R+L=J Hint

[Ser Creighton]

Jon's reveal from the treatment was just that, we know the tale has grown in the telling and many things changed. Martin has made a lot of changes over the years. So I don't think, it's also not the only secret that has been in the entire saga. It's a major one, but there have been other twists and turns and hidden plot points.

As for where the R+L=J comes from, it' not just Thrones. The biggest reveal comes from Kings, and there are also clues in Dance. The Story of Harrenhal is in Kings, the Blue rose is in kings, Thrones had the first stuff of course but that does not mean the other books have given nothing but Red Herrings on Jon.

As for how Jon will be resurrected. Well it books and show are two different animals, how Martin does it and how the show does it may not be the same. I do know this, though I am not hoping for a resurrection, Dany was not resurrected. I don't like resurrected characters, but when you look at the resurrected characters it is not good. Remember Martin never liked that Gandalf came back as Gandalf the white or Super Gandalf. Look at what happens to his resurrected Characters, they have all lst something. Drogo was a Zomie, Beric talked abou losing himself, Cat became UnCat, pretty sure Gregor will be scary and fucked up, though he was always scary and fucked up, but probably more so. Then you have the Wights, and well they are worse and clearly not pleasent to be around. The dragons are a lot different, they were never born in the first place and pure magic in nature, and when I say that I mean the Dragons are basically dragons. There is nothing really odd about the Dragons. I am cool with magic healing Jon, but from what I have seen being brought back is not really a good thing. As Beric seems to point out you don't really come back yourself, like parts of you are missing. Even though I liked Beric there was a sort of tragedy about him, he lost everything and himself.

I think we already know Jon will be in the long absent Ghost on the show. I think the Jon will be awakened when someone gets him back in his body. That will probably be the theme of that whole deal, awakening. The other thing with Dany and the Dragons is that there was an entire book building up to that. Tons of clues on how to wake the dragons, lots of foreshadowing. This also has Jon doning nothing he is not brining himself back he is walking into a second life. Magic to put his mind back in it's body because magic took it out, seems cool, brining a dead man back to life? It won't make him Gandalf he white, not with what Martin has done. Even guys like Beric have a little Zombie in them. His apperance in the books? Beric looks like a Zombie UnCat looks like a Zombie and is kinda scary. And besides Martin never said he was dead, he literally said that, multiple times.

[nitromania]

I've tried starting a new topic on this but did anyone else come to this conclusion?

When the old man who brought the water pot into Brienne and Pod's chambers mentioned Eddard Stark I had this feeling that he was Howland Reed. Brienne told him she had swore an oath to Cat and when he said Cat is dead she responded with "that does not release me from my oath" (or something like that). If it truly is Howland then this scene would make sense because that parallels his oath to Eddard about the Tower of Joy. Its a perfect way to introduce him into the plot. Anyone else agree or care to expand?

I also thought of Reed! Didn't thought about their respective oaths, but it would indeed be a great way to introduce him and have him tell brienne the truth, mainly just for the sake of making the TV show reveal.

[robasp2]

I do not think this is an R+L=J hint.

Just mere coincidence

[Lord Friendzone]

I do not think this is an R+L=J hint.

Just mere coincidence

What a lovely coincidence. :)

[RedShirt47]

I didn't catch this, but perhaps. I do think we'll be getting more hints.

I prefer it this way personally, but a little consistently over time would have been the ultimate.

TV doesn't work that way. You have to cater for a wide range of viewer. Also every time there was a hint you have a stream of other hints in the "Previously On..." section.

Most readers didn't work out R+L=J and only know about it because of these forums. I've been looking through some unsullied thread on other forums and haven't seen any R+L=J discussion. So the show is not being too heavy handed so far.

[JonSnowed]

People who I work with figurered out that Lyanna was Jon's mother but thought it was a consequence of rape and didn't foresee that gave him potential power.

Also to the poster mentioning Jon will warg into Ghost, given that in the show Jon is not a warg (unlike the books where it's spelled out in Clash of Kings) I am now of the belief this theory is wrong or at least the show will not play out that way.

[sj4iy]

Not exactly a hint, more like a visual anvil dropped on our heads. Painfully obvious.

Painfully obvious to those who already know.

I was talking to some friends of mine who haven't read the books, and they didn't even register it. It's one of those things that doesn't hit you as a clue unless you know what you are looking at. I even asked them if it made sense that Rhaegar would give money to the poor and money to the orphans and then turn around and kidnap and rape a girl, and they also didn't put it together. The big "clue" that people will need to really get it is what happened at the ToJ, because Lyanna's death is the real clue at putting it all together.

