Reuben Stoneheart Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Blah blah blah nothing to see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon10 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No spoilers, and no talking about leaked vids! Better edit your post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That's true, there are lots of crazy theories, but you didn't answer the question. If it comes straight from the books, then George also just did it for shock value, right? It depends on how George does it in the books (if he does it at all). If George has Stannis agree to it/ play an active role in it and/or has Davos go along with it (and continue to follow Stannis afterwords), than yes you could make a solid case that George did it for shock value because it would require those two characters to act way out of character just so he could have the shocking moment (it could also possibly depend on other context that the author provides or fails to provide). If however, George has Mel and Selyse burn Shireen at the Wall without Stannis' approval and without Davos going along with it, than not so much. Apples and Oranges. The way the show has things set up with Davos, Mel, Selyse, and Shireen all in Stannis' camp, it would require Davos and Stannis to act out of character. Same result, but different circumstances. Context and character motivations matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That's true, there are lots of crazy theories, but you didn't answer the question. If it comes straight from the books, then George also just did it for shock value, right? It would be tough for GRRM, within the scope of the last two books to change the characters of the people involved sufficiently to make such a thing even believable and not some stupid deux es machina to accomplish some other purpose, I don't think he could do it and make it consistent with the characterizations he has created over the past 5 books and don't think he will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon10 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Blah blah blah nothing to see here Thanks. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It depends on how George does it in the books (if he does it at all). If George has Stannis agree to it/ play an active role in it and/or has Davos go along with it (and continue to follow Stannis afterwords), than yes you could make a solid case that George did it for shock value because it would require those two characters to act way out of character just so he could have the shocking moment (it could also possibly depend on other context that the author provides or fails to provide). If however, George has Mel and Selyse burn Shireen at the Wall without Stannis' approval and without Davos going along with it, than not so much. Apples and Oranges. The way the show has things set up with Davos, Mel, Selyse, and Shireen all in Stannis' camp, it would require Davos and Stannis to act out of character. Same result, but different circumstances. Context and character motivations matter. It would be tough for GRRM, within the scope of the last two books to change the characters of the people involved sufficiently to make such a thing even believable and not some stupid deux es machina to accomplish some other purpose, I don't think he could do it and make it consistent with the characterizations he has created over the past 5 books and don't think he will do it. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It depends on how George does it in the books (if he does it at all). If George has Stannis agree to it/ play an active role in it and/or has Davos go along with it (and continue to follow Stannis afterwords), than yes you could make a solid case that George did it for shock value because it would require those two characters to act way out of character just so he could have the shocking moment (it could also possibly depend on other context that the author provides or fails to provide). If however, George has Mel and Selyse burn Shireen at the Wall without Stannis' approval and without Davos going along with it, than not so much. Apples and Oranges.The way the show has things set up with Davos, Mel, Selyse, and Shireen all in Stannis' camp, it would require Davos and Stannis to act out of character. Same result, but different circumstances. Context and character motivations matter. There's no chance book-Selyse goes along with it. She's hardly the greatest mother but that doesn't mean she'd just kill her own daughter. If Shireen dies, Patchface is probably involved. And I wouldn't put it past Melisandre either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon316 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well since its a fictional charecter being burnt at the stake i will watch. I dont understand why we get so worked up emotionally over a tv show...and shireens horrible mother will be the only one trying to save her in the end will that make it better or worse for the emotional people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Forrester Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm still convinced she won't burn and if it is looking increasingly likely then Davos better well save her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 There's no chance book-Selyse goes along with it. She's hardly the greatest mother but that doesn't mean she'd just kill her own daughter. If Shireen dies, Patchface is probably involved. And I wouldn't put it past Melisandre either. I'm not convinced that there's no chance. When her own brother was burned she seemed to consider it an incredible honour for him to be given to the flames. IIRC? I realise it's not quite the same situation but her fanaticism seems on a whole other level of devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm not convinced that there's no chance. When her own brother was burned she seemed to consider it an incredible honour for him to be given to the flames. IIRC? I realise it's not quite the same situation but her fanaticism seems on a whole other level of devotion. Isn't that just from the show? She's a fanatic, but not a "burn my daughter alive" fanatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSansa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Im not gonna watch the episode when it airs for various reasons (dont want to watch it in the living room with my mom in the same room). Assuming something this bad happens I prefer watching it late at night when everyones asleep. I will however be reading the reactions on the discussion thread. First time I have done this...but I feel too burnt out now and dont really want to watch it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 There's no chance book-Selyse goes along with it. She's hardly the greatest mother but that doesn't mean she'd just kill her own daughter. If Shireen dies, Patchface is probably involved. And I wouldn't put it past Melisandre either.Yep. book!Selyse is a little zealous, but she's shown far more interest in Shireen than book!Stannis ever has. It would actually be more out of character for her to burn Shireen than Stannis. If Mel burns Shireen in the books, I doubt she'll go with it.As for Stan, if he does somehow get back to the wall, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he might actually do it. There's always been parallels to him and Agememnon, and I always ignored it because I didn't want it to happen so badly, but now I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yep. book!Selyse is a little zealous, but she's shown far more interest in Shireen than book!Stannis ever has. It would actually be more out of character for her to burn Shireen than Stannis. If Mel burns Shireen in the books, I doubt she'll go with it.As for Stan, if he does somehow get back to the wall, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he might actually do it. There's always been parallels to him and Agememnon, and I always ignored it because I didn't want it to happen so badly, but now I'm not so sure. Yep. And not to be too cynical or anything, but Selyse puts her own position at risk if she sacrifices Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Isn't that just from the show? She's a fanatic, but not a "burn my daughter alive" fanatic. Maybe. I thought that was pretty much lifted straight from the book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojji Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That's a fair point. Let's talk about the Shireen burning they did right before Hardhome... Wait, that's also a hypothetical based on a fan theory? Like a significant portion of these forums? Wow. Who knew? Well personally I'm still talking about it because the way you're avoiding the question is incredibly weird. It's a yes or no question, it REALLY shouldn't take you much thought. Like, at most a couple seconds. For instance, any one of your replies should have taken about 100x as long as thinking about the answer to that question should have. So, I'll try again, yes or no? Wow, I never even realised you still bothered to reply. You know what's incredibly weird? How much you seem to care about what I think. It's not a yes or no question, the show provided the context for us. Stannis is in full control, he's surrounded by men that are loyal to him and regard him as their king. Mel straight up asks Stannis if he's willing to burn his daughter. Unless they're gonna completely kill Stannis's character, this will never happen. Now in the books this scenario is not possible. Shireen is at the Wall with Mel. If Mel and the queens men, for some reason, burn Shireen in the future book then the context is again very important. Stannis nor Davos is there to protect her and I could accept it happening. Now back to the show - Both Davos and Stannis are there. If they burn Shireen while Stannis is still alive and he's still the king, there's no possible way they can go through with it without destroying Stannis as a character I hope this was good enough answer for you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yep. And not to be too cynical or anything, but Selyse puts her own position at risk if she sacrifices Shireen. That's a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe. I thought that was pretty much lifted straight from the book though. Definitely not. Her uncle, Alester Florent, was burned by Melisandre in the books before their journey to the Wall. But it doesn't happen on-screen and I can't recall if we even hear of Selyse's reaction to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Definitely not. Her uncle, Alester Florent, was burned by Melisandre in the books before their journey to the Wall. But it doesn't happen on-screen and I can't recall if we even hear of Selyse's reaction to it. I admit, the show twists my recollections at times, particularly with smaller characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If that happens, I will thanks messrs Benioff and Weiss for their time, don my cap and walk off into the sunset. Because fuck them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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