Viper Hound Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Any chance Mel is along because she is going to reserect Sansa, and Sansa becomes Lady Stoneheart? The Jorah character meld with JonCon popped this in my head last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Hound Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sorry double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudica Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is what I think is going to happen. I could definitely see him out for 1/2 to 2/3 of the book. Apparently Dany is supposed to spend at least most of Winds in Essos still, and I'd argue the show can't really do that either. I think she's in Westeros by mid season 6, hopefully leaving by 603 or 604 and Jon will come back at maybe around the same time. Yes the show has a good reason to move these types of events forward. And I won't be surprised if A) it is a Mel pov and a much larger rebellion is happening at CB... or B) it begins the way the chapter ended ....__________ from Jon's pov Something like that would be awesome. She did not say it was another seduction scene, only that it would be far more shocking. Okay, thanks that does sound much better. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudica Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Any chance Mel is along because she is going to reserect Sansa, and Sansa becomes Lady Stoneheart? The Jorah character meld with JonCon popped this in my head last night. No, Sansa has her own story line and arch. Lady Stoneheart does not seem to be important on a bigger scale or towards the end game. So there is no reason for Sansa to become Lady Stoneheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinjuku Thief Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 We don't know WHO saves Jon in the first place. For all we know, he could save himself. Or some random person.I think it's premature to say that Melisandre is going to be the one to save him. I'm hoping that it's something to do with Bran and/or the Old Gods, rather than Mel (with whom Jon has no affinity whatsoever). I also hope the Caesar moment will be in Ep9 (at the latest - note that I haven't looked ahead at any of the episode synopses) and leaves the audience hanging til next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I watched the trailer and it is a man on that funeral pyre that is burning. It's got to be Stannis or Davos. You could see the gloved hands and I was trying to figure out if the fingers on one hand were shorter than the other....lol. Edited again to say to make sure that is Stannis' army. Maybe it is Jon Snow. I think that's supposed to be Aemon. I don't think so - the clothe doesn't match, plus they are already left. Davos was stand in the crowd, so no. It's most likely to be Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm starting to think this season will break sync with other seasons - you know, 109 big death, 209 big battle, 309 big death, 409 big battle - the big death here might be right at the end of 510. Season 5 might leave the main plotlines hanging in exactly the same place as ADwD, well, other than Tyrion, who will probably totally skip being a slave and be Dany's advisor just before she flies away. So, it is possible the Mannis/Shireen don't bite it until 510 either. Everything could be left hanging in episode 510. Say Theon and Brienne rescue Sansa from Ramsay and meet up with the Mannis and then the Mannis dies and Ramsay smirks at Theon and Sansa, so we don't know what worse fate awaits those 2 until season 6. Actually, here is a thought, Brienne could kill Stannis in 510, reminding him of his worst failing and avenging Renley. Cut to Ramsay and Roose bearing down on what remains of Stannis' camp, to kill the (already dead) Mannis and reclaim their hostages. Cut to Mel torching Shireen to rebirth Azor Ahai, as Selese has her emotional breakdown from the trailer. Cut to Olly and co stabbing Jon. Jon sees Ghost. Fade to black. Season end. So we may not find out until season 6 exactly how Jon's rebirth fits together and will debate whether he is raised by Bran or Mel for another year. Just on the Nights King coming to take Jon away and Bloodraven and Bran saving him, I imagine a counter point, that Bloodraven and Bran will send the Nights king to take Jon away. Imagine if we get a final scene, after Jon is stabbed, with the Nights King coming into Bloodraven's cave and just looking at Bran, so that is left in the air until season 6 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I also hope the Caesar moment will be in Ep9 (at the latest - note that I haven't looked ahead at any of the episode synopses) and leaves the audience hanging til next season. The problem with the cliffhanger concept within the context of the television show is that they simply cannot hide Kit Harington for twelve months. It just will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Faint, Charles Dance was killed in 410 and cast in 501 as a corpse. For non book readers, all the show has to say is Kit is in 601, possibly as a corpse, possibly gasping his dying words to ghost - who knows. They don't have to disclose Kit will be in 602 until he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Faint, Charles Dance was killed in 410 and cast in 501 as a corpse. For non book readers, all the show has to say is Kit is in 601, possibly as a corpse, possibly gasping his dying words to ghost - who knows. They don't have to disclose Kit will be in 602 until he is. Right, and when it comes down that Kit Harington has spent six months filming in Iceland, we are to assume that is all for one episode? Needless to say, your analogy is not persuasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Even if we think Jon is dead for 6 months and then realise he is coming back in the 6 months before the show, we don't know how, why and under what circumstances. Besides, most viewers don't keep up with the entertainment news, I'm sure they just watch the show and take it as it comes - exactly like GRRM says most books readers don't discuss the books on the internet, so, even though the ending is out there, the majority will be surprised. Another option is Jon could spend all of Season 6 in Ghost and not be resurrected until Season 7. Or, a final option is that Jon is genuinely dead and ain't coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Inevitably, whatever happens to Jon, it will probably be clearer on the television adaption than in the books, if only because we are not likely to be witness to his death from his point of view. I would also say that by actually having Melisandre leave the Wall and then, apparently, come back, they are not doing much about furthering the mystery. How they could flash a bigger neon sign about the whole thing is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yea but those of us who are this invested in trying to work out what is going on are a very small percentage of the viewers. What are neon signs to us are not neon signs to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorio Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 D&D likely find the idea of burning Shireen to resurrect Jon compelling. They've shied away from other resurrections in the show, perhaps because they don't want it to feel like a cheap gimmick. Magic has to have a cost in this