Refugee Crisis 2 - a warm welcome in Germany

[Gasp of Many Reeds]

Why does Hungary refuses the quota proposal? Poland, Slovakia and Czech Republic I understand, but Hungary already has hundreds of thousands of refugees in their country or pushing to enter their country, and the current immigration system theorically forces them to either drive them away at the frontier (denying them refugee status) or register them and let them stay in Hungary (no matter where they want to go). The quota system would take almost all refugees away from Hungary.

Would force Orbán to admit that some refugees might be there to stay. As a rightist populist who sometimes leans on support from the far right Jobbik party, it wouldn't play well to Orbán's base (who have enough problems accepting the Romani who've lived in the country for hundreds of years, never mind Arabs, who, as Muslims, Hungarians often associate with the Ottoman Turkish invaders/occupiers of the 16th and 17th centuries).

 

 

What the fuck? I hope you are kidding. Don't you think this is a bit offending to the jews that were in the nazi concentration camps? 

 

These refugees are not suffering, they're taken care of. Provided with shelter and food.

Do we need to go full-Inchoroi on them before they can be admitted to suffer?

[Commodore]

take women and children sure

unaccompanied adult males? hell no

[Ojji]

The law? You're starting to sound more and more like Eichman.

Wow that's rich.

 

 

any person regardless of nationality (always a citizen of the Schengen Zone member countries) is able to cross the international borders without any border checks.

 

However, regarding the non-members of the Schengen Area there is a mandatory visa requirement to enter the Schengen Zone for some countries. The countries whose citizens are required to obtain a Schengen visa in order to enter one of its member countries are listed in the following section.

http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/who-needs-schengen-visa/

 

 

I have no idea why you are comparing me to nazi? Is that your go-to card?

When in doubt call the other guy a nazi and hope that he shuts up?

[Ojji]

Turks vs Kurds in brutal Frankfurt street-fight: Knives & bottles brandished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlm2YGuKfcg

 

Well I guess we can just hope that none of the German citizen were hurt in their own home because of other peoples differences. 

[Hayyoth]

Just wow!
 

 

A woman on the same boat as Alan Kurdi says the boy’s father is a people smuggler who begged her not to dob him in.

Zainab Abbas said Abdullah Kurdi had lied to the world after the image of his dead three-year-old son on a Turkish beach sparked a global outpouring of support for Syrian refugees.

“Yes, it was Abdullah Kurdi driving the boat,” Ms Abbas told Network Ten through her cousin Lara Tahseen today.

Ms Abbas said Mr Kurdi was speeding in the overcrowded boat, which did not have enough life jackets.

She said her husband told him to be careful just before the boat capsized, reportedly killing at least 12 people.

 

[polishgenius]

While it's certainly not inconceivable that he was always driving the boat, I  must confess I'm unconvinced by the prospect of native Syrians using the phrase 'don't dob me in', or by the credentials of any professional translator who renders whatever she actually said as such.

Also him doing it wouldn't necessarily mean he was 'a people smuggler'. Given he was taking his wife and kids it seems not out of the question that it was part of his deal to drive the boat- after all if the actual organiser can get all the money up front and then have someone else do the deed, all the better for him.

[Hayyoth]

While it's certainly not inconceivable that he was always driving the boat, I  must confess I'm unconvinced by the prospect of native Syrians using the phrase 'don't dob me in', or by the credentials of any professional translator who renders whatever she actually said as such.

Also him doing it wouldn't necessarily mean he was 'a people smuggler'. Given he was taking his wife and kids it seems not out of the question that it was part of his deal to drive the boat- after all if the actual organiser can get all the money up front and then have someone else do the deed, all the better for him.

"Dob me in" is Australian for tattletale? So I assume it's just a term inserted to make the story relatable to it's audience, same meaning if not an exact translation. And him driving the boat would 100% tell us he was part of the people smuggling operation. I don't know what the heck went on prior to the cameras showing up to record the little boy's body being picked up by the cop, but if the whole scene was staged....fuck me :(

[mormont]

The credibility of an article that gets the kid's name wrong is pretty low to start with.

[polishgenius]

The credibility of an article that gets the kid's name wrong is pretty low to start with.

 

 

To be fair, everyone reported it wrong initially - the two photos and captions are probably reposts from earlier articles which is lazy journalism but doesn't make them any less credible than everyone else who did it.

[Hayyoth]

The credibility of an article that gets the kid's name wrong is pretty low to start with.

Seems a minor error. It's from an eye witness account and published by a reputable source. Of course we should give the father an opportunity to explain himself.

[mormont]

It may be unfair, but I tend to the view that if you don't check something easy like that, I'm sceptical if you checked the difficult stuff (ie the facts) very carefully.

