If Mel is leaving with Stannis, does that mean Bran will save Jon? [Book Spoilers]

[ummester]

The series may become very dark, but leaving so many cliffhangers at the end of a series is not good story telling. Cliffhangers could entice viewers for the next season but too many cliffhangers can also be gimmicky, and people might see it as being your typical TV drama and they might lose interest. There also needs to be a bit of hope or something to look forward to.

Some of the biggest critiques against AFFC and ADWD is all of the cliffhangers and story lines that where left unresolved. It would be an ever bigger mistake to try this for TV, because people see TV cliffhanger almost every week. But so far they have been good when it comes to these types of cliffhangers, like for example in this episode where Tyrion falls into the river and the screen blacks out, but they did not leave it as a cliffhanger for next week. It would have been silly because most people would not really think anything would really happen with Tyrion. And perhaps the situation with Jon somewhat similar. They might as well show what happens after the stabbing. But because it is such a big event, I could also see them leaving it as a cliffhanger like in the books, perhaps as the second last scene of episode 10.

It is obvious that they will change some events when it comes to the battles this season. Most people are really looking forward to the battle for Winterfell, but it seems like there is not going to be a big battle for Winterfell. It looks like it might just be a small skirmish, or perhaps they are leaving the bigger battle for next season. The big battle in the North will be at Hardhome, and I think it makes a lot of sense. They really need to show the White Walkers as a thread. The thread of the White Walkers have been on the background for to long, they need to start doing something, there is not that much time left. They need to reach the South and there are only 25 episodes left. With the battle for Winterfell being a much smaller event it does make you wonder what will happen to Stannis.

It also seems like there will not really be a battle for for Mereen, it will just be one guerrilla attack, in Daznak's Pit.

I do agree with what you suggest - but always consider that GoTs has a very ensemble cast.

For whatever reason, show Tyrion isn't going as dark as book Tyrion. I suspect Tyrion and Jamie will be our biggest glimmers of hope at the end of Season 5, Tyrion in Essos and Jamie in Westeros. It looks like Tyrion is going to become what Barristan was at the end of ADwD and I'm thinking that rather than Jamie trying to do good things in the Riverlands, he will end up trying to nuture friendship between Dorne and the crown.

We will also have Arya - I don't think they will leave her blind until Season 6, though she is on a fairly dark road.

Point being, at some stage I think viewers are going to have to get used to Dany and Jon having to descend into relative darkness to be the kind of 'heroes' this plot needs, so it might as well be now.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well, technically we don't even know that Jon comes back. R+L=J=s significant role for Jon in the end game is all assumption and speculation. All the R+L=J hints that have been heavily dropped this season could all be red herring stuff to get people all excited by the possibility of Jon having plot armour (just like we were all convinced in the books) when in the end Jon turns out to be superfluous to winning the big war and he is totally expendable, and is indeed permanently expended, in both the TV series and the books.

Personally I think Jon is coming back. From the TV show perspective there are so few male characters to really love without there being a bad stain in their past that there would probably be a big audience switch off if Jon was gone for good.

It is interesting that allegedly one of the conditions for being allowed to make the show was that D&D correctly deduced Jon's parentage. It seems like the show is telegraphing R+L=J a bit too strongly this season in a way that makes it seem like a red herring in the show. Which, even though I am in the R+L=J camp it makes me wonder about the possibility of N+A=J. The problem is up to now we've never been introduced to A and this season is the time to put A into the picture if David and Dan want to keep people guessing. A can come into the picture either through the Dorne story line, or it could be a tale that Stannis relates to Mel and / or Selyse. Stannis already said having his way with tavern wenches is not the Ned way. So Stannis either believes Jon is not Ned's, or he believes Ned planted his seed in a highborn lady.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I do agree. And when when you think about the situation a bit further, it will all properly depend on what Jon's condition actually is after the stabbing. A cliffhanger is about creating tension, anticipation and a talking point. If Jon is just gravely injured or in a coma, then I can see them making it into a cliffhanger, because people will obviously be shocked and they would want to find out if he survives or not, that would be the anticipation and talking point.

But if Jon actually dies and he requires some form of resurrection, then I could see them adding the resurrection scene to this season.

Having one of the main characters die and being resurrected, would still be a shocking event, and it would still cause anticipation and a big talking point for next season. Basically being resurrected from the dead works just as well for a cliffhanger, as being either dead or alive. After all of the R+L=J clues so far this season, it would work especially well if Jon was burned on a pyre and he stands up and walks out of the flames. It would confirm his Targaryen blood, which would create another talking point.

I love this idea!!! I think it would work great on the show.

