Gods of Old Valirya

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Why was Aegon so ready to surrender his faith and adopt the religion of southern Westeros? It'd be like the American Coloniolists adopting Native American spirtuality...Aegon had the superior firepower (literally) and dominated everyone. Why would he then forgo the gods of his people and take on the gods of the people he just conquered??

Well the Targaryens had been away from Valyria for several generations before the Doom occurred.  It's possible that once they were out of the area where the religion of their ancestors was practiced, it didn't seem as important.  For all its dragonglass and such, Dragonstone is a still a very different environment than Valyria was.  And it seems likely that the ancient Valyrian religion (like other very old religions that are not Andal in origin) was nature-based.  So a different environment might make the Targs/Celtigars/Velaryons question the all-powerful gods of Valyria having any sway in such a different land.

[falcotron]

Actually there are 14 because the wiki article on dragons only had 14 Valyrian-sounding named dragons listed.  Either Tyraxes wasn't in the list, or somehow I missed him/her.

I just looked at the wiki article on dragons, and Tyraxes appears three times. So, obviously GRRM planned it out so that, as it stands 5/7ths of the way through the story, the wiki article would have at least 15 Valyrian-sounding dragon names, knowing that you would miss at least one of them, as a hint to the number 14.
 

Do not doubt the signs.  And do not panic. ;)

I was perfectly hoopy until I lost my Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses. Now it's time to panic. Especially since I'm now on page 47, which is the 5th safe prime, right after 23, which means the Illuminati are watching me. I'm going to have to go back and reread the last few pages to throw them off.

[Codename: Nymeria]

 

This is just a random sampling of some Targaryen dragons, plus one dragon from centuries earlier. There are 14 because the user who was making the list happened to stop at 14.
 

 

Not to mention the fact that we've been explicitly told by GRRM that Balerion was named after a God of Old Valyria. I know he likes to make things sneaky, but from a purely logical writing standpoint, making that particular point would suggest that not every dragon is named after a God of Old Valyria; otherwise, it'd read, "Like every Targ dragon, Balerion was named after a god of Old Valyria." Kind of like how there's constant mention of the Mountain being tall, or Sam being fat, but no particular insight as to, say, Sansa's height, or Gendry's waistline. It only bears mention because of the uniqueness of it.

 

That's not a clue from GRRM, any more than the fact that I'm on page 42 in my current reread is a Hitchhikers' Guide connection.

 

 

Do you know where your towel is? I'm gonna go have a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster, just in case. Also, how sure are you the page numbers aren't being expressed in base-13?

[The Little Sister]

Other than Balerion, Vhaegar, Meraxes, and Syrax, here are some Targ dragon names that were possibly names of Valyrian gods:
 
Arrax
Caraxes
Meleys
Morghul (valar morghulis, after all)
Shrykos
Tessarion
Vermax
Vermithor
 
Other legendary dragons with Valyrian-sounding (at least) names:
 
Urrax - supposedly slain by Serwyn of the Mirror Shield
Terrax - dragon of Valyrian lady Jaenara Belaerys, who with her dragon was said to have explored Sothoryos for three years

You don't think Sheepstealer sounds Valyrian God-like?

[three-eyed monkey]

Wait, are people taking this seriously?The fact that there are 14 names on this list means absolutely nothing.This is a list of names of dragons mentioned up to ADwD/TMK/TWoIaF that someone pulled out of their memory that sound Valyrian-ish. Even if there were actually 14 such names, what would that mean? There were fewer of them before the last book, and there will be more of them after the next book. But there aren't actually 14 in the first place; for example, surely Tyraxes fits the Targaryen-sounding names too?This is just a random sampling of some Targaryen dragons, plus one dragon from centuries earlier. There are 14 because the user who was making the list happened to stop at 14.That's not a clue from GRRM, any more than the fact that I'm on page 42 in my current reread is a Hitchhikers' Guide connection.

Even I'm not taking this seriously. Just a passing observation as I read the post.

[RomKat]

Fourteen names and fourteen flames of Old Valyria. I wonder if these volcanoes, where the Valyrians first found dragons nesting, are the gods of Old Valyria?

I am all for this!!!!!

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I just looked at the wiki article on dragons, and Tyraxes appears three times. So, obviously GRRM planned it out so that, as it stands 5/7ths of the way through the story, the wiki article would have at least 15 Valyrian-sounding dragon names, knowing that you would miss at least one of them, as a hint to the number 14.
 