world, and murdering a sweet, innocent girl beloved by the audience to bring back the protagonist meets that threshold. It would force viewers to question whether the resurrection was really worth it, and make what would be a triumphant event in any other story feel dark and disturbing in true GoT fashion. It would make for powerful story telling, but I still don't want it to happen. I am just preparing myself for it. Focus on Shireen could be a red herring and Seylse or Theon could go to the pyre/heart tree instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmug Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is interesting to me to read how many show watchers believe that Stannis and co. will definitely lose the upcoming Battle of Ice whereas the book readers are pretty damn sure that Stannis and co. will definitely win the Battle of Ice. TV Stannis so far has been trumped up to have the overwhelming advantage, acknowledged by LF and others. This seems to lead everyone to believe that he will lose the battle. Book Stannis seems to have all of the disadvantages being outnumbered by the Freys/Boltons army but from what I am reading is that the majority of book readers believe Stannis will win through strategic trickery and some hidden Stark loyalists (Manderlys). http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69114-who-will-win-the-battle-of-winterfell/http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/127792-who-will-win-the-battle-in-the-ice-in-the-winds-of-winter/ I hope the TV show plays out like this, quick and dirty - as Stannis gets closer to WF the elements and the odds for this battle will worsen giving off huge doubts that he will even make it to WF with a standing army. Word will reach the Boltons at WF and they decide to send out a large force to finish them off. A group of Boltons will come back afterwards and let Roose know that Stannis has been vanquished bringing a Stannis head wrapped in Baratheon banners. This group turns out to be Stannis' men or other Stark loyalists dressed in Bolton gear and they turn and open the gates for more of Stannis/Stark loyalists and proceed to takeover WF and Stannis is still alive and still the Mannis. Hopefully, Theon or Brienne gets Sansa outta WF ala F-Arya and gets captured by Stannis as in the books or else I'm afraid Sansa will be as good as dead if Stannis succeeds in capturing WF. The Boltons might as well kill her or use her as a hostage against Stannis as he gets closer to victory. How would Stannis even know its the real Sansa? Brienne and Pod possibly. This is where Brienne's oath/loyalty will see its biggest test where I believe she will side with Stannis for the sake of fulfilling her oath to Lady Cat. Ill take off the tinfoil hat now but Im hoping i am partially correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Honestly if Stannis dies and Shireen gets burned alive this season, those two things combined might be more upsetting/disappointing than any other events in the show for me besides maybe the RW. Both of those things happening over the course or an episode or two would be a major gut punch. Hoping it's not the case but certainly could be. Also hoping that if Stannis goes down he at least takes one of the Boltons with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 D&D likely find the idea of burning Shireen to resurrect Jon compelling. They've shied away from other resurrections in the show, perhaps because they don't want it to feel like a cheap gimmick. Magic has to have a cost in this world, and murdering a sweet, innocent girl beloved by the audience to bring back the protagonist meets that threshold. It would force viewers to question whether the resurrection was really worth it, and make what would be a triumphant event in any other story feel dark and disturbing in true GoT fashion. It would make for powerful story telling, but I still don't want it to happen. I am just preparing myself for it. Focus on Shireen could be a red herring and Seylse or Theon could go to the pyre/heart tree instead. See I think the entire resurrection thing is somewhat of an RH in terms of Jon. If there is some form of resurrection, I see ice magic as the source, not fire. But I am also one of those who is not convinced that Jon will need to be resurrected to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Honestly if Stannis dies and Shireen gets burned alive this season, those two things combined might be more upsetting/disappointing than any other events in the show for me besides maybe the RW. Both of those things happening over the course or an episode or two would be a major gut punch. Hoping it's not the case but certainly could be. Also hoping that if Stannis goes down he at least takes one of the Boltons with him. I am not a huge Stannis fan, but certainly not far behind the Starks. It would be terrible if they killed him off, especially since he is alive in DwD. I personally think the bond that seems to be growing between show Jon&Stannis suggests something that I think will happen in the book, which is that is some way or form, Jon's northern army (assuming he will have one later) will include Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well sadly I think Stannis is going to get captured probably killed as well. I don't think Boltons are going to be defeated if nothing else they are the last evil house standing, characters are needed to create tension in the story. Lannisters had a leg to stand of when Tywin was alive but unfortunately Cersei is a joke so there is no one left to create any trouble except for LF and the dornish are essentially good guys. I think Jon is going to have to take down Boltons when he is resurrected. It will be his warm up fight before the war at the wall. Mid season 6 is when Jon will be back at WinterFell released from his vows at the Watch and take the Boltons down. I think we better buckle up for a lot of pain for Stannis, his family and Sansa too. I think Sansa might manage to escape to get to Jon and she will return back with Jon for her revenge. I think after the Boltons are eliminated I really think Sansa and Brienne are going to pay LF a visit and take care of him. Couldn't the tension in Season 6 and beyond be the Others/White Walkers finally breaching the wall? I mean if the plan is still to do the entire series in 7 seasons, the Others have to be attacking pretty darn soon. It's hard to imagine why anyone would really be concerned about the Boltons anymore when the Night's King and his army are starting to wipe out Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Honestly if Stannis dies and Shireen gets burned alive this season, those two things combined might be more upsetting/disappointing than any other events in the show for me besides maybe the RW. Both of those things happening over the course or an episode or two would be a major gut punch. Hoping it's not the case but certainly could be. Also hoping that if Stannis goes down he at least takes one of the Boltons with him. We need another gut punch to keep us vested in another 2 seasons. But, I think it is better to leave both Bolton's alive. The way I'm seeing this saga pan out, we have to absolutely hate whoever reigns/resides in Westeros before Jon and Dany come into play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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