[mirthula]

I love this idea!!! I think it would work great on the show.

After all of the R+L=J clues so far this season, it would work especially well if Jon was burned on a pyre and he stands up and walks out of the flames. It would confirm his Targaryen blood, which would create another talking point.

THAT WOULD BE BLOODY AWESOME.

well they have to explain how his wounds healed by the fire and all but who cares weirder shit have happened and we have dragons in this world magic can't be explained it is all supernatural.

i also think that would make sense because why would they want to preserve jon's body in an ice box, burning the dead ASAP is the only way.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

After all of the R+L=J clues so far this season, it would work especially well if Jon was burned on a pyre and he stands up and walks out of the flames. It would confirm his Targaryen blood, which would create another talking point.

THAT WOULD BE BLOODY AWESOME.

well they have to explain how his wounds healed by the fire and all but who cares weirder shit have happened and we have dragons in this world magic can't be explained it is all supernatural.

i also think that would make sense because why would they want to preserve jon's body in an ice box, burning the dead ASAP is the only way.

And this so sounds like something D&D would do. Hell, maybe that's what's going to happen in the books if Mel tries to burn him for his blood. Fire and blood people. FIRE AND BLOOD!

[chris999]

In the books, Mel stays in Castle Black so many speculated that she is the one who will save Jon. But since she leaves in the show, is it likely that Bran will guide Jon back to life? Bran has superpowers!

Since it is different from the books, it does make me wonder about a quote by G.R.R.M.

"This is going to drive your readers crazy, but I love it. I'm still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It's a great twist. It's easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations...This is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved... it all makes sense. But it's nothing I've ever thought of before."

Could it be that the change he is referring to is Mel going away? With Bran and Co. being freed up from the possibility of having to rescue Jon, does that mean they're going to do something we never expected?

I hope that GRRM quote is very old... If he hasnt already written that part and getting near the end of writing WoW then I dont know if I can wait another 5 years.

[Drogonthedread]

I hope that GRRM quote is very old... If he hasnt already written that part and getting near the end of writing WoW then I dont know if I can wait another 5 years.

he said that last month

[Drogonthedread]

After all of the R+L=J clues so far this season, it would work especially well if Jon was burned on a pyre and he stands up and walks out of the flames. It would confirm his Targaryen blood, which would create another talking point.

THAT WOULD BE BLOODY AWESOME.

well they have to explain how his wounds healed by the fire and all but who cares weirder shit have happened and we have dragons in this world magic can't be explained it is all supernatural.

i also think that would make sense because why would they want to preserve jon's body in an ice box, burning the dead ASAP is the only way.

After all of the R+L=J clues so far this season, it would work especially well if Jon was burned on a pyre and he stands up and walks out of the flames. It would confirm his Targaryen blood, which would create another talking point.

THAT WOULD BE BLOODY AWESOME.

well they have to explain how his wounds healed by the fire and all but who cares weirder shit have happened and we have dragons in this world magic can't be explained it is all supernatural.

i also think that would make sense because why would they want to preserve jon's body in an ice box, burning the dead ASAP is the only way.

everytime i see someone suggest this i have to laugh ..its not happening Grrm has said what happened with dany is one time only

[Lord Friendzone]

Well, technically we don't even know that Jon comes back. R+L=J=s significant role for Jon in the end game is all assumption and speculation. All the R+L=J hints that have been heavily dropped this season could all be red herring stuff to get people all excited by the possibility of Jon having plot armour (just like we were all convinced in the books) when in the end Jon turns out to be superfluous to winning the big war and he is totally expendable, and is indeed permanently expended, in both the TV series and the books.

Personally I think Jon is coming back. From the TV show perspective there are so few male characters to really love without there being a bad stain in their past that there would probably be a big audience switch off if Jon was gone for good.

It is interesting that allegedly one of the conditions for being allowed to make the show was that D&D correctly deduced Jon's parentage. It seems like the show is telegraphing R+L=J a bit too strongly this season in a way that makes it seem like a red herring in the show. Which, even though I am in the R+L=J camp it makes me wonder about the possibility of N+A=J. The problem is up to now we've never been introduced to A and this season is the time to put A into the picture if David and Dan want to keep people guessing. A can come into the picture either through the Dorne story line, or it could be a tale that Stannis relates to Mel and / or Selyse. Stannis already said having his way with tavern wenches is not the Ned way. So Stannis either believes Jon is not Ned's, or he believes Ned planted his seed in a highborn lady.