[Mithras]

I think flashback is the only way to enlighten most of the Unsullied.

[sj4iy]

I think flashback is the only way to enlighten most of the Unsullied.

I don't think that's the only way. They just need to give out the right information. Which they haven't done yet.

[Tyrion4President]

I assumed he was a Frey because of his cap

Now that I think about it you may be right although they could equally make sense. If he is a Frey the fact that Brienne mentioned that vow hints that there may be some Frey hangings coming soon and maybe the return of the Brotherhood Without Banners. Sheesh now I'm not sure which theory I like more. Way to take the wind out of my sails lol :blink:

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

Now that I think about it you may be right although they could equally make sense. If he is a Frey the fact that Brienne mentioned that vow hints that there may be some Frey hangings coming soon and maybe the return of the Brotherhood Without Banners. Sheesh now I'm not sure which theory I like more. Way to take the wind out of my sails lol :blink:

Naah, he's no Frey. The man mentioned that he knew Eddard Stark and his father before him. That is quite a solid reference to Howland Reed (in my not so humble opinion). Combine this with the not forsaking of an oath after Cat/Eddards death and I think the hints are quite obvious.

I don't think that Theon/Reek will eventually meet up with the former king of the north, but he will meet up with Howland to free Sansa.

For the viewers this is a reasonable way to have Howland introduced and not having to explain the Mellisandre trick on the pyre (especially since Mel is not going to stay at castle black for now).

[Mithras]

I don't think that's the only way. They just need to give out the right information. Which they haven't done yet.

Who can give the right information?

[I am a Dragon]

Who can give the right information?

Sam will read it in a book or some other bullsh*t, like the letter about Danaerys.

[Tyrion4President]

Naah, he's no Frey. The man mentioned that he knew Eddard Stark and his father before him. That is quite a solid reference to Howland Reed (in my not so humble opinion). Combine this with the not forsaking of an oath after Cat/Eddards death and I think the hints are quite obvious.

I don't think that Theon/Reek will eventually meet up with the former king of the north, but he will meet up with Howland to free Sansa.

For the viewers this is a reasonable way to have Howland introduced and not having to explain the Mellisandre trick on the pyre (especially since Mel is not going to stay at castle black for now).

Then it looks like my original thoughts on the man were probably correct. Its gotta be Howland Reed. I wonder if that makes him the Ghost of Winterfell also.

[dannyk65]

I hope so. I can't stand another season of constant winks and nods.

Hilarious!

[JonSnowed]

As an aside who the hell wrote a letter about Dany and sent it to the wall? I mean the distance is crazy but who would even feel the need to do so.

[Pashernate Reader]

Sam will read it in a book or some other bullsh*t, like the letter about Danaerys.

Yeah, it will be published in the next issue of Targeryen Quarterly.

[Lovely Lyanna]

Painfully obvious to those who already know.

I was talking to some friends of mine who haven't read the books, and they didn't even register it. It's one of those things that doesn't hit you as a clue unless you know what you are looking at. I even asked them if it made sense that Rhaegar would give money to the poor and money to the orphans and then turn around and kidnap and rape a girl, and they also didn't put it together. The big "clue" that people will need to really get it is what happened at the ToJ, because Lyanna's death is the real clue at putting it all together.

I have to agree with this, but who is left to reveal what happened at the ToJ other than Reed? And it seems late to bring him in. Anyone else is going to be second or third hand and that means the story will have changed just due to the retelling of it. Also will the reveal be the least bit believable to Jon, much less anyone else? As much as I am not crazy about the idea, the reveal is going to have to hand in hand with some sort of event (I hate to use the word miracle because it seems to Biblical). If there is no event with the reveal, I just do not see it being credible to the small folk, large folk, free folk or any other kind of folk out there. Without some sort of proof, the only believers will be readers .

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Those obvious hints imo are unecessary... even non-book readers know R+L=J by now, google is bombarded daily with this and major sites already talked about it many times since the beginning of the 5 season...

90% of show viewers already know the theory, so this particular hint on episode 5 was very weakly thought out imo...

[Grail King]

People who I work with figurered out that Lyanna was Jon's mother but thought it was a consequence of rape and didn't foresee that gave him potential power.

Also to the poster mentioning Jon will warg into Ghost, given that in the show Jon is not a warg (unlike the books where it's spelled out in Clash of Kings) I am now of the belief this theory is wrong or at least the show will not play out that way.

Per Dan Weise ( I believe ) in one of the interviews with people in the auditorium a question was asked of the cast about who they like to be or something along that line, and Kit said he like to get to warg and Weise said above the cheers season 6 season 6.

So it may happen.