but he will meet up with Howland to free Sansa. For the viewers this is a reasonable way to have Howland introduced and not having to explain the Mellisandre trick on the pyre (especially since Mel is not going to stay at castle black for now). Him knowing Eddard, and his farther before him as well is hardly rare. I would image most of the common folk that live close to Winterfell could say the same. If the old man is indeed Howland Reed, what the heck is he doing waiting on two travelers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Those obvious hints imo are unecessary... even non-book readers know R+L=J by now, google is bombarded daily with this and major sites already talked about it many times since the beginning of the 5 season... 90% of show viewers already know the theory, so this particular hint on episode 5 was very weakly thought out imo... "I'm going to throw out completely arbitrary percentages in support of my completely unsupported claim." You don't know how many people who have read the books know about Jon's parents, and there's certainly no way to determine how many show-watchers look up anything on the internet about Game of Thrones. So there's absolutely no way to come up with any percentage as to how many people know and how many don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 "I'm going to throw out completely arbitrary percentages in support of my completely unsupported claim."You don't know how many people who have read the books know about Jon's parents, and there's certainly no way to determine how many show-watchers look up anything on the internet about Game of Thrones. So there's absolutely no way to come up with any percentage as to how many people know and how many don't.next time i might have it in me to make a poll about it...in your opinion that hint was well made? good... for me, they could've done it better...there's a reason i wrote "imo" twice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 here is a question has Martin given permission to D&D to break this spoiler in the show before he reveals it in the books. This is after all the biggest fan theory out there everyone is waiting for this to be finally revealed and become cannon. i feel bad for martin it is like stealing his thunder, but i guess that is grave martin dug for himself when he sold the rights to the show BEFORE finishing writing the books. i think this secret is going to be revealed in winds of winter so Martin will be the first to officially break it, and in season 6 the show will also confirm it. one thing is for sure the show end long before martin writes his final book dream of spring. is there any doubt now that jon is not a targaryen i think even non book fans have guessed it by now. infact my friend guessed it in the first season itself, hey she was like do you think jon is the son of lyanna and rhaeghar and ned is just hiding it, i was like what the how did you figure that out, and she looks at me hmmmmm seem pretty obvious with all the shifty eyes ned was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 here is a question has Martin given permission to D&D to break this spoiler in the show before he reveals it in the books. This is after all the biggest fan theory out there everyone is waiting for this to be finally revealed and become cannon. i feel bad for martin it is like stealing his thunder, but i guess that is grave martin dug for himself when he sold the rights to the show BEFORE finishing writing the books. i think this secret is going to be revealed in winds of winter so Martin will be the first to officially break it, and in season 6 the show will also confirm it. one thing is for sure the show end long before martin writes his final book dream of spring. is there any doubt now that jon is not a targaryen i think even non book fans have guessed it by now. infact my friend guessed it in the first season itself, hey she was like do you think jon is the son of lyanna and rhaeghar and ned is just hiding it, i was like what the how did you figure that out, and she looks at me hmmmmm seem pretty obvious with all the shifty eyes ned was making. Martin sold the rights. D&D don't need his permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14ccKemistk Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is not without reason the show wants to highlight Olly's serious disapproval of Jon's decision to makenpeace with the wildlings. He's very likely to be in the "For the watch"-team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I have to agree with this, but who is left to reveal what happened at the ToJ other than Reed? And it seems late to bring him in. Anyone else is going to be second or third hand and that means the story will have changed just due to the retelling of it. Also will the reveal be the least bit believable to Jon, much less anyone else? As much as I am not crazy about the idea, the reveal is going to have to hand in hand with some sort of event (I hate to use the word miracle because it seems to Biblical). If there is no event with the reveal, I just do not see it being credible to the small folk, large folk, free folk or any other kind of folk out there. Without some sort of proof, the only believers will be readers . maybe that is the whole point. jon finding out he is a targaryen in the end is not about claiming anything it is about his identity, he will know the truth about his mother and father and how ned stark staked his honour to protect him and he will finally be at peace with himself. i think the truth really is for jon to know and maybe bran, don't think even dany will find out. jon doesn't care about being king of westeros and neither do people in the north care who his mother is. he will rule the wildlings and settle them in the gift and make sure they can be part of a civilization without causing any trouble. i think jon will be legitimized as a stark even if he finds out he is targaryen because he lived as a stark, his siblings are starks, his father is a stark and it was his dream to be accepted as a stark, he is not going to throw away his stark identity. no one cares who jon snow mother is except jon snow and the readers. it will be all anti climatic and jon will take this secret to the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Martin sold the rights. D&D don't need his permission. yeah just for courtesy sake they are not going to burst the bubble this season i don't think. i think they will wait till winds of winter atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckfosto Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I always thought that for show purposes, Bran would see the Tower of Joy play out via a vision. Didn't Jojen mention that he saw Eddard and Howland in the battle even though his father wouldn't tell him about it in the 3rd season? I know there aren't any Weirwood