Weirwood arrows... How do they work?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Living Weirwood trees are composed of leaves, sap, and wood. The leaves and sap are red, alive, flowing, but also ephemeral. The living force within the Weirwood is what allows it to reproduce. The wood, on the other hand, is the unliving but eternal husk that Weirwood leaves behind. It's white, incapable of conferring reproductive life, and static. In a sense it's "ice"; but ice itself is probably more of a symbol of the eternal and static rather than the living embodiment of otherliness. The otherliness is that eternal, undying, but unliving force. It's passionless, bloodless, but beautiful and strong.

Dragons, fire, etc., are to life and the leaves/sap of weirwood as the others, ice, and static eternal beauty are to the wood of the weirwood. When the Weirwood is alive, it's a combination of these two forces -- a song of ice and fire, so to speak. But when you take its wood and weaponize it, you're isolating the eternal, static (ice) side of the tree.

That's my take.

Works for me.

[Mithras]

Every House - North and South - should have had greenseers as a priestly class representing their religion - the religion of the Old Gods. This would have ended thousands of years ago, when the entire South converted to the religion of the Seven, and cut down all the weirwoods. With the old religion gone, so too would have gone the greenseers.

I think greenseers were extremely rare. There are skinchangers and woodswitches for the purpose of teaching the faith of the Old Gods. Like the one Varamyr recalled.

[RumHam]

We don't know that that was Brandon in Bran's vision carving the arrows for that purpose. I'm inclined to think it wasn't. If you were going on a super important mission to kill three dragons wouldn't you bring more than three arrows? He's just that confidant he won't miss?

[Free Northman Reborn]

True greenseers yes. They number 1 in a million people as per Leaf. But real life druids had no magical power whatsoever but nevertheless occupied positions as lorekeepers and priestly advisors.

Who performs ceremonial duties in the North? Weddings, funerals, birth blessings, manhood ceremonies, divinations, battle blessings, omen reading, harvest blessings weather prayers and the like?

Who even teaches people about the lore of the Old Gods? They all seem to know about the gods, but have no holy book nor any priests to teach them about the gods. So where do they learn about them? Old wives tales?

For people that clearly take their religion quite seriously, this role is seriously lacking.

Not to mention that the obvious middle ground between full on greenseers and total mundane lorekeepers, are skinchangers who still have very real powers which coupled with proper Old Gods lore would make them a very powerful priestly class. And they number one in a thousand people. Meaning there are a few thousand of them in the Northern population. Their potential just lies undiscovered.

[Mithras]

As I said, mostly the woods witches were doing the teaching and healing stuff.

Gone into the trees and streams, gone into the rocks and earth. Gone to dirt and ashes. That was what the woods witch told his mother, the day Bump died.

“Where are the rest of you?” Bran asked Leaf, once.

“Gone down into the earth,” she answered. “Into the stones, into the trees."

This is also an exact match with the experience of Varamyr as he died.

[jobmartell]

Too much magic makes jack a dull boy.

[three-eyed monkey]

Living Weirwood trees are composed of leaves, sap, and wood. The leaves and sap are red, alive, flowing, but also ephemeral. The living force within the Weirwood is what allows it to reproduce. The wood, on the other hand, is the unliving but eternal husk that Weirwood leaves behind. It's white, incapable of conferring reproductive life, and static. In a sense it's "ice"; but ice itself is probably more of a symbol of the eternal and static rather than the living embodiment of otherliness. The otherliness is that eternal, undying, but unliving force. It's passionless, bloodless, but beautiful and strong.

Dragons, fire, etc., are to life and the leaves/sap of weirwood as the others, ice, and static eternal beauty are to the wood of the weirwood. When the Weirwood is alive, it's a combination of these two forces -- a song of ice and fire, so to speak. But when you take its wood and weaponize it, you're isolating the eternal, static (ice) side of the tree.

That's my take.

I get what you're saying, Mitbert. But is the wood of a tree truly dead? The leaves, the sap, the bark, the wood, are all part of the living organism.

We don't know that that was Brandon in Bran's vision carving the arrows for that purpose. I'm inclined to think it wasn't. If you were going on a super important mission to kill three dragons wouldn't you bring more than three arrows? He's just that confidant he won't miss?