It's understandable.We're heading toward the endgame and they need to bombard people with it.To do proper build up.Ashara should've been mentioned in the show,but they choose not to and I doubt they gonna start with it now.There are more important things in Dorne for D&D rather than Ashara and House Dayne in general.

[sj4iy]

Or if he is saved at all. Do we all forget who writes these books? It would be a lot easier to axe John Snow and kill the R+L=J rumor from the storyline. That would really piss a ton of people off.

That's not how Martin writes. Jon is one of his main characters in the books...the mystery of his parentage has been built up over 5 books, and is intertwined with the story. They is also a ton of foreshadowing concerning Jon and his lineage.

It's one thing to write a shocking death that moves your story along, it's another to write a shocking death that stops your story dead- which is what Jon's death would do. He's literally irreplaceable as a POV. He's also the only character who knows enough about the Others and is in a position that he can do something about it.

So no, that's not Martin's "way". Jon won't die yet.

[Drogonthedread]

four seasons of complaining that there is not enough references to the R+l=j and when they do it people complain its not too subtle...i dont know which books people are reading where the author gives away all the foreshadowing in the first book which is so obvious that there is thread with nearing iteration 150 is going on in general forum

and another thing that annoyed me is fandom hating Olly and people act like they have just found location of lost atlantis that olly is going to stab jon ..ofcourse people know because you know that jon is going to get stabbed and hence you know he will be the one to do it ...how many times we have seen Marsh di8ssatisfies by jon decision in ADWD..inorder to set up his face will be shown time to time deal with it otherwise people will start blaming that came out of no where ...so whatever the show runners do people will always complain

That's not how Martin writes. Jon is one of his main characters in the books...the mystery of his parentage has been built up over 5 books, and is intertwined with the story. They is also a ton of foreshadowing concerning Jon and his lineage.

It's one thing to write a shocking death that moves your story along, it's another to write a shocking death that stops your story dead- which is what Jon's death would do. He's literally irreplaceable as a POV. He's also the only character who knows enough about the Others and is in a position that he can do something about it.

So no, that's not Martin's "way". Jon won't die yet.

i agree he is not dead and only gravely injured...but about the bolded part minor nitpick that is not true Sam and stannis knows too..

my only happy thing and looking forward to the jon's betrayal scene is that there wont be any ser patrick blue star and hopefully no smoking wound and no shireen burning and waking jon ..if they show more than the books and some aftermath of the stabbing .. .i will be happy and that theory about jon as AA may lose some of its vaue until WOW and when WOW comes it will disprove the entire theory IMO

[Aerys Blackfyre]

maybe J is dead for good and nobody is going to save him! :devil: :devil: :devil:

[sj4iy]

i agree he is not dead and only gravely injured...but about the bolded part minor nitpick that is not true Sam and stannis knows too..

my only happy thing and looking forward to the jon's betrayal scene is that there wont be any ser patrick blue star and hopefully no smoking wound and no shireen burning and waking jon ..if they show more than the books and some aftermath of the stabbing .. .i will be happy and that theory about jon as AA may lose some of its vaue until WOW and when WOW comes it will disprove the entire theory IMO

Stannis is not anywhere near the Wall...he's fighting the Boltons at Winterfell and may even be dead for all we know.

And Sam is all the way down in Oldtown.

Stannis and Sam may know about the Others, but neither are in the position in which they can do anything if the Others attacked.

[Drogonthedread]

Stannis is not anywhere near the Wall...he's fighting the Boltons at Winterfell and may even be dead for all we know.

And Sam is all the way down in Oldtown.

Stannis and Sam may know about the Others, but neither are in the position in which they can do anything if the Others attacked.

iu know i think stannis will be dead at the end of the season ...sam is in oldtown what iam saying is it is known to Nightswatch and its not only known to jon alone ..

and jon wont be fighting either if he is injured and spends sometime inside ghost ...so by that time he gets back into his body everyone will know about the obsidian and dany will be in westeros hopefully with her flaming swords

[DarkSansa]

Why do people keep saying that Stannis will die this season. Wouldn't that make all this journey of his a waste of time.

What happens to his army. Unless people are saying that Shireen takes over or something or that the Army bows to Jon or something..i dont see the point of building stannis up this season and instantly getting him killed.

I can understand his death once he meets his true enemy (the others)...but why now?

[Drogonthedread]

Why do people keep saying that Stannis will die this season. Wouldn't that make all this journey of his a waste of time.

What happens to his army. Unless people are saying that Shireen takes over or something or that the Army bows to Jon or something..i dont see the point of building stannis up this season and instantly getting him killed.

