Why is Cersei different?

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

None of the Lannister children are saints.

But of all three of them Cersei seems the cruelest, the most egotistical, and the one most deficient in empathy and compassion.

Jaime pushed Bran out of a window. Tyrion killed his mistress in cold blood and raped Illyrio's slave girl. But then again, Jaime saved Brienne from being raped ( a woman he had disgust and contempt for), and expressed compassion for Jeyne Westering as well as Tyrion growing up.

Tyrion gave paralyzed Bran a special riding saddle, and stopped Sansa from being beaten and humiliated, as well as expressing sorrow for her family deaths. The good Jaime and Tyrion did does not wash out the bad. Yet the good remains.

Unless Im forgetting something, I don't recall Cersei ever expressing warmth or compassion for any other human in the series. She seems to hate everything and everyone that isn't her kids, her father or her twin, thinking of many abusive and cruel terms for them. She gives other women to her doctor Frankenstein, neglects and comes up with cruel punishments for the small folk, and is just a royal pain in the neck to most people.

In fact Ned, the one person who nearly got her killed is referred to almost positivley as "an honest but loyal fool."

So why is Cersei Baratheon so bent out of shape?

[Trigger Warning]

Some people are arseholes?

[Dofs]

Some of Tywin's seed was defective? :drunk:

[Claire of House Thorpe]

She's a total witch who cares for no one but herself.

[TheLightning Lord]

She has the taint.

[Balerion the kitten]

Cause we need chapters of a women dipping into madness. And hopefully in a winds, mad king level 50.

[LordStoneheart]

Evil queen. That's pretty much it. There needs to be a villain who is unambiguous, and Cersei and Tywin are the faces of that.

So why is Cersei Baratheon so bent out of shape?

There is no Cersei Baratheon in this series.

[Alex Storm]

All the brains went to Tyrion

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Neither Tyrion nor Jaime are truly different. All three want to be admired, in a very selfish way.

The difference is that Cersei wants/wanted to be admired by Tywin, while Jaime wanted to be admired by Arthur Dayne and Cersei, lately transferring to Brienne, and Tyrion wants to be admired by Jaime and the very small group he considers his equals (at one point or the other including Cat and Sansa).

[Dofs]

Neither Tyrion nor Jaime are truly different. All three want to be admired, in a very selfish way.

The difference is that Cersei wants/wanted to be admired by Tywin, while Jaime wanted to be admired by Arthur Dayne and Cersei, lately transferring to Brienne, and Tyrion wants to be admired by Jaime and the very small group he considers his equals (at one point or the other including Cat and Sansa).

That's stretching it a lot. The same way almost anyone wants to be admired by someone.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Nope. The selfishness is the big difference.

[Valyrian Fork]

Nurture plays a big role in personality formation; the caregivers, teachers, mentors, and other authority figures who raise a child play a big role in who they grow up to be. As a girl, Cersei was literally raised by different people than her brothers. We see it in the case of the Stark girls: their primary teacher is Septa Mordane, but the boys are taught by Maester Luwin, and have other male teachers and mentors who have little to do with the girls. Part of the differences between Arya and Sansa is that Arya hangs out with the smallfolk and their families, meaning while she and Sansa both feel the influence of Septa Mordane, in Arya's case it's mitigated somewhat and she's exposed to influences that Sansa isn't.

Tywin seems considerably more gender essentialist and class-consciousness than even Cat, who is notably worse than Ned, so doubtless the difference in education and role models between Cersei and Jaime and Tyrion was even more stark.

Imagine what AGoT Sansa would have been like if there'd been nothing at all to mitigate the influence of Septa Mordane, and it had been compounded with the Lannister sense of entitlement and not the Stark sense of honor and endurance and the Tully sense of family and duty. AGoT Sansa was absolutely insufferable, Cersei would have been a million times worse.

[EternET]

Why is she deprived of ampathic actions : because first she feels entitled and slighted compared to her twin, and the males in general=> You have a little harder time to concider other's misfortune if your own troubles are all you are about.

She heard a prophecy about herself, and everything she holds dear : her position, her children, etc... And she's realizing it's being fulfilled : She sees others as the fulfillement of this dark future = enemies = antipathy much ?

[The Wolves]

Neither Tyrion nor Jaime are truly different. All three want to be admired, in a very selfish way.

The difference is that Cersei wants/wanted to be admired by Tywin, while Jaime wanted to be admired by Arthur Dayne and Cersei, lately transferring to Brienne, and Tyrion wants to be admired by Jaime and the very small group he considers his equals (at one point or the other including Cat and Sansa).