I was perfectly hoopy until I lost my Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses. Now it's time to panic. Especially since I'm now on page 47, which is the 5th safe prime, right after 23, which means the Illuminati are watching me. I'm going to have to go back and reread the last few pages to throw them off.

Eh, I didn't scour the whole article, I just scrolled down the to convenient list of Targ dragons.

 

As long as you can avoid the Vogons, you should be fine. ;)

[falcotron]

As long as you can avoid the Vogons, you should be fine. ;)

I forget whether you put the satchel over the drain before putting the towel on the hook or after, so I'm not sure I can even get the babelfish. Why was this so much easier when I was a kid?

[Domen]

The Black Goat of Qohor, that weird norvoshi God and the blind god they worship in Lorath. Also the lord of light R'hllor.

[Artos Cold]

2 hours ago, Domen said:

The Black Goat of Qohor, that weird norvoshi God and the blind god they worship in Lorath. Also the lord of light R'hllor.

 

[Maester of Valyria]

While there were many different gods and religions practiced in Valyria, there was no one overiding faith. From the Worldbook:

 

Some septons, less wise, claim that the Valyrians brought the disaster on themselves for their promiscuous belief in a hundred gods and more, and in their godlessness they delved too deep and unleashed the fires of the Seven hells on the Freehold.

In Valryia before the Doom, wise men wrote, a thousand gods were honored, but none were feared, so few dared to speak against these customs.

Some scholars have suggested that the dragonlords regarded all faiths as equally false, believing themselves to be more powerful than any god or goddess. They looked upon priests and temples as relics of a more primitive time, though useful for placating "slaves, savages, and the poor" with promises of a better life to come. Moreover, a multiplicity of gods helped to keep their subjects divided and lessened the chances of their uniting under the banner of a single faith to overthrow their overlords. Religious tolerance was to them a means of keeping the peace in the Lands of the Long Summer.

 

[SeanF]

Why was Aegon so ready to surrender his faith and adopt the religion of southern Westeros? It'd be like the American Coloniolists adopting Native American spirtuality...Aegon had the superior firepower (literally) and dominated everyone. Why would he then forgo the gods of his people and take on the gods of the people he just conquered??

Aegon and his sisters weren't considered to be pious. They probably shared the atheism or agnosticism of their Valyrian ancestors. But, they realised that the Faith was very powerful in Westeros. So, converting to the Faith was a very easy way of making their rule palatable to their new subjects.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 hour ago, Maester of Valyria said:

While there were many different gods and religions practiced in Valyria, there was no one overiding faith. From the Worldbook:

 

Some septons, less wise, claim that the Valyrians brought the disaster on themselves for their promiscuous belief in a hundred gods and more, and in their godlessness they delved too deep and unleashed the fires of the Seven hells on the Freehold.

In Valryia before the Doom, wise men wrote, a thousand gods were honored, but none were feared, so few dared to speak against these customs.

Some scholars have suggested that the dragonlords regarded all faiths as equally false, believing themselves to be more powerful than any god or goddess. They looked upon priests and temples as relics of a more primitive time, though useful for placating "slaves, savages, and the poor" with promises of a better life to come. Moreover, a multiplicity of gods helped to keep their subjects divided and lessened the chances of their uniting under the banner of a single faith to overthrow their overlords. Religious tolerance was to them a means of keeping the peace in the Lands of the Long Summer.

 

Did the Targareans leave Valyria by choice or were they exiled?

But even looking at just the incest thing, the Targs were pretty clear they held themselves above both the laws of men and the laws of the gods!

[SeanF]

While there were many different gods and religions practiced in Valyria, there was no one overiding faith. From the Worldbook:

Some septons, less wise, claim that the Valyrians brought the disaster on themselves for their promiscuous belief in a hundred gods and more, and in their godlessness they delved too deep and unleashed the fires of the Seven hells on the Freehold.

In Valryia before the Doom, wise men wrote, a thousand gods were honored, but none were feared, so few dared to speak against these customs.

Some scholars have suggested that the dragonlords regarded all faiths as equally false, believing themselves to be more powerful than any god or goddess. They looked upon priests and temples as relics of a more primitive time, though useful for placating "slaves, savages, and the poor" with promises of a better life to come. Moreover, a multiplicity of gods helped to keep their subjects divided and lessened the chances of their uniting under the banner of a single faith to overthrow their overlords. Religious tolerance was to them a means of keeping the peace in the Lands of the Long Summer.

Did the Targareans leave Valyria by choice or were they exiled?

