Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Saying the same sentence 3 times in a row doesn't make it magically true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Saying the same sentence 3 times in a row doesn't make it magically true. I feel like we are all bashing our heads against a brick wall explaining something so simple. Im amazed this conversation is still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyTheOneTrueKing Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 1. There will be show apologists, who will constantly trash GRRM's books and say the show is perfect. 2. There will be Book Purists, who will constantly trash the show and say the books are near perfect. 3. There will be people who like/love either the show/book or both and let those who have differing opinions have them, without insulting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I feel like we are all bashing our heads against a brick wall explaining something so simple. Im amazed this conversation is still going. If it's so simple explain why the Tyrells don't do anything when Loras and Margaery get captured. They are a powerful family with thousands of trained and armed knights + the Lannsiter alliance. The faith are a bunch of fanatics in robes, armed with clubs. Why are Margaery and Loras on trial and their family does nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStannisFan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 King Stannis wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsastronk Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Arya - continues training. Convinces faceless men that she is 'no one' and returns to KL. Ugh. I can see this happening and it will only be a waste of valuable screentime. The Braavos scenes last season were practically torture. Since Bran is coming back, they should retire Arya for at least a season, or for however long they need to get past her inconsequential phase (if she's going to do anything important to the main plot at all.) But, in all likelihood, there will be more boring Braavos scenes. At least they'll only be included in 4 or 5 episodes, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If it's so simple explain why the Tyrells don't do anything when Loras and Margaery get captured. They are a powerful family with thousands of trained and armed knights + the Lannsiter alliance. The faith are a bunch of fanatics in robes, armed with clubs. Why are Margaery and Loras on trial and their family does nothing? Because Margaery and Loras are hostages and could be killed if the Tyrell's decide to attack. I guess the bigger question is why did the High Sparrow let Cersei out of custody and allow her to go back to the Red Keep where she could plot against them. That seems like something that should go into the book plot inconsistencies thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Because Margaery and Loras are hostages and could be killed if the Tyrell's decide to attack. I guess the bigger question is why did the High Sparrow let Cersei out of custody and allow her to go back to the Red Keep where she could plot against them. That seems like something that should go into the book plot inconsistencies thread. If they were killed... Then every single sparrow would get killed in return. Something you don't want. It's much easier to release them and have no bloodshed, while keeping your order intact. The sparrows have no power compared to the Tyrells. And for your second point. Cersei first goes there to have a fake support talk to Margaery. She goes out and isn't detained becasue she isn't suspect of anything. But the HS tortures Kettleback because he finds her suspicious. After he confesses Cersei ordered him to lie she is arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If they were killed... Then every single sparrow would get killed in return. Something you don't want. It's much easier to release them and have no bloodshed, while keeping your order intact. The sparrows have no power compared to the Tyrells. But they'd never be killed in the first place as long as the Tyrell's don't attack, and they won't because they don't want to jeopardize the lives of Loras and Margaery. So I don't think it's a plot inconsistency at all. And for your second point. Cersei first goes there to have a fake support talk to Margaery. She goes out and isn't detained becasue she isn't suspect of anything. But the HS tortures Kettleback because he finds her suspicious. After he confesses Cersei ordered him to lie she is arrested. But this does not answer my second point as to why the sparrows release her after they've imprisoned her and humiliated her. Is she just going to be a good little girl now? Obviously not, she's going to try and get revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 But they'd never be killed in the first place as long as the Tyrell's don't attack, and they won't because they don't want to jeopardize the lives of Loras and Margaery. So I don't think it's a plot inconsistency at all. But this does not answer my second point as to why the sparrows release her after they've imprisoned her and humiliated her. Is she just going to be a good little girl now? Obviously not, she's going to try and get revenge. Dear god. So no side does nothing, while loras and Margaery are imprisoned? First it was already idiotic when they got arrested and no guard did anything. Secondly the Sparrows can't do anything against the Tyrells, while the Tyrells can eradicate their entire order if they don't return the prisoners. And what exactly would killing Loras and Marg acomplish? Nothing. Except the demise of an order which just got re-established. You'd have to be pretty dumb and sadistic to do this. To spite a family ,that did you no wrong. You'd also get killed with your whole order. Once again, in the books Mace marches his army from the siege of Storm's end to KL (defying the king's orders) when he hears Margaery got arrested. It sends a message. I didn't realize you meant after the walk. The walk is considered her punishment. After she confessed her sins and did the walk there was no reason to detain her anymore. It's not like every prisoner in our world gets jailed for a lifetime. They get released after doing their time. Not to mention there is still the trial by combat, so Cersei is still far from safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 1. There will be show apologists, who will constantly trash GRRM's books and say the show is perfect. 2. There will be Book Purists, who will constantly trash the show and say the books are near perfect. 