LordStoneheart Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 And he's spent decades complaining about not getting the respect he thinks he's entitled to, but has never bothered to try and earn. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why did Robb send his mother to broker their toll? She talked him into it despite other councillors advice. Then she led him to believe that marrying a Frey was his only option for safe passage, but was that really the case? Sorry for getting off the topic at hand but it seems the red wedding was the result of all the wedding slights with Robb being the final straw Because no one else could have dealt with Walder like she did. No one else could have gotten the deal that she managed, one that was not bad considering their urgency and that Robb wasn't betrothed to anyone yet. Betrothals didnt' seem to be an issue for Ned and Cat, so there's really no reason to think that Robb marrying a Frey is some terrible blow in an of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Supposedly the Freys were one of the most powerful vassals of the Tullys, if not the most powerful. So were they disliked by the Riverlords out of jealously or is it more reactionary? Remember that in AFFC Walder does actually put fotr a lot of land claims before the Throne, and even Cersei is disdainful of the giving more land rights to the house. They had already been very generously awarded for switching sides, and Walder wants more... Somehow, I think I'll go with the idea that the opinions of the Riverlords were more reactionary, or that the slight disdain for House Frey was inflated after people had to get accustomed to dealing with The late Lord Frey (The Mystery Knight does have one line where a hedge knight was disdainful of the Freys and called them Toll collectors that want to run enything, but that is it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Which he deserved. True. House Frey is a mere 600 years old. Maybe he deserved it but I wouldn't piss off my most powerful vassal but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Maybe he deserved it but I wouldn't piss off my most powerful vassal but that's just me. And yet it is these "most powerful" vassals that interfere with the power of the king the most. Lets put it this way, was the Kingmaker someone who shouldn't have been pissed off by the king he put on the throne or was his interference in politics something that prevented the king from exercising his own authority? Or for an even less grey example... Should the French monarchs tolerated their Burgundian rivals, who were their "vassals" but still sided often with the English in the Hundred years war, or later when they tried to become kings of their own lands in their own right? The fact of the matter is, that Walder is as ambitious as he is unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbrey Dustin Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I keep seeing posters say things like "the Freys were looked down upon" or they were constantly slighted but where is that in the books? Who slighted the Freys before AGOT? Who looked down upon them? Where is the idea that they were treated horribly? They are one of the riches houses in Westeros and they managed to turn land into a profit that wasnt a gold or silver mine yet people keep saying that they were looked down upon and I don't see that. One old, blind, bald man took down the King in the North. With a little help from Roose. Yeah, I'd say the Freys are power players. Damn good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I keep seeing posters say things like "the Freys were looked down upon" or they were constantly slighted but where is that in the books? Who slighted the Freys before AGOT? Who looked down upon them? Where is the idea that they were treated horribly? They are one of the riches houses in Westeros and they managed to turn land into a profit that wasnt a gold or silver mine yet people keep saying that they were looked down upon and I don't see that. "Yes. I thought perhaps we could arrange other matches for Lord Walder's daughters. Ser Wendel Manderly has offered to take one, and the Greatjon tells me his uncles wish to wed again. If Lord Walder will be reasonable - " "He is not reasonable," said Catelyn. "He is proud, and prickly to a fault. You know that. He wanted to be grandfather to a king. You will not appease him with the offer of two hoary old brigands and the second son of the fattest man in the Seven Kingdoms. Not only have you broken your oath, but you've slighted the honor of the Twins by choosing a bride from a lesser house." Robb bristled at that. "The Westerlings are better blood than the Freys. They're an ancient line, descended from the First Men. The Kings of the Rock sometimes wed Westerlings before the Conquest, and there was another Jeyne Westerling who was queen to King Maegor three hundred years ago." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's funny because now most Freys look down at the rest. On a serious note. Who slights the Frey? Besides Hoster. Dude married his son to a Lannister, not to mention all his other son's and daughter's. It was really only Hoster who was mean, making up jokes and shunning weddings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's funny because now most Freys look down at the rest. On a serious note. Who slights the Frey? Besides Hoster. Dude married his son to a Lannister, not to mention all his or her son's and daughter's. It was really only Hoster who was mean, making up jokes and shunning weddings. Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Robb Op says before agot. Robb was mad respectful to him until Jeyne. But even then, he remained humble and apologetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It was really only Hoster who was mean, making up jokes and shunning weddings. Giving Walder the nickname The Late Wader Frey seems a lite punishment for showing up after the battle at the Trident was over and then expecting rewards for it...marriages, fostering his grandsons, ect..