But even looking at just the incest thing, the Targs were pretty clear they held themselves above both the laws of men and the laws of the gods!

Incest has always been the prerogative of royalty. But, in the case of Targaryens, it was linked to their determination to create dragon riders.

[Jak Scaletongue]

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Did the Targareans leave Valyria by choice or were they exiled?

But even looking at just the incest thing, the Targs were pretty clear they held themselves above both the laws of men and the laws of the gods!

By choice.  Daena the Dreamer had her dream/vision of the Fourteen Flames going BOOM and (unlike poor Cassandra) her father believed her and sold all the Targaryen holdings and moved the entire family and some retainers (Velaryons and Celtigars) to the Valyrian outpost of Dragonstone.  The Targs were one of the Freeholders, which were the families that essentially ran the Freehold of Valyria, but one of the lesser Freeholder families (ie: better than most everyone, except the 20+ odd families who had more - they weren't Joe Smith, but they weren't QE2 either!)

ETA: the incest part - it was a Valyrian custom, designed I think to keep the "dragon blood" within the Freeholder Families, rather than "sharing" (or as Viserys said "mingling") their blood with the lesser people of the Freehold.  Very much the same vein as royalty in the real world.  Except the Valyrians actually *had* something "different" about them - but the ruling families either didn't want the lesser's to get it, or didn't want the lesser's to figure out they already had it.  Brother-sister marriage was most common in Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc.  Marrying cousins became more common as time went by, rather than brother-sister.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

52 minutes ago, Jak Scaletongue said:

By choice.  Daena the Dreamer had her dream/vision of the Fourteen Flames going BOOM and (unlike poor Cassandra) her father believed her and sold all the Targaryen holdings and moved the entire family and some retainers (Velaryons and Celtigars) to the Valyrian outpost of Dragonstone.  The Targs were one of the Freeholders, which were the families that essentially ran the Freehold of Valyria, but one of the lesser Freeholder families (ie: better than most everyone, except the 20+ odd families who had more - they weren't Joe Smith, but they weren't QE2 either!)

ETA: the incest part - it was a Valyrian custom, designed I think to keep the "dragon blood" within the Freeholder Families, rather than "sharing" (or as Viserys said "mingling") their blood with the lesser people of the Freehold.  Very much the same vein as royalty in the real world.  Except the Valyrians actually *had* something "different" about them - but the ruling families either didn't want the lesser's to get it, or didn't want the lesser's to figure out they already had it.  Brother-sister marriage was most common in Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc.  Marrying cousins became more common as time went by, rather than brother-sister.

Then what about...

"Maester Thomax's Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons had not been so fortunate. It had come open as it fell, and a few pages had gotten muddy, including one with a rather nice picture of Balerion the Black Dread done in colored inks. "

 

???

[TheSovereignGrave]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Then what about...

"Maester Thomax's Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons had not been so fortunate. It had come open as it fell, and a few pages had gotten muddy, including one with a rather nice picture of Balerion the Black Dread done in colored inks. "

 

???

Probably has to do with the fact that the Targaryen who fled Valyria is known as Aenar the Exile. Not because he was actually exiled from Valyria, but most likely because the other Dragonlords saw his fleeing Valyria as an act of defeat and cowardice. A self-imposed exile of the Targaryen family, one could say.

[Maester of Valyria]

23 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Did the Targareans leave Valyria by choice or were they exiled?

But even looking at just the incest thing, the Targs were pretty clear they held themselves above both the laws of men and the laws of the gods!

That's a matter for some debate, and I've no doubt that we will find out more in the future.

Exactly; they only accepted the bits of the Faith that suited them, keeping their incestuous practices on.

 

22 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Then what about...

"Maester Thomax's Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons had not been so fortunate. It had come open as it fell, and a few pages had gotten muddy, including one with a rather nice picture of Balerion the Black Dread done in colored inks. "

 

???

Exile can be self-imposed as well as imposed from on high. I imagine that the Targaryen's flight to a remote corner of the Freehold, away from all the wonders of Valyria, was seen as a bit of an exile.

[The Wondering Wolf]

On ‎04‎.‎03‎.‎2016 at 9:33 PM, Jak Scaletongue said:

Daena the Dreamer had her dream/vision of the Fourteen Flames going BOOM and (unlike poor Cassandra) her father believed her and sold all the Targaryen holdings and moved the entire family and some retainers (Velaryons and Celtigars) to the Valyrian outpost of Dragonstone.

Daenys the Dreamer. And the Velaryons already have been on Driftmark.  (smart-ass mode off)