3. There will be people who like/love either the show/book or both and let those who have differing opinions have them, without insulting each other. :agree: And I'm happy to belong to the third category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Dear god. So no side does nothing, while loras and Margaery are imprisoned? First it was already idiotic when they got arrested and no guard did anything. Secondly the Sparrows can't do anything against the Tyrells, while the Tyrells can eradicate their entire order if they don't return the prisoners. And what exactly would killing Loras and Marg acomplish? Nothing. Except the demise of an order which just got re-established. You'd have to be pretty dumb and sadistic to do this. To spite a family ,that did you no wrong. You'd also get killed with your whole order. Once again, in the books Mace marches his army from the siege of Storm's end to KL (defying the king's orders) when he hears Margaery got arrested. It sends a message. I didn't realize you meant after the walk. The walk is considered her punishment. After she confessed her sins and did the walk there was no reason to detain her anymore. It's not like every prisoner in our world gets jailed for a lifetime. They get released after doing their time. Not to mention there is still the trial by combat, so Cersei is still far from safe. In fairness, it's probably likely the Tyrell's are going to act in season 6. After Loras was arrested, Olenna comes to Kings Landing to try and reason with Cersei, then Margaery gets arrested late in the season and once again Olenna tries to reason with the High Sparrow to no avail and then we don't hear anything else from the Tyrell's (but I'm sure we will in season 6). Right but it's definitely not modern times, and it just makes no sense for the Faith Militant to let her out of jail while she waits for her trial. Especially after they just finished torturing someone to get information from them, why would they be so reasonable and naive to let her out? Obviously she's going to start plotting against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 1. There will be show apologists, who will constantly trash GRRM's books and say the show is perfect. 2. There will be Book Purists, who will constantly trash the show and say the books are near perfect. 3. There will be people who like/love either the show/book or both and let those who have differing opinions have them, without insulting each other. There are definitely sooooo many more 2s than 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 There are definitely sooooo many more 2s than 1s. On this site, maybe. But I've been on other sites which have people who like the show bash the books and rudely insult anyone who criticizes the show, so it's not all one-sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok as has been repeatedly mentioned, going up against a religion that has the people's support on its side is an inherently bad idea. I'm not even going to debate whether the sparrows have popular support, it's clear they do, as was stated in the show. For the tyrells to attain the sparrows in KL it would mean sending troops into KL. Is that something the lannisters would allow? Secondly it's clear who is to blame for the imprisonment. It's very likely id say that there will be a war between lannisters and tyrells next season. Plus there is the hostage situation which has already been mentioned, invading would mean the immediate death of those hostages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok as has been repeatedly mentioned, going up against a religion that has the people's support on its side is an inherently bad idea. I'm not even going to debate whether the sparrows have popular support, it's clear they do, as was stated in the show. For the tyrells to attain the sparrows in KL it would mean sending troops into KL. Is that something the lannisters would allow? Secondly it's clear who is to blame for the imprisonment. It's very likely id say that there will be a war between lannisters and tyrells next season. Plus there is the hostage situation which has already been mentioned, invading would mean the immediate death of those hostages. So the question is - how do the Sparrows have the support of the people? When they're handing out soup? sure. The people love them. But when they're trashing brothels and prohibiting alcohol? No, the people aren't going to support them. The only people who are going to support that are other zealots, not average peasants who just want to relax after a long day in the fields and at the anvil with a nice cup of wine and a cheap prostitute. Show don't tell. It's not enough for the show to tell me that the Sparrows have the support of the people. They've got to show me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStannisFan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 ALL HAIL KING STANNIS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Sigh. They did show it. Maybe it says something about you that you have more support for someone who keeps brothels open than someone who helps others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Sigh. They did show it. Maybe it says something about you that you have more support for someone who keeps brothels open than someone who helps others Okay enlighten me then. How did they show it? Because the High Sparrow gave out some soup? You think that when the Sparrows started smashing buildings up that all the common people remembered that really nice bowl of soup they had one day and didn't say a word against it? What the show implies is a complete government takeover. That doesn't just happen with no resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok as has been repeatedly mentioned, going up against a religion that has the people's support on its side is an inherently bad idea. I'm not even going to debate whether the sparrows have popular support, it's clear they do, as was stated in the show. For the tyrells to attain the sparrows in KL it would mean sending troops into KL. Is that something the lannisters would allow? Secondly it's clear who is to blame for the imprisonment. It's very likely id say that there will be a war between lannisters and tyrells next season. Plus there is the hostage situation which has already been mentioned, invading would mean the immediate death of those hostages. But the show shows us scenes of zealots going around and causing havoc. In order for your logic to work we'd need to ignore scenes that were directly shown to us. And you keep saying this but how do the people protect the cult? Do they have swords or magic? It's like saying a lord in middle ages would ignore a peasant rebellion because he would risk more peasants getting mad. This is just stupid. Once again, in the books Mace Tyrell moves his huge army from Storms end to KL. And in the books the sparrows actually had the support of the people. In the show nobody does anything to stop robed fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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