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Stannis th3 Mannis

Fewer! why did Stannis make this correction?

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So what if it is. It's still funny as hell, even more now. Dillane is always brilliant.

I think some D&D haters should avoid the Show. You can't even appreciate the good things this show still has.

Speaking as someone who regularly teaches Novel to Film adaptations, it's nigh impossible to get people to like movies based on books that they love. Knee-jerk reaction is always to reject the Film/TV adaptation while targeting the changes. Once you understand that the book and the adaptation are simply different entities that are VERY loosely based on each other, you can let go an enjoy it for what it is: a separate story from a different mind.

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Speaking as someone who regularly teaches Novel to Film adaptations, it's nigh impossible to get people to like movies based on books that they love. Knee-jerk reaction is always to reject the Film/TV adaptation while targeting the changes. Once you understand that the book and the adaptation are simply different entities that are VERY loosely based on each other, you can let go an enjoy it for what it is: a separate story from a different mind.

Well, yes and no. LOTR was loved by nearly everyone. The same for many other great adaptations.

Now, I still think they should be viewed as different entities, regardless of their quality.

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To show how Stannis views the world in black and white. He is pedantic, inflexible, unable to tolerate deviance of any form and completely unfit to rule, but he believes that he MUST rule because it's his RIGHT. He's not gonna make it, people.

It annoys me when people say this. You can hate Stannis if you want, but you cannot with any degree of honesty say he is "inflexible" and unable to tolerate deviance of any form. This character has made several interesting compromises and deviates greatly from the standard rules most Lords follow.

The dude has an upjumped common smuggler for his right hand, the admiral of his fleet is a pirate, he has abandoned the seven in favor of some weirdo eastern religion... He has done nothing but show how flexible he is willing to be, despite what people say about him. Pretty much the worst thing you can say about him is that he is an asshole.

Edit: Additionally, there is an argument to be made against the idea of right versus duty. Yes, Stannis views it as his right to rule. However, he is also the only contender that also believes he has a duty to protect the realm. He is the only claimant that has bothered to support the Night's Watch in their time of need for that very reason.

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Well, yes and no. LOTR was loved by nearly everyone. The same for many other great adaptations.

Now, I still think they should be viewed as different entities, regardless of their quality.

LOTR was loved by nearly everyone because nearly everyone watched the movies first. LOTR is from a whole another generation even.

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LOL

I'm not willing to give these guys any benefit of the doubt anymore. A callback would have been to have Stannis say another grammar nazi joke; using the exact same one is just plain lazy to me.

Using the same joke gives viewers a warm and fuzzy for the character, as well as a laugh, because they remember the first joke and feel a sense of comfortable familiarity.

Stannis is so going to die soon :D

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It's why Stannis finally left this episode. He knows capturing Roose is his only chance at a civilized conversation in the North.


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To show how Stannis views the world in black and white. He is pedantic, inflexible, unable to tolerate deviance of any form and completely unfit to rule, but he believes that he MUST rule because it's his RIGHT. He's not gonna make it, people.

ROFL Oh dear you are fishing or you are dense, but either way you are funny.

Apparently using proper English (or in this case Westerosi) is now a sign of arrogance and unfitness in rule. Such are the daring innovations of our age ;)

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Well, apart from the fishing attempts at Stannis hating, I found it kind of endearing actually. You'll notice he didn't raise his voice, nor repeat it to Ser Davos.



Basically Stannis believes in doing one's duty within the bounds of law. As the Night's Watch exists outside the king's exact jurisdiction, any speaking by him on matters of internal Night's Watch policy would be a breach of decorum and infringing on the prerogatives of the Lord Commander.



And while some are taking all the unusual Stannis set up to mean his impending doom (an inherent conclusion given how most of us understand the tropes of tv storytelling and D&D's rather blunt force use of the cluebat), I think they might actually be following the narrative of a Dance with Dragons. Stannis will march, get bogged down in snow and all will see him as doomed, then we'll get a Winds of Winter look that far from doomed his march actually seems to have invigorated him.



The one who I'm worried most for is Shireen. We'll see, one way or another.


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It really isn't. I literally thought you were joking about it being lazy because it is such a ridiculous and trivial complaint. I mean it's not even the exact same joke - only two words are the same in both instances: "less" and "fewer". It's just a reference to a previous season. Reusing the same joke twice in the same season is lazy. Reusing a joke from three years ago is a nice callback for the more dedicated fans. I mean it's not like GRRM doesn't repeat certain phrases a lot. Like a lot.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

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ROFL Oh dear you are fishing or you are dense, but either way you are funny.

Apparently using proper English (or in this case Westerosi) is now a sign of arrogance and unfitness in rule. Such are the daring innovations of our age ;)

You know what? I remember why I don't post on internet forums anymore now. People can't separate their own feelings from those of the characters that they watch on television, and take any slight at their favorites as a personal attack.

First of all, check my second post, where I mention that I'm making these statements based on what GRRM apparently values. People who live by hard and fast rules (Ned's honor code, for example) don't survive his stories. Stannis likes nothing more than the letter of the law. He is not unfit to rule because he corrects the grammar of others (like an asshole), but his correction is an indicator that his mindset is not one that GRRM will put on the Iron Throne. He also believes he deserves the throne, but if you pay attention to ASOIAF, nobody ever gets what they deserve. If they did, Jaime and Cersei would be dead, Stannis would already be on the throne, Ned would be alive, Jon would know who his parents were, Walder Frey would be hanging in a gibbet, and Littlefinger would be rotting in a dungeon somewhere. Bad deeds go unpunished all the time, and as a result, Stannis' quest for justice makes him more of a Don Quixote than a King Arthur in this series. He's just as much a fool as Patchface or Butterbumps.