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why did Robb send his mother to broker their toll? She talked him into it despite other councillors advice. Then she led him to believe that marrying a Frey was his only option for safe passage, but was that really the case? Sorry for getting off the topic at hand but it seems the red wedding was the result of all the wedding slights with Robb being the final straw Cat did break a great deal, Walder was essentially in the right position to end Robb's rebellion, yet due to Catelyn's offer he defied the Iron Throne and joined with Robb instead. That is not nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's funny because now most Freys look down at the rest. On a serious note. Who slights the Frey? Besides Hoster. Dude married his son to a Lannister, not to mention all his other son's and daughter's. It was really only Hoster who was mean, making up jokes and shunning weddings. Actually in AFFC Jenna lannister/Frey mentions how tywin (at ten years of age) slammed his fist and pointed our to his father how petty the match was for a lannister, and tyros went as white a snow in the face. Jenna also says that every man from the westerlands at the feast held back their toungues at the farce Not the exact wording but yer. Basically I think Hoster and everyone sees the freys for what they are, and that's over reacher a They have no pride, honor or loyalty. And Walder seems to think he can do little for his liege but reap in benefits that other houses have bled for (see Roberts rebellion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Actually in AFFC Jenna lannister/Frey mentions how tywin (at ten years of age) slammed his fist and pointed our to his father how petty the match was for a lannister, and tyros went as white a snow in the face. Jenna also says that every man from the westerlands at the feast held back their toungues at the farce Not the exact wording but yer. Basically I think Hoster and everyone sees the freys for what they are, and that's over reacher a They have no pride, honor or loyalty. And Walder seems to think he can do little for his liege but reap in benefits that other houses have bled for (see Roberts rebellion) 1) Over reached a what? 2) How did the Freys reap the benefits of Roberts Rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTSTARK Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I'm tired of these troll threads. People in Westeros look down upon the Freys with good reason, there is something truly fucked up about that family. We know that there are a couple of decent Freys but in general that family produces horrible people that you don't like as allies and you don't respect as enemies. Walder Frey isn't the only problem, think about all the psychos they produce like the Little Walder, there's something wrong with their genes. I know its not gonna happen but i sincerely hope for the Freys to get |"Reyned" well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 1) Over reached a what? 2) How did the Freys reap the benefits of Roberts Rebellion? Walder told Cat he was angry because he thought Edmure should have married a Frey, Jon Arryn should have taken his grandsons as wards and Robert Arryn should have been fostered at the Twins instead of Dragonstone with Stannis....to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Walder told Cat he was angry because he thought Edmure should have married a Frey, Jon Arryn should have taken his grandsons as wards and Robert Arryn should have been fostered at the Twins instead of Dragonstone with Stannis....to name a few. So? The Freys are the second family in the Riverlands. Building ties with them is the smart thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 1) Over reached a what? 2) How did the Freys reap the benefits of Roberts Rebellion? Believe(d) his family is on par or same level as LPs. Turns up to the battle of the trident late, then gets upset when an old sick man doesn't turn up to his 6th wedding. What I'm trying to say is Walder expects respect he's done nothing to earn. Which a few posters above already pointed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Giving Walder the nickname The Late Wader Frey seems a lite punishment for showing up after the battle at the Trident was over and then expecting rewards for it...marriages, fostering his grandsons, ect..;) It's a light punishment. (What's he gonna do though?) Hoster wasn't Walders only lord though, Walder has contented with lots of Lord Tullys and they all say no to marriage, fostering etc. I guess it's a Tully thing. They don't want to marry their daughters to ambitious bannermen.Actually in AFFC Jenna lannister/Frey mentions how tywin (at ten years of age) slammed his fist and pointed our to his father how petty the match was for a lannister, and tyros went as white a snow in the face. Jenna also says that every man from the westerlands at the feast held back their toungues at the farce Not the exact wording but yer. Basically I think Hoster and everyone sees the freys for what they are, and that's over reacher a They have no pride, honor or loyalty. And Walder seems to think he can do little for his liege but reap in benefits that other houses have bled for (see Roberts rebellion) It's also then Genna is the oldest female and Emmon is not the heir, plus Lannisters are high lords. But mainly I'd say it's because Tywins a dick. After all, Arianna (kinda) was engaged to Walder, she did slight him; but the realm sees a Princesses' hand being offered to Frey. Freys got pride. That's one thing they definitely have lol. They do appear ambitious and unhonorable, but so do the Florents or the Yronwoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 So? The Freys are the second family in the Riverlands. Building ties with them is the smart thing to do. You asked what benifits Walder thought he should reap for his nonpaticipation in RR. I answered your question from Walder's own words to Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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