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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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Maybe its just me, but I see him portrayed as much MORE altruistic/honorable/noble in the show then in the novels. Could be bias though.

I agree. Varys is an A-hole. If he cared so much about the realm in the books, he wouldn't have fostered the civil war to begin with. Why not just sneak Ned Stark out? He knew Joffrey was going to kill him and all hell will break loose.

Varys is just like Littlefinger: creating Chaos so his end game (Faegon) can claim the iron throne.

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Lots of posts about whether Tyrion should have known that Aemon was dead yet and whether Tyrion remembered he's a Targ. I am not typically a show defender but here I actually think the show made the right call by having Tyrion say what was factually true when he said it, relative to the show timeline. The books are so great in part because you have to constantly think about who learned what when and from whom. The fun is in using this information to piece together the truth. That's not part of the show. For example, even many book readers wrongly remember Ned saying Jon is his bastard because that's what everyone else says, let alone expecting show viewers to have picked up on that.

I think having Tyrion say something about Aemon being alive would have been too confusing for show viewers who are not used to taking into account that characters believe the knowledge they have access to, which might be different than truth.

(Sorry for the late post. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and feel weird watching the show before it's dark, so I wait a couple hours.)

Edited by obsessedwithjon

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Yes they did. Him mentioning the Starks brought up an interesting idea in my mind. If he ever runs into Sansa again (assuming of course that Dany and Sansa meet), do you think he'd be conflicted about the side he is on?

I don't think conflict will come up actually because by the time such a thing happens I think the whole White Walkers thing will be in effect, and Dany will know more of who the Starks are (including and especially Sansa... and likely Ned) from Tyrion, so Dany won't be so quick to want to take them out.

At this point, I have to say, the Arya storyline isn't really working for me. Like, this episode lays out in obvious detail how Arya can poison that guy with ease and no risk to herself, and then the cliffhanger is whether Arya can go poison him? What kind of dramatic structure is that?

I have no idea what the fuck happened in that scene. Well, I got the obvious gist of it, but didn't catch the reason behind it all.

Arya is setup to kill the gambler but will run in to Sir Meryn and maybe will have to make a choice.

I think the point of the Arya/Thin Man set-up and the why of them was all explained in the scene between A Man and the Waif. They basically foreshadowed that Arya's not ready for this when the Waif said she wasn't and A Man said 'eh, the Many-Faced God cares or doesn't, whatevs! He has his plans.' So Arya is being sent on this mission not because she's ready or not but because the Many-Faced God has his reasons... which, of course, we imagine has to do with Sir Meryn Trant and what choice she'll make.

I took this news that Sansa heard as her realizing LF was wrong and she is NOT the last remaining Stark. Maybe she is starting to think that her life isnt as valuable as LF or the Boltons say it is.

I am not sure if I am correct on this one but if Sansa knows Bran and/or Rickon are indeed alive, does that mean she realizes Winterfell goes to them by law because they are Stark men?

Maybe she will start taking more risks with her life rather then "enduring" the misery she keeps going through.

I didn't see it that way at all. I don't think claims or the heir to Winterfell was on her mind at all. I saw a dawning joy beginning to bloom on her face at the realization that her brothers were actually ALIVE! It was a beautiful moment, probably my favorite Sansa moment yet.

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Lots of posts about whether Tyrion should have known that Aemon was dead yet and whether Tyrion remembered he's a Targ. I am not typically a show defender but here I actually think the show made the right call by having Tyrion say what was factually true when he said it, relative to the show timeline. The books are so great in part because you have to constantly think about who learned what when and from whom. The fun is in using this information to piece together the truth. That's not part of the show. For example, even many book readers wrongly remember Ned saying Jon is his bastard because that's what everyone else says, let alone expecting show viewers to have picked up on that.

I think having Tyrion say something about Aemon being alive would have been too confusing for show viewers who are not used to taking into account that characters believe the knowledge they have access to, which might be different than truth.

(Sorry for the late post. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and feel weird watching the show before it's dark, so I wait a couple hours.)

That's a good point. Also, in context, Tyrion was making a point. His point was that she has no allies. Like a good lawyer, he isn't going to point out a minor quibble--that there is technically a Targaryen still alive--because, assuming he knows Aemon's lineage, it doesn't bolster his point! Also, it's a quibble, because Aemon is a man of the Night's Watch and Maester, so he's not able to ally with anyone.

Characters aren't info-dumping machines in this series. In context, it made perfect sense why he said it.

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Seems like there are a couple of possibilities for why Jon et al are on the "wrong side" of the wall. 1) the rest of the wildlings are at CB. They all need to initially be grouped up with Tormund, lined out on the plan and consequences of bad behavior, and then taken down to settle the gift. Turning a bunch of wildlings loose by letting them through at EWBS could cause big trouble. 2) Wun Wun can't fit through the opening and so they have to cross at CB instead.

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At the battle of Hardhome I actualy wished Victarion to show up with Iron Fleet to save them.

Instead they replaced all of victarion and his fleet with people trying to row boats without oars with a soundtrack by men without hats

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Wait, Arya hasn't poisoned the banker yet, right? What we saw her giving him was only the vinegar he requested, and then later Jaqen gave her poison to kill the dude and the waif questioned if Arya could do it, no?


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Well done! Well done! Too many times this season I have been bemoaning stylistic choices that have been detrimental to the story but THIS is one change that has paid off big time. This is what DWD should have provided us with!!!

More importantly, how cool was the Night's King? George this is why when you have awesome characters you should use them. Stark staring down Stark/Targaryen? I'll take that over anything else on this show any day of the week!

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If only Areo Hotah were to behead the Sand Snakes.

Or maybe YarAsha and her 50 killers could do that. No dogs in Dorne.

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I did notice the cliff that the NK was standing on changed position depending on the camera shot about 3-4 times, oh well, still a great scene overall.


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Awesome episode!!! I'm thinking Jorah is gonna be Drogon's dinner in Daznak's pit. Wonder if that means Drogon gets greyscale?? Can dragons get human diseases??



NK was pretty cool as well. I'm now pretty sure he is a Stark from the way he looked at Jon.


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I didn't understand why Jorah wants to be in the pit again.


Make me think he has some plan, like killing Tyrion or Daario or Hizdahr.


I know it doesn't make much sense, but why else would he want to be a slave again?

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For all the hate the show gets (only some of it deserved) they really did show up and impress with this one. Too many purists will whine over every little change, most of them unavoidable and had to happen in order for the series to work. I loved the way they handled this episode. So great. The remaining episodes look to be just as awesome. Can't wait for them and hopefully for TWOW before next season.

I would say that most of the criticism is justified (some of the changes have been horrendous). But yeah this is the first legitimate case for criticizing George. This scene or its equivalent should have already happened in DWD.

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