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Xray the Enforcer

[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion v. 2

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How exactly is a penis joke on par with what happened to Sansa?

And no, both did not happen in the books. Jeyne was raped, not Sansa. Characters are not interchangeable. I think the best example that's been bought up is: Imagine for a second that Tyrion was put in the plot of Maester Kerwin (who is raped by the Ironborn). Would anyone see that as anything but gratuitous? Even though Tyrion's plot requires far less changing than Sansa's did to put him in that position?

If Jeyne had to be cut there was absolutely no need to have that scene in the show. But they went out of their way to keep it in, while far larger parts of the novels lie on the cutting room floor, sacrificing all logic to get there and destroying a character arc in the process. They planned this for years. That is the complaint people have.

Indeed. Apparently they thought "Well! There's a minor character who is abused in the book. She has no relation to Theon. Say, why don't we put Sansa there and have her be raped, to cause so much DRAMA and SHOCK?"

"Good idea man, everyone will talk about this on twitterz, this will cause so much fuss! Plus we will have "reunited" Theon and Sansa, who in the books don't have much of a bond anyway! Sansa forgiving Theon and getting over her rape will show so much growth! We are geniuses!"

It says a lot about them that they thought a character as Sansa was interchangeable in such a storyline. For the sake of shock.

Edited by Aleenys

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I LOVE IT!! You've found the perfect solution. :lmao:

And endless gif of the sandsnakes fighting would be fitting.

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Children cannot consent. And unless you want to get banned, you'll look up the forum policy on denying rape.

LOL Oh please, don't 'help.' Then again, who am I to complain if people enjoy sparring with low brows living under bridges, right? ;)

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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Given the fact that is almost a certainty, not really. It makes her character even more tragic.

She lets the child live and then the Bolton's have won: their bloodline has a direct claim to Winterfell. Even if she kills them all, she has forever linked House Stark to House Bolton.

Or she kills the child (so far apart from Moontea we have not seen any abortions) and then becomes a monster with a hollow victory.

This, too. Even if we set aside the soul destroying trauma of this marriage (which her family would never want for her), and the complete stupidity of it, since she's already a Stark, and the whole reason Robb wrote the will was because he didn't want this to happen...

She provides the family killers with an heir so they can kill her, too! That will teach them!

Robb and Alys both said that's what happens, they get the heir, they kill the mother:

"Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her."

"Once Cregan gets a child by me they won’t need me anymore. He’s buried two wives already."

Edited by Le Cygne

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LOL Oh please, don't 'help.' Then again, who am I to complain if people enjoy sparring with low brows living under bridges, right? ;)

I bet you think the use of wildfire at the Battle of Blackwater breached the Geneva Convention on chemical weapons.

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You seem to be forgetting that most people in the books think Jeyne is Arya Stark.

I haven't forgotten at all. In fact, a poster I can't remember (on one of those locked threads) mentioned there may be parallels to Asha Greyjoy being married by Euron using a seal to stand in for her when she fled the Kingsmoot and Jeyne Poole as a stand in for Arya. I'm not saying George will go there, but the game of faces part of Arya's training would make her the best Stark to wrap her brain around what the Boltons are about with the flaying. If anyone could pose a real threat to Ramsay, it's her. We'll have to wait for TWOW to find out tho.

So what do D&D do? They replace fake Arya with Sansa, whose learning arc is about political intrigue in Winterfell with no Manderlys, nobody but the Boltons; no Abel and spearwives, basically setting her up to fail.

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The bullshit piles up, and all that's left is, they wanted Sansa to get raped.



RAMSAY had this storyline they loved and they wanted to USE Sansa. That's what they said. That's what they did.


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So what do D&D do? They replace fake Arya with Sansa, whose learning arc is about political intrigue in Winterfell with no Manderlys, nobody but the Boltons; no Abel and spearwives, basically setting her up to fail.

She has Theon, Brienne and the Northern loyalists (just light a candle in the tower). It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. For me it's a great improvement on her book arc.

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I'm not saying George will go there, but the game of faces part of Arya's training would make her the best Stark to wrap her brain around what the Boltons are about with the flaying. If anyone could pose a real threat to Ramsay, it's her. We'll have to wait for TWOW to find out tho.

So what do D&D do? They replace fake Arya with Sansa, whose learning arc is about political intrigue in Winterfell with no Manderlys, nobody but the Boltons; no Abel and spearwives, basically setting her up to fail.

