Jon off the PoV list.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

That doesn't prove that Bran was witnessing anything other than an execution.  The point is there is no proof that it's a sacrifice.

 

Same goes for Lord Varys' comment, as Bran would taste the blood whether it was a sacrifice or not.

 

I was mainly just pointing out though that the north does have a history of blood sacrifices to their trees. So it could have been.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Never occurred to you that a kid might be too shocked by what he was seeing to think to intervene?  Or that even if he'd tried it wouldn't have worked?  The man was wearing all black, which means there's a very good chance he was a Night's Watch deserter.  In Bran's mind he would deserve death.

 

If three stab wounds aren't bad enough to make someone pass out, you think a fourth one is somehow the magic number?  My dad fainted once from a snapped tendon.  You don't need massive blood loss or mortal wounds for it to happen.

 

I already mentioned the risk of infection being his greatest threat.  The belly wound itself is not necessarily fatal.  If it infects, it could be.  If they hit anything important it could be.  But we don't know that that is the case.  

 

My ideas about who might or might not come to Jon's aid are as good as yours.  We don't know that anyone is available, willing, and nearby, but neither do we know that no one is available, willing, and nearby.  

 

His friends might not want to save him?  What?  Seriously, that makes no sense.  As long as he isn't dead yet, there's a chance.  Would some figure there's no point, yeah maybe, but someone will no doubt try and help, or beg Mel to do so.  This one is a no-brainer.  

 

It's not just Ned and Tyrion.  There's a whole list of people who were supposedly dead in their own POV but turned out not to be.  All the actual deaths we've seen in regular chapters have been in someone else's POV, not the supposedly dead character's.  The only exception to this is Cat, and she didn't stay dead so I'm not even sure that counts.  Arya took an axe to the back of the head.  She's alive.  Sandor was left dying of infection.  He's alive and is working as a gravedigger. Davos not only didn't drown but is going to pick up another not dead character on Skagos.

 

I'm not saying that Jon can't or won't die.  I'm just saying he's not dead yet and wouldn't absolutely have to die to make the story work.

 

I also never said there wouldn't be lasting consequences.  Whether Jon is alive or dead, the Night's Watch is going to be ripped apart by this, and the Wall may come down as a result (per Old Nan).  Kindly cease responding to what you think I meant and go with what I actually said instead.

 

Will, Maester Cressen, Pate, Varamyr, and Kevan all died in their POVs actually.

[Wolf's Bane]

Simple question/taugh;

If Jon is to comeback from death, will he not be a PoV, like cat/LS? That way we have no clue of what he is thinking, how much it changed him. We might have to see him trough mel, in the begining at least.

Would you like it? How much could that change what you expect of Jon's ressurection? I believe he is "the" or one of the hero, is it better to see his heroic acts from someone else eyes, or living his inner conflicts?

 

Jon died at the perfect time in the story for him to die.  George set up the plot perfectly and the timing of Jon's demise was perfect. Jon should stay dead.  The story is better for it, in my opinion.  If he comes back as another person, then I guess that sort of counts as not having a Jon POV anymore.  If he comes back as a wolf, that counts as losing a Jon POV. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

Will, Maester Cressen, Pate, Varamyr, and Kevan all died in their POVs actually.

I said in regular chapters.  Those were all either prologues or epilogues.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

I said in regular chapters.  Those were all either prologues or epilogues.

 

And? Not everyone dies in their prologue. Chett didn't.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

And? Not everyone dies in their prologue. Chett didn't.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Are you deliberately missing the point?

 

No I think you are deliberately creating a secondary class of chapters to support your idea that no one dies in their own POVs. When ASOS proves that not everyone dies these "non-regular" chapters. Thus there is no real case that the prologues and epilogues are actually different than the "regular" chapters.

[Ponzi Scheme]

Simple question/taugh;

If Jon is to comeback from death, will he not be a PoV, like cat/LS? That way we have no clue of what he is thinking, how much it changed him. We might have to see him trough mel, in the begining at least.

Would you like it? How much could that change what you expect of Jon's ressurection? I believe he is "the" or one of the hero, is it better to see his heroic acts from someone else eyes, or living his inner conflicts?

 

Would I like it?   I'd rather not have him back at all.   I never liked reading Jon.  I appreciate George Martin having the guts to kill off a major character in the middle of the story.  Jon is no longer needed in the plot.  The main conflict will be between Bran and Dany.  I believe them both to have special abilities that the followers of the Old Gods and R'hllor's priests wants to use in their service. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

No I think you are deliberately creating a secondary class of chapters to support your idea that no one dies in their own POVs. When ASOS proves that not everyone dies these "non-regular" chapters. Thus there is no real case that the prologues and epilogues are actually different than the "regular" chapters.

Except for all of the regular chapters where the POV character seems to be dead but then turns out not to be.  I'm not making this up, it's been noted repeatedly by other members of the forum.  In fact that discussion has been going on since before I joined this forum.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, Chett died either way. Being in a epilogue/prologue means you have little time in this world.