So much word. Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion are very much alike, Tyrion and Jaime can and have been just as cruel as Cersei, they have been dismissive of the pain and suffering of the smallfolk. And just like Cersei they suck just as much the only difference is that GRRM haven't really writen Cersi in a sympathetic light as much as the other two.

[Dofs]

Nope. The selfishness is the big difference.

'Selfishness' is a nice word but so overused, it literally gets stuck to anything to add negativity wherever possible, to the point of it losing any meaning. So Tyrion wanting to be admired by some people is selfish, others wanting to be admired by some is not. Jaime wanting to be admired by the likes of Arthur Dayne is selfish, Brienne wanting to be admire by such is, I guess, not. Is Stannis wanting to be admired the same as Robert was 'selfish'? Or Davos wanting to be admired by Stannis?

And Jaime wanted to be admired by Cersei? That's like saying that Dany wanted to be admired by Drogo. And that it was selfish.

[Connartist92]

Bitches be crazy.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Neither Tyrion nor Jaime are truly different. All three want to be admired, in a very selfish way.

The difference is that Cersei wants/wanted to be admired by Tywin, while Jaime wanted to be admired by Arthur Dayne and Cersei, lately transferring to Brienne, and Tyrion wants to be admired by Jaime and the very small group he considers his equals (at one point or the other including Cat and Sansa).

You see no difference? truly? What about Tyrion and Jaime's moments of unsolicited compassion?

Tyrion gained nothing from giving Bran a riding saddle. The Stark's already hated him and he likely never would see any of them again. He didn't do it for a selfish reason he just has compassion for "cripples, bastards, and broken things." Because he has been marginalized for most of his life, he has some compassion for people who are marginalized.

He didn't really gain anything for standing up for Sansa against Joffrey, he just thought his cruelty to her was repulsive and acted accordingly.

Jaime thought Brienne was a dumb, lumbering ox of a woman but yet the thought of her being raped troubled him and he lied to buy her time. I can promise you if Cersei were in his position she wouldn't have tried to help, and likely would have giggled at the thought of Brienne being attacked. Or thought, since she was such a homely woman and likely didn't get much action, she should be grateful for the opportunity. Think Im exaggerating? Its what she thought in AFFC when she heard of a Septa being attacked.

Apart from their moments of kindness, Tyrion and Jaime "play well with others." Even though they are both Lord Tywin's sons, they can treat other people, even the lowborn with some amount of decency and respect. Tyrion treated Pod and Bronn well and palled around with both of them.

Jaime seemed to be quite popular in the Riverlands, and even treated the Lannister squires well, and indulged their admiration/reverence of the Kingslayer.

Cersei is utterly different from Tyrion and Jaime in this respect. Perhaps because she never had to do anything except be pretty and marriageable, she never had to learn to develop people skills. The only time she is nice to people is if they flatter her or say she is great ( see Taena Merrywhether :drool: :drool: )

For the record, I believe the only person who is truly loyal to her at this point is Qyburn.

[Rohed]

Bitches be crazy.

This!

[Night's Princess]

It's because she's a girl. She feels cheated out of her birthright (Casterly Rock, she's the eldest iirc) by the fact that she is a girl and HUGELY overcompensates by seeking power avidly and trying to emulate her father who is not the best role model. She didn't even have a good female role model growing up, as her mother died giving birth to Tyrion. She was trying to be Tywin, and she just can't be.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Nurture plays a big role in personality formation; the caregivers, teachers, mentors, and other authority figures who raise a child play a big role in who they grow up to be. As a girl, Cersei was literally raised by different people than her brothers. We see it in the case of the Stark girls: their primary teacher is Septa Mordane, but the boys are taught by Maester Luwin, and have other male teachers and mentors who have little to do with the girls. Part of the differences between Arya and Sansa is that Arya hangs out with the smallfolk and their families, meaning while she and Sansa both feel the influence of Septa Mordane, in Arya's case it's mitigated somewhat and she's exposed to influences that Sansa isn't.

Tywin seems considerably more gender essentialist and class-consciousness than even Cat, who is notably worse than Ned, so doubtless the difference in education and role models between Cersei and Jaime and Tyrion was even more stark.

Imagine what AGoT Sansa would have been like if there'd been nothing at all to mitigate the influence of Septa Mordane, and it had been compounded with the Lannister sense of entitlement and not the Stark sense of honor and endurance and the Tully sense of family and duty. AGoT Sansa was absolutely insufferable, Cersei would have been a million times worse.

This is interesting and seems on mark.

And yet for reasons I can't explain,

I struggle with forgiving Sansa, while finding delight in

Cersei's over the top bitchiness.