trees there at the Tower of Joy but they may not adhere strictly to that, considering Bran has other visions on his own. This is why I don't think it will be revealed until Season 6 although revealing it before he's "killed" would have some serious impact. I think the Cersei "flashback" worked because it was the very beginning of the first episode of the season and it also played out more as a dream. I'm actually surprised it wasn't a cold open to really separate it. But I think they wisely stay away from actual flashbacks. The only other one I could see them doing is Tower of Joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 next time i might have it in me to make a poll about it... in your opinion that hint was well made? good... for me, they could've done it better... there's a reason i wrote "imo" twice... Dear lord, it was just a quick pan up to Jon that people would miss if they didn't know what they were looking for. People are acting like they flashed "JON IS A TARGARYEN" across the screen in huge letters. God knows Martin was even less subtle in the books...I mean, come on- the raven yells "King Jon Snow!" Even people who didn't know about Jon's parents could pick up on that. I honestly don't see the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've tried starting a new topic on this but did anyone else come to this conclusion? When the old man who brought the water pot into Brienne and Pod's chambers mentioned Eddard Stark I had this feeling that he was Howland Reed. Brienne told him she had swore an oath to Cat and when he said Cat is dead she responded with "that does not release me from my oath" (or something like that). If it truly is Howland then this scene would make sense because that parallels his oath to Eddard about the Tower of Joy. Its a perfect way to introduce him into the plot. Anyone else agree or care to expand? I had thought this at first also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am a Dragon Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 To play my devil's advocate card, B+A=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 To play my devil's advocate card, B+A=J Which works so well, considering they've never once mentioned Ashara in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Very obvious hint, i'm wondering if the reveal will happen during this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arplus Elisjay Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Martin sold the rights. D&D don't need his permission. Well that depends on the terms in the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arplus Elisjay Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Then it looks like my original thoughts on the man were probably correct. Its gotta be Howland Reed. I wonder if that makes him the Ghost of Winterfell also. I doubtg they're going to put Howland Reed in the show. There's no context and the show would do better to use an existing character to communicate that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arplus Elisjay Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 here is a question has Martin given permission to D&D to break this spoiler in the show before he reveals it in the books. This is after all the biggest fan theory out there everyone is waiting for this to be finally revealed and become cannon. i feel bad for martin it is like stealing his thunder, but i guess that is grave martin dug for himself when he sold the rights to the show BEFORE finishing writing the books. i think this secret is going to be revealed in winds of winter so Martin will be the first to officially break it, and in season 6 the show will also confirm it. one thing is for sure the show end long before martin writes his final book dream of spring. is there any doubt now that jon is not a targaryen i think even non book fans have guessed it by now. infact my friend guessed it in the first season itself, hey she was like do you think jon is the son of lyanna and rhaeghar and ned is just hiding it, i was like what the how did you figure that out, and she looks at me hmmmmm seem pretty obvious with all the shifty eyes ned was making. Some thoughts: 1. The fan theory is pretty widespread at this point, so its almost not a spoiler. I don't think it takes away any thunder. 2. It could be that Martin doesn't plan to use that arc in the book, just in the TV show. Perhaps the book has a much more complex explanation for it, and R+L=J is just going to be TV show shorthand. I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well that depends on the terms in the contract. If they were contractually obligated not to go past Martin, then they would have changed a lot of things to prevent that. They didn't. It's obvious that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna, just like the books. And we know that it's inevitable that they oustrip the books, because both Martin and the producers have admitted as much. So I would say the terms of the contract were "we get to use your books for a tv show" without any conditions on when they could use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arplus Elisjay Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 I always thought that for show purposes, Bran would see the Tower of Joy play out via a vision. Didn't Jojen mention that he saw Eddard and Howland in the battle even though his father wouldn't tell him about it in the 3rd season? I know there aren't any Weirwood trees there at the Tower of Joy but they may not adhere strictly to that, considering Bran has other visions on his own. This is why I don't think it will be revealed until Season 6 although revealing it before he's "killed" would have some serious impact. I think the Cersei "flashback" worked because it was the very beginning of the first episode of the season and it also played out more as a dream. I'm actually surprised it wasn't a cold open to really separate it. But I think they wisely stay away from actual flashbacks. The only other one I could see them doing is Tower of Joy. Perhaps Maester Aemon could do the reveal....though that's just a thought off the top of my head, I don't know if that jibes with everything he's said/done in the show. Theoretically he could have found out despite being at the wall during the "abduction". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Perhaps Maester Aemon could do the reveal....though that's just a thought off the top of my head, I don't know if that jibes with everything he's said/done in the show. Theoretically he could have found out despite being at the wall during the "abduction". Stannis said keep reading Tarley Aemon dies, Samwell takes over and finds a letter that Aemon hid from everyone and Sam provides the info when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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