 

And, if we go for technicalities, all of them die later.

 

Will feels the cold hands (heh), we know he's going to die.

Cressen was falling down, dying.

Merrett Frey was being hanged but still alive.

Pate had a last thought.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Except for all of the regular chapters where the POV character seems to be dead but then turns out not to be.  I'm not making this up, it's been noted repeatedly by other members of the forum.  In fact that discussion has been going on since before I joined this forum.

 

Most of them aren't actually in a position to die though when their POV chapter ends with their "fake death"

 

- Theon was only punched in the face by Ramsay and his only injury was a shattered cheekbone when his chapter ends

- Davos is being swept towards "a wall of red-hot steel, blazing wood, and swirling green flame" but has not yet hit this when his chapter ends

- Tyrion is attacked by Mandon Moore but Tyrion manages to leap out of the way and only get a cut below his eyes instead of his head cut off. His chapter ends with him only having that cut and an arrow to the shoulder after he's been saved by Pod.

- Arya is hit with an axe while Sandor is trying to get her to come with him. If he's trying to get her to come with him there was never any reason that he would have used the blade side on her.

- Brienne is about to be hanged, but she is not yet hanging when her chapter ends. She cannot die from a rope simply being wrapped around her neck, she needs to be hanging for the rope to have any hope of killing her.

- Asha's chapter ends as she's loses consciousness from an axe blow to her helm and Middle Liddle has his axe raised for the killing blow. She has not yet been struck by the killing blow, nor does she ever as the trumpets blowing was the signal that the battle was won.

- Quentyn's chapters ends with him burning, but he was never engulfed in flame. Rhaegal simply breathed hot air on him. Regardless, his chapter still ends with him very much alive, simply in agony from Rhaegal's hot wind and we later learn that he survived for 4 more days before dying in Barristan's POV.

 

Really the only actual "fake death" in a POV is Bran's where he's pushed out a window and falling. The rest aren't actually in the position to die. They're in the moment before when something that would bring death should come when they're chapter ends, or they're not even injured enough to be dying in that moment.

 

Compare that to Jon who actually does sustain 4 wounds and his body's immediately fading, with the 4th being experienced after he's already gone unconscious/dead, and we have the line about Jon's last sensation being feeling cold when the prologue tells us that feeling cold is the last sensation a skinchanger feels, and it's completely different than the "fake deaths". Jon's lines up with Catelyn's where she actually sustains a life threatening wound before her chapter ends not is about to sustain a life threatening wound, and it has the added bonus of having the connection to Varamyr's chapter explaining that feeling cold = death for skinchangers.

[aussie_ironborn]

I had always thought bran could taste the blood in his vision, due to the person being of his own blood. Possibly even his namesake, a Brandon Stark from years past.. I also believe/hope Theons sacrifice to the Weirwood will be instrumental to the resurrection of Jon rather then rhallor.. Mayhaps both together, fire and ice?

[JonisHenryTudor]

I would probably stop reading the series. 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, Chett died either way. Being in a epilogue/prologue means you have little time in this world.

 

And, if we go for technicalities, all of them die later.

 

Will feels the cold hands (heh), we know he's going to die.

Cressen was falling down, dying.

Merrett Frey was being hanged but still alive.

Pate had a last thought.

and catelyn died in her pov, yeah she got brought back, but she was certainly dead at the twins.

[Bloodraven's Bastard]

Jon's coming back, folks.

 

Get used to the idea.

 

Because it's gonna happen.

[Nic.]

I don't need him to be a POV even though i understand why many would be disappointed.  It worked well for Robb and it can work for Jon as well.  Having said that i seriously doubt he'd be taken out of the POV list even if he's not the same person he was pre resurrection. 

[Richard Writhen]

Jon could warg into Ghost thus preserving his soul, where it would stay until the last book. Then this Revenant Warg™ could have a POV and lead the Others and the Giant Ice Spiders™ in The Great Battle™ against Dany and her dragons...

[Bloodraven's Bastard]

I don't need him to be a POV even though i understand why many would be disappointed.  It worked well for Robb and it can work for Jon as well.  Having said that i seriously doubt he'd be taken out of the POV list even if he's not the same person he was pre resurrection. 

 

Tower of Joy, Nic.

 

Perhaps you can offer an alternative explanation ?

[YorEmixam]

Thanks for your answers everyone, I see a lot of people think we'll have a ghost PoV, George said no new pov but I guess Ghost warged by Jon isn't really a new one.

But would a Ghost chapter be interresting to read? It would have to be a short chapter or witnessing a lot of action. If warged Ghost is to happen, I think I'd rather hear about Ghosts actions then living them, like Nymeria's pack in a way.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Jon's coming back, folks.

 

Get used to the idea.

 

Because it's gonna happen.

 

I think most people assume he's going to either recover from the wounds, or be resurrected. Whether he died or not most probably think he'll be back.