I think the three arrows is a literary clue that ties to Aegon's three dragons. According to AWoIaF, Brandon Snow planned to cross the Trident under the cover of darkness and kill the dragons while they slept. Shooting at sleeping dragons would increase his confidence in hitting his target. But yeah, I guess a spare arrow wouldn't hurt.

[RumHam]

Yeah. Especially since unless I'm mistaken he'd have to hit them in the eye to really do any damage to an adult dragon with it's hard scales everywhere else.

[Free Northman Reborn]

We don't know that that was Brandon in Bran's vision carving the arrows for that purpose. I'm inclined to think it wasn't. If you were going on a super important mission to kill three dragons wouldn't you bring more than three arrows? He's just that confidant he won't miss?

Well, you make the rather simplistic assumption that simply picking the branches from the weirwood tree and carving them into arrows is all that is required to kill a dragon. But that is unlikely. Knowing what we know about magic in Martin's world, all magic comes at a price. And the greater the magic, the greater the price. Only death can pay for life, for example, and only life for death.

More likely, therefore, the weirwood arrows need to each be annointed with a blood sacrifice - probably even a human sacrifice, to empower them. Maybe even kingly blood to kill a dragon, if it requires kingly blood to wake a dragon as we have been led to believe.

So with each arrow coming at a very high price, carving any more than are absolutely needed is simply not feasible or justifiable. Especially if the arrows are magically enhanced for accuracy, and somehow almost guaranteed of hitting their targets.

[RumHam]

Well, you make the rather simplistic assumption that simply picking the branches from the weirwood tree and carving them into arrows is all that is required to kill a dragon. But that is unlikely. Knowing what we know about magic in Martin's world, all magic comes at a price. And the greater the magic, the greater the price. Only death can pay for life, for example, and only life for death.

More likely, therefore, the weirwood arrows need to each be annointed with a blood sacrifice - probably even a human sacrifice, to empower them. Maybe even kingly blood to kill a dragon, if it requires kingly blood to wake a dragon as we have been led to believe.

So with each arrow coming at a very high price, carving any more than are absolutely needed is simply not feasible or justifiable. Especially if the arrows are magically enhanced for accuracy, and somehow almost guaranteed of hitting their targets.

I'm the one making assumptions? I never once said I thought Weirwood arrows would magically kill a dragon. We do know that any arrow can, fired with enough force into their eyes. You're the one assuming that guy in the vision was Brandon Snow and talking about magical dragon seeking arrows.

[Mithras]

Yeah. Especially since unless I'm mistaken he'd have to hit them in the eye to really do any damage to an adult dragon with it's hard scales everywhere else.

That is what Tyrion thinks but his knowledge about dragons are second hand or third hand or worse.

[RumHam]

That is what Tyrion thinks but his knowledge about dragons are second hand or third hand or worse.

I was actually basing that on what Gyldayn thinks, from The Princess and the Queen. But I stand corrected, at extreme close range it is possible to puncture through the scales.

Hundreds fled in terror from her flames … but hundreds more, drunk or mad or possessed of the Warrior’s own courage, pushed through to the attack. Even at the apex of the dome, the dragon was within easy reach of archer and crossbowman, and arrows and quarrels flew at Dreamfyre wherever she turned, at such close range that some few even punched through her scales.

Still Brandon would have to get dangerously close, and I'd put the odds of him taking out all three dragons in this manner with three arrows exceedingly low. There is the theory that once hit by a weirwood arrow dragons can then be controlled by a greenseer. But I'm not sure I buy into that either. "There is power in living wood" and sure weirwood doesn't rot, but do we have any evidence that objects carved of weirwood are somehow still connected to the weirwood network? (for lack of a better term.) Is a weirwood arrow "living wood?"

[Free Northman Reborn]

I'm the one making assumptions? I never once said I thought Weirwood arrows would magically kill a dragon. We do know that any arrow can, fired with enough force into their eyes. You're the one assuming that guy in the vision was Brandon Snow and talking about magical dragon seeking arrows.

You misunderstand me. You questioned why Brandon would make only 3 arrows, rather than 30.

I agree. In fact, if weirwood arrows were sufficient straight from the tree he should have made 3000 of them and equipped all his archers with them.

The reason for making only 3 must therefore be part of the magic. Each one is probably linked to a specific dragon, and powered by blood sacrifice.

The North and the Children's magic in particular is fundamentally linked to blood sacrifice. All their greatest magical feats required blood sacrifice. To shatter the Arm of Dorne they reportedly sacrificed a thousand of their own kind to empower the spell.