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You know what? I remember why I don't post on internet forums anymore now. People can't separate their own feelings from those of the characters that they watch on television, and take any slight at their favorites as a personal attack.

First of all, check my second post, where I mention that I'm making these statements based on what GRRM apparently values. People who live by hard and fast rules (Ned's honor code, for example) don't survive his stories. Stannis likes nothing more than the letter of the law. He is not unfit to rule because he corrects the grammar of others (like an asshole), but his correction is an indicator that his mindset is not one that GRRM will put on the Iron Throne. He also believes he deserves the throne, but if you pay attention to ASOIAF, nobody ever gets what they deserve. If they did, Jaime and Cersei would be dead, Stannis would already be on the throne, Ned would be alive, Jon would know who his parents were, Walder Frey would be hanging in a gibbet, and Littlefinger would be rotting in a dungeon somewhere. Bad deeds go unpunished all the time, and as a result, Stannis' quest for justice makes him more of a Don Quixote than a King Arthur in this series. He's just as much a fool as Patchface or Butterbumps.

Oh, unbunch your knickers already you silly person you ;)

You've been reading a different series. Given that all we get to rely on are other's POVs, but Stannis is a very different character from where he began Your grand axiom that no one gets justice in Westeros is disproven by the stubborn and relentless determination he espouses, but also his surprisingly flexible ability to adapt. He's shown operational adaptability in managing to sail his army thousands of miles and march it hundreds through a wilderness of snow. He's shown ideological flexibility in his deals with various factions, keeping one side of his army from needlessly antagonizing the other with their religious fervor, all while subduing traitors, making deals with the Iron bank and very effectively turning a disadvantage to definite advantage in the coming Battle for Winterfell.

He's shown personal flexibility with his gradual opening to Ser Davos, a man who despite taking matters into his own hand and countermanding Stannis's decrees, Stannis continues to see the value in and rewards accordingly. A Don Quixote type as you say would have executed Davos in his "inflexible" quest for justice and likely gone down fighting at the Blackwater. He furthers his growth by not only taking a bastard Lord Commander into his confidence but also listening to the wisdom of true notherners in planning his next move. A Don Quixote type would have just marched on the Dreadfort and died.

And you know what? He's actually delivering some justice to Westeros. Far from tilting at windmills, he's saved the Night's Watch, liberated Deepwood Motte and managed to form a tentative alliance (in the person of his agent Davos) with the Manderly's to see a Stark revival and a North free of the Boltons. Far from your hopeless nihilistic take on GRRM's message, it actually seems more hopeful that the irons been forged into steel and is sharp enough to be used.

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LOTR was loved by nearly everyone because nearly everyone watched the movies first. LOTR is from a whole another generation even.

My goodness, am I that old? And, um, no - sure, I guess many people under the age of thirty today saw the films before they read the books, but the LOTR books were very well known, and very widely read, long before the films came out. The Lord of the Rings books were far, far better known when the films came out than GRRM's books were when the HBO series started. HBO has helped move GRRM's books from niche-interest to world famous; the LOTR books were already there, long before the films.

Stannis and "fewer": I loved his repeated grammar correction here. I also loved the way he echoes his earlier conversation with Davos: I forget what he actually says in this week's episode, but the basic tone in replying to Davos is "Oh, never mind. I've given up on your proper use of English."

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My goodness, am I that old? And, um, no - sure, I guess many people under the age of thirty today saw the films before they read the books, but the LOTR books were very well known, and very widely read, long before the films came out. The Lord of the Rings books were far, far better known when the films came out than GRRM's books were when the HBO series started. HBO has helped move GRRM's books from niche-interest to world famous; the LOTR books were already there, long before the films.

This - so true.

Also, the LotRs story had been adapted (or half adapted) previously in film.

This is not to say the ASoIaF saga would never have become as widely known as the LotRs saga, on it's own merits - but now we will never know, because the show has already become more widely known.

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on Stannis being stubbornly bound to the letter of the law: that is surely why he burned Davos for spiriting away the bastard Edric Storm - oh wait he made him hand after that.



on the joke in the series: I acutally LOLed, so at least some people thought it was funny. What's more, I think it is far from a repetition of the same conversation in S2. Back then, when Davos asked "what", he explained the grammar issue. Now, he says "forget it". I think this is a good subtle hint at how he has changed as a character, away from the more rigid black/white-seer of the past to the more flexible, utterly pragmatic Stannis of now. Nice touch.



We can disect every word of the novel and base theories on punctuation use, but we don't look for any subtle clues that D&D might have put into the show? Give the guys some credit. Thinking that the show runners of the most successful show of our times are a bunch of lazy idiots is just embarrassing.


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This - so true.

Also, the LotRs story had been adapted (or half adapted) previously in film.

This is not to say the ASoIaF saga would never have become as widely known as the LotRs saga, on it's own merits - but now we will never know, because the show has already become more widely known.

You mean this https://youtu.be/YdXQJS3Yv0Y

Or Bakshi's adaptation? ;)

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And how much does Stannis respect Jon Snow? So much they don't even show us bargaining with him for the use of the man's navy. Stannis is like "Here's my ships. Please return them so I can use them for the whole Iron Throne thing later" and then Jon Snows thanks him, followed by a manly pause of mutual respect.



As someone who loved the dynamic in the books between them, and similar dynamics across fiction, these two are great together. My Stannis dream team usually has Davos and Jon Snow playing his ultimate advisers.



And while they're obviously putting Shireen on course for something horrible, after last week I am confident that Papa Bear Baratheon will either fight to the death to stop it, or if it happens, will avenge it with all the tranquil fury he is famous for :)


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