Aerys Blackfyre Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't know... the tv show is pretty messed up at the moment, probably she'll trust him and they will gve no explaination at all, as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Emperor of Yi Ti Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 And why would Tyrion work against a nephew he loves? Its an excellent question, as valid for the Books as the Show. And the Show is going to have to have to address it first. on Tyrion's side, they have already set up some of the pros [ Varys' speech at the beginning of the season] and cons [ tyrions question in 5x06]. I expect that will be developed slightly in the next two episodes, but ultimately curtailed by Daznak's On Dany's side, the presence of a Barristan based hole in her council will play a part, but in truth she will still be very conflicted on the topic [ the wheel speech] and unsure of her ability to do what it takes to rule anywhere[ hence she will flee on Drogon]. I expect her return to a city ran by Tyrion and Greyworm will be where the show ties in to the books [ assuming Barristan dies in battle, like people think] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Emperor of Yi Ti Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The bigger question is why would Jorah think that Dany gives a shit about Tyrion enough to forgive him his past sins? At this point Tyrion does not care if his nephew is king. He would think the best thing for Tommen is to abdicate and go live out his life as the Lord of Casterly Rock. If that can be achieved, and if he can save his niece as well that's the only family Tyrion wants to be saved. i'd say thats the way he will frame it. Sadly neither of them will be saveable, in all probability dead before he ever meets them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Emperor of Yi Ti Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 All of this happens because Tyrion's plot needs Griff. In show, we're meant to believe that Varys' plan considers Tyrion to be a great and important part of his plan, and that Dany is in desperate need of him and her eyes would lighten up at the sight of him. In books, Dany is not only a secondary part of the plan, but Tyrion can never reach so high with Griff being Aegon's Hand. That's why when Tyrion tells Griff how he plans to be helpful to Dany, he practically rolls his eyes. The only reason Dany would accept Tyrion is because they are also going with a Targaryen suitor and an army. They can be trusted so she can trust what she's given.Once he escapes and he's taken by Jorah, he ends up with the Second Sons. He's practically doing what Griff and Varys were supposed to do (but aren't actually doing), and what Victarion is also doing: impress her by working on her favour. He won't go to her saying "look! I'm Tyrion!" but "look! I making men fight for you!". Dany trusting him will rely on Tyrion's actions that will benefit her at the moment, not his name or past deeds. Why would she care that he fought for the Baratheon/Lannister alliance? Remind me of the part of the discussion regarding Griff in the famous overheard by Arya conversation between Ilyrio and Varys. Oh thats right , there was no mention....maybe they chatted about that earlier..... Young Griff is glaringly obviously a Lambert Simnel composite. A subplot introduced in book 5 of an supposed 7 book series. You also miss the point that in all likelihood by the time Tyrion meets Dany in the books, he wont' be just or only controlling the second sons, he will be holding the gates of the city after Barristan's death. Which [ barring the bit of feeling each other out they will do for the next episode or 2] exactly where show Dany and Tyrion will start their substantive dealings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 He'll probably explain that Varys (friend of Illyrio) helped him get to her.Feel like associating your name with Varys' is the opposite of what you'd want to do at this point. Dany knows him only as a spy who tried to kill her. Going to need direct contact with Illyrio to bridge that gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Tyrion is pretty good at persuading people not to kill him. Danny's current problem is how to rule what she has already, not how to invade Westeros. Tyrion has no family conflict there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlom Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Feel like associating your name with Varys' is the opposite of what you'd want to do at this point. Dany knows him only as a spy who tried to kill her. Going to need direct contact with Illyrio to bridge that gap. Dany only knows that Jorah spyed for somebody. She doesn't know the man behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Was Jorah not referred to as Varys' or the Spider's spy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 What Dany knows about Tyrion is that he was sentenced to die for killing Joffrey, his nephew, and that he killed Tywin, his father, in his escape. I don't think she'll much question his hatred of his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nastydream Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Was Jorah not referred to as Varys' or the Spider's spy? Yes he was If I can remember from 4x08 he said I was the spider's spy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 There was a hypothesis that Tyrion would offer lots of dragon taming advice. In book 1 he was made out to be a dragon fanatic and studied them extensively. Among his skills, he could also design a good saddle for seating a dragon being that he designed a special saddle for himself and Bran. That's the most immediate and visible help he could give and that's how he could make himself useful and show results in a quantitative way. Results talk better than words. For stuff like political advice, he would need time to earn Dany's trust. His skills in the political arena will not be immediately known, also she has more reasons to distrust him in this aspect anyway. I have the same theory that this is why we were shown Tyrion knowing how to design a special saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion the Perfect Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 She'll trust him because the plot demands it. Seriously, who does she have around her that even remotely appears to be a reliable advisor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Tyrion is one of the only two living persons who has held the office of Hand of the King. He is the only living person who has demonstrated competence in the position. Danny does not have a single experienced advisor. Tyrion has undoubtedly discussed the same with Varys during the more comfortable part of the journey. He knows some of the issues Danny faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltire Knight Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Good question. It seems likely that Tyrion will talk his way into her counsel as D&D made room for him by killing off Barristan Selmy a while back. We will have to see what persuasive argument he comes up with. Regards Tyrion's motives for helping Dany, that seems somewhat more clear. He has burned his bridges with his family and is very angry and bitter about the lot of them. In the books he even tells Jaime that he did kill Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yeah, the whole Varys and Dany is one gaping plot hole that hasn't been addressed yet. Varys tells Tyrion that Dany is the one he wants to rule and yet he tried to have her poisoned. The only thing he could say is that Jorah knew about the poison and it was just for show so that King Bob would think he tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlom Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yeah, the whole Varys and Dany is one gaping plot hole that hasn't been addressed yet. Varys tells Tyrion that Dany is the one he wants to rule and yet he tried to have her poisoned. The only thing he could say is that Jorah knew about the poison and it was just for show so that King Bob would think he tried. Can't remember. Was ist really Varys who ordered this? Did he mention this anytime? In the books Varys only wanted Jorah to watch and Dany should not get harmed. Or was it really some kind of show for Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud RR Martin Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I do not understand the "OMG it's Tyrion!!" look on Dany's face during the reveal. I would have expected more of a "who?" and "why should I care?" look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I do not understand the "OMG it's Tyrion!!" look on Dany's face during the reveal. I would have expected more of a "who?" and "why should I care?" look. the look is not because of "OMG its tyrion" its because he is a "Lannister " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud RR Martin Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 the look is not because of "OMG its tyrion" its because he is a "Lannister " Go on. Why does she care? Feed him to a dragon and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Go on. Why does she care? Feed him to a dragon and move on. i dont think that she looks at him in awe like tyrion did with Drogon because dany is not the type of person who just do things on a whim she speaks to them asks questions then decide ... take MMD--she asked about her medical practice when MMd offered to help Drogo ..even after Drogo and Rheago died ...she first had an discussion why she did it Take BBP --she speaks with him and she understands why he did Take jorah and Barristan selmy --she has again asks them the reasons ..then take action.. and from promo we know she will be doing the same with tyrion and then decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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