I am utterly convinced that Brandon's weirwood arrows would have required blood sacrifice as well. Thus explaining why he made specifically 3.

[BitsOfBrains]

Yeah. Especially since unless I'm mistaken he'd have to hit them in the eye to really do any damage to an adult dragon with it's hard scales everywhere else.

Wasn't there some quote from the red grass field where the Ravens teeth were using archery mixed with sorcery? Maybe each weir wood arrow had some spell that turned it into a sort of cruise arrow. Like an eye seeking weir wood dead green seer powered munition.

[RumHam]

You misunderstand me. You questioned why Brandon would make only 3 arrows, rather than 30. I agree. In fact, if weirwood arrows were sufficient straight from the tree he should have made 3000 of them and equipped all his archers with them.

The reason for making only 3 must therefore be part of the magic. Each one is probably linked to a specific dragon, and powered by blood sacrifice.

The North and the Children's magic in particular is fundamentally linked to blood sacrifice. All their greatest magical feats required blood sacrifice. To shatter the Arm of Dorne they reportedly sacrificed a thousand of their own kind to empower the spell.

I am utterly convinced that Brandon's weirwood arrows would have required blood sacrifice as well. Thus explaining why he made specifically 3.

Gotcha, that could be. I still don't think there's enough evidence that the pale hard dark-eyed youth Bran saw was this Brandon Snow. But it's certainly possible.

[RoamingRonin]

When did Bran see a vision of Brandon Snow making weirwood arrows?

I was actually basing that on what Gyldayn thinks, from The Princess and the Queen. But I stand corrected, at extreme close range it is possible to puncture through the scales.

Right. Tyrion isn't exactly wrong though: Meraxes was brought down with a scorpion through the eye. I don't think he ever says it's impossible to puncture the scales, it's just extremely difficult. You're not going to get crossbow bolt through Balerion's underbelly, for example.

[RumHam]

Wasn't there some quote from the red grass field where the Ravens teeth were using archery mixed with sorcery? Maybe each weir wood arrow had some spell that turned it into a sort of cruise arrow. Like an eye seeking weir wood dead green seer powered munition.

Yes.

He slew Aegon first, the elder of the twins, for he knew that Daemon would never leave the boy whilst warmth lingered in his body, though white shafts fell like rain. Nor did he, though seven arrows pierced him, driven as much by sorcery as by Bloodraven’s bow.

But that could just as easily be a baseless accusation made by Eustace based on everybody's hatred of Bloodraven and the rumors that he dabbles in "black arts."

When did Bran see a vision of Brandon Snow making weirwood arrows?

Right. Tyrion isn't exactly wrong though: Meraxes was brought down with a scorpion through the eye. I don't think he ever says it's impossible to puncture the scales, it's just extremely difficult. You're not going to get crossbow bolt through Balerion's underbelly, for example.

As I've been saying we can't be sure he did. But here's the quote, from when Bran sees a series of visions around the Winterfell weirwood in Dance that are going further and further back in time:

A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

A Dance with Dragons:

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

He's going back in time, the dark eyed youth is prior to Aegon V as that is likely Old Nan and/or Dunc but after the Kings of Winter Bran recognises

Yeah. Especially since unless I'm mistaken he'd have to hit them in the eye to really do any damage to an adult dragon with it's hard scales everywhere else.

We know stormcloud got a few in the belly and he would be older than Dany's current dragons right:

'Only nine, he had never flown before … and would never fly again, for Stormcloud had been terribly wounded as he fled, arriving with the stubs of countless arrows embedded in his belly and a scorpion bolt through his neck.'

[Free Northman Reborn]

In the context of the story it really cannot be anyone else.

[RumHam]

In the context of the story it really cannot be anyone else.

I don't really think that's true. I'll grant you he's the most likely candidate, but I could see it being a young Bloodraven for example, before he lost his eye. Or just some random person, like the woman with the bronze sickle. To get to "weirwood arrows must have been Brandon Snow's plan to stealthily kill the dragons" you have to assume the man in the vision is Brandon, and then assume that he's carving these arrows for that purpose. Then deal with the objections I raised like why just take three arrows, and how the hell was he gonna get close enough and manage to take out all three before they roasted him. So while I wouldn't be at all surprised if you guys turn out to be right, I don't think the theory is firm enough to be casually stated as fact like in the OP.