Yep. Sansa's storyline actually applies to the Game of Thrones, she's learning how to bring down Littlefinger. But no need, just throw her into a melodramatic sacrificial virgin raped by the devil low budget horror flick.

Why not Arya replacing fArya? Then they could have kept the very dramatic Jon and Arya storyline (a much better storyline than the Ramsay storyline they LOVED), where he's motivated by the love of his little sister.

As he's dying, saying stick them with the pointy end, Arya could stick Ramsay with the pointy end.

Edited by Le Cygne

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For me it's a great improvement on her book arc.

I don't really care for book Sansa either, but even if you're going to look at it that way, and even if you're going to gloss over the whole rape issue, it's not an improvement on Sansa's book arc it's a fucking butchery of the Northern book arc.

I'd much rather have Manderly and the Freys and a couple Vale scenes to remind us Sansa exists.

Edited by Facebookless Man

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Yep. Sansa's storyline actually applies to the Game of Thrones, she's learning how to bring down Littlefinger.

By covering up for him? Book bleed again.

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The bullshit piles up, and all that's left is, they wanted Sansa to get raped.

RAMSAY had this storyline they loved and they wanted to USE Sansa. That's what they said. That's what they did.

Ramsay has to reach his low point here so that his redemption resonates with viewers. That's storytelling 101.

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I don't really care for book Sansa, but even if you're going to look at it that way, and even if you're going to gloss over the whole rape issue, it's not an improvement on Sansa's book arc it's a fucking butchery of the Northern book arc.

I'd nuch rather have Manderly and a couple Vale scenes to remind us Sansa exists.

They've even said themselves, Sansa is LF's one weakness. So what do they do? Separate them.

Have her take the place of a minor character in a plot with characters she's never interacted with and is ill prepared to face.

Darth Sheep is driven to the slaughterhouse, from episodes 1 to 6. The sacrificial virgin has been brutally raped by the devil.

I'd rather have Manderly and a couple of Vale scenes, too.

Edited by Le Cygne

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She has Theon, Brienne and the Northern loyalists (just light a candle in the tower). It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. For me it's a great improvement on her book arc.

So you think Sansa getting raped is an improvement on her arc in the books?

Next phase version 1: She spends a small amount of time in depression and then finds some strength out of nowhere and instigates vengeance on the Boltons.

Next phase version 2: She becomes the Jeyne Poole of the books. Broken, demoralised, in constant fear and incapable of human intimacy. She needs saving from this 'Winterhell' and Theon finds himself and whisks her away when Stannis' forces arrive.

Version 1 is not in keeping with the way GRRM tries to deal realistically with horrific events. One reason for the wide appeal of ASOIAF/GOT outside of the usual fantasy crowd is this attempt to deal realistically with its situations and treat them seriously. This version is more in line with Exploitation Movie writing, which is geared towards shock value and extremism. This is what I believe they will go for. What has happened to Sansa will not be dealt with realistically.

Version 2 has destroyed Sansa's character development and leaves the writers, if they want to treat the subject matter seriously and deal realistically with the consequences of what happens, with a huge amount of work to do in establishing Sansa getting over what has happened to her. Jeyne Poole will never get over what has happened to her and the books will reflect this. I suspect D&D will not deal realistically with what has happened to Sansa and if they do then it beggars belief that anyone would want this to be her story line.

Both versions are bad choices for the story and bad choices for Sansa's character arc/development.

And this is to say nothing of the ridiculous contrivances they concocted to get Sansa in this position.

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Ramsay has to reach his low point here so that his redemption resonates with viewers. That's storytelling 101.

:lol: And they are such good storytellers! My hat is off to them.

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It's okay, in a couple episodes she'll be over it...

No doubt. Empowerment! Unless they go there with the Rosemary's Baby subplot.

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Both versions are bad choices for the story and bad choices for Sansa's character arc/development.

They had to get that character out of the Vale and away from LF. They just don't have the luxury of taking 6 huge novels worth of time to do it. Sansa's arc, as it is written in the books, is just unfilmable. All sitting around and internal monologue. Fine in a novel, boring on film.

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They had to get that character out of the Vale and away from LF. They just don't have the luxury of taking 6 huge novels worth of time to do it. Sansa's arc, as it is written in the books, is just unfilmable. All sitting around and internal monologue. Fine in a novel, boring on film.

It was not unfilmable. In fact they did film it in S4. They just rushed through it. Why not take a bit more time in S4 before Lysa's death, setting up someone to take the fall? Then have that guys trial and the lord's declarant in S5? You could sideline her for most of the season, just give her 4 or 5 episodes.

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