I can understand his death once he meets his true enemy (the others)...but why now?

because i believe that pink letter is true and once he dies shireen will be used as sacrifice by selyse

maybe he does not die but i dont think he is going to win the battle of winterfell ...and yes i dont think he will be around when the others come its not his war ..remember battle in the snow dying and Fake AA

[Stonehearted Snake]

Well, technically we don't even know that Jon comes back. R+L=J=s significant role for Jon in the end game is all assumption and speculation. All the R+L=J hints that have been heavily dropped this season could all be red herring stuff to get people all excited by the possibility of Jon having plot armour (just like we were all convinced in the books) when in the end Jon turns out to be superfluous to winning the big war and he is totally expendable, and is indeed permanently expended, in both the TV series and the books.

Personally I think Jon is coming back. From the TV show perspective there are so few male characters to really love without there being a bad stain in their past that there would probably be a big audience switch off if Jon was gone for good.

It is interesting that allegedly one of the conditions for being allowed to make the show was that D&D correctly deduced Jon's parentage. It seems like the show is telegraphing R+L=J a bit too strongly this season in a way that makes it seem like a red herring in the show. Which, even though I am in the R+L=J camp it makes me wonder about the possibility of N+A=J. The problem is up to now we've never been introduced to A and this season is the time to put A into the picture if David and Dan want to keep people guessing. A can come into the picture either through the Dorne story line, or it could be a tale that Stannis relates to Mel and / or Selyse. Stannis already said having his way with tavern wenches is not the Ned way. So Stannis either believes Jon is not Ned's, or he believes Ned planted his seed in a highborn lady.

It's only a red herring because we know to look for it. People who don't know to look for it don't usually see it. I only know one non-book reader who's picked it up out of dozens. It's not that different than the books actually. I totally did not pick up on anything related to R+L=J on my first read and the theory blew my mind when I read about it online after finishing the books. But when I read the books again, especially AGOT, the hints are everywhere. I just didn't know they were hints until I knew to look for them.

[sj4iy]

iu know i think stannis will be dead at the end of the season ...sam is in oldtown what iam saying is it is known to Nightswatch and its not only known to jon alone ..

and jon wont be fighting either if he is injured and spends sometime inside ghost ...so by that time he gets back into his body everyone will know about the obsidian and dany will be in westeros hopefully with her flaming swords

That's a big leap, considering that Dany hasn't even decided to come over to Westeros...and when she does, I doubt it will be to fight the Others. I'm not making predictions, I'm just saying that Jon isn't going to die.

[titanx5]

Why do people keep saying that Stannis will die this season. Wouldn't that make all this journey of his a waste of time.

What happens to his army. Unless people are saying that Shireen takes over or something or that the Army bows to Jon or something..i dont see the point of building stannis up this season and instantly getting him killed.

I can understand his death once he meets his true enemy (the others)...but why now?

I also dont understand who or why some people are coming up with this theory as if its a fact. If the Baratheon forces are killed (which I really doubt), there is no fAegon, Dany is still not anywhere near to coming to Westeros, possibly no Greyjoy storyline, so just peaceful Lannister-Tyrell alliance?Com'on. See no one to fill the void. And yes GoT likes to shock people but fans would get really upset if Jon gets 'killed', Stannis dead or Shireen dead. I dont see that happening.

If people are basing there predictions of Stannis's death just because he has a 'larger' army and higher odds in his favor, lots of things can turn that around and make him appear as a underdog the snow storm is going to take its toll on his army and we have seen some pictures of Mel in s5 with Baratheon soldiers in the background freezing so they are going to show winter as a big thing.

[titanx5]

Why do people keep saying that Stannis will die this season. Wouldn't that make all this journey of his a waste of time.

What happens to his army. Unless people are saying that Shireen takes over or something or that the Army bows to Jon or something..i dont see the point of building stannis up this season and instantly getting him killed.

I can understand his death once he meets his true enemy (the others)...but why now?

I also dont understand who or why some people are coming up with this theory as if its a fact. If the Baratheon forces are killed (which I really doubt), there is no fAegon, Dany is still not anywhere near to coming to Westeros, possibly no Greyjoy storyline, so just peaceful Lannister-Tyrell alliance?Com'on. See no one to fill the void. And yes GoT likes to shock people but fans would get really upset if Jon gets 'killed', Stannis dead or Shireen dead. I dont see that happening.

If people are basing there predictions of Stannis's death just because he has a 'larger' army and higher odds in his favor, lots of things can turn that around and make him appear as a underdog the snow storm is going to take its toll on his army and we have seen some pictures of Mel in s5 with Baratheon soldiers in the background freezing so they are going to show winter as a big thing.