[polishgenius]

It may be unfair, but I tend to the view that if you don't check something easy like that, I'm sceptical if you checked the difficult stuff (ie the facts) very carefully.

 

 

I'm assuming you're working from the information that his name was Aylan: in fairness, the reports that it isn't were mostly buried in [url=http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/08/bild-photos-aylan-kurdi-complaints]reports[/url] on other aspects of the case, but yeah, his name was Alan.

If you do know his name was Alan, criticising them in particular for using the wrong one when half the media still is isn't particularly useful in filtering who's credible and who's not. There are other reasons why the credibility of this story is something I'm dubious about, but the name isn't one of them.

[HexMachina]

"Dob me in" is Australian for tattletale? So I assume it's just a term inserted to make the story relatable to it's audience, same meaning if not an exact translation. And him driving the boat would 100% tell us he was part of the people smuggling operation. I don't know what the heck went on prior to the cameras showing up to record the little boy's body being picked up by the cop, but if the whole scene was staged....fuck me :(

I don't know how you make the jump from "boy's father was driving the boat" to "the whole scene was staged". Please, elaborate

[Hayyoth]

I don't know how you make the jump from "boy's father was driving the boat" to "the whole scene was staged". Please, elaborate

I don't really want to. I hope it wasn't, the thought that it might have been is awful. But the whole set up seems wrong to me, but yeah I think I'll leave it at that.

[Eyron]

Hungary is supposed to register refugees seeking asylum as the first EU country they enter. That's what it's trying to do. It can be criticized for not doing it perfectly, smoothly or quickly enough as anticipated by the EU and the refugees themselves. Hungary however has every right to raise a fence at its border with Serbia as does the UK in Calais. Hungary didn't decide to treat the refugees in an inhuman way. It shares responsibility with the refugees themselves in letting the situation get out of control at the railway station and at the Serbian border. Hungary however does not purposely treat refugees "like animals" based on any sort of ideology. And it most definitely does not deserve blantant bashing, world wide humiliation and constant blaming for trying to do its duty as a EU member to the EU and a sovereign country to its people. So please give Hungary due respect and objectivity when criticizing its leaders and measures because it deserves it the same way the UK or Germany or the refugees do.

I think the current government is the cause for the unusually harsh critique, since it is well known for being well far right and having racist and antisemite proposals in their agenda (that has perhaps changed some over the years especially now that they are in power, but that's where the roots of Orbán are. I wrote a paper on it some 12 years ago). While I do get the difficulty in living up to the EU rules, it has been evident that a more lax approach is accepted, at least on the overt media in the EU. The circumstances are exceptional after all. But we don't know what pressure is put on your government behind the screens, to be sure.

The public in Hungary are not the ones who are criticized.

I agree that the refugees should cooperate but they live off information that spread down word to mouth and has to make snap decisions which may effect the rest of their lives. I understand that they are afraid. The UK is not better in any way, and my own country isn't much better. We don't have to deal with the masses, just those who trickle in. The public here is mobilising funds, sending it to organisations that help, and aid those that come here, or pass through to Norway. But, we are as you say still relying on the arrival countries to manage the situation.

[Biglose]

This is patently false. Refugees have the right to enter Schengen, even without necessary documents, anyone seeking asylum are entitled to enter the EU. Ideally according to the more inane rules of Dublin II, the refugees should be registered in the first EU country they enter, where they should apply for asylum. In the current situation, criticising Hungary for not registering these refugees are rather misplaced, since the same is true for Austria, Germany, Denmark, and Sweden.

 

But the Hungarian government being criticised for not treating refugees humanely are absolutely in its place.

Please inform yourself about what the law actually is. The countries have to actually secure their border and transit shall only be possible by certain crossing/transportation hubs. So yes, what Hungary does is what they are actually requiered after the Schengen and Dublin. You can question how good they are doing it and how reasonable but by the spirit and the latter of the law, they are following. (With maybe a few issues)

The point is, those laws where never written for such a situation. The idea after the law would be, that there should be a gigantic line at one of Hungarys border crossing where people wait to be registered.

[Tijgy]

I heard a lot of different stories about Aylan (in English media they use Alan?) But in the end, it doesn't or at least should not matter. There is a problem of people crossing the sea and people dying during that trip. The lives of the other children, women and men do also matter!! And it actually do not matter if they are fleeing from war or they are fleeing from an economic situation. 

 

In the end Europe, Turkey, Libia and Morocco should ensure they stop this crossing of the sea. 

[Eyron]

And yes, the spelling of the name Alan is not very important afaik since it's only pronounciation that rules spelling from one language to another, there are no set rules. Spelling is adjusted to language and decision of the individual.

[Biglose]

And again, Dublin II is fundamentally flawed, because it bascially leaves EU countries at the border hanging out to dry.

It's convenient for the central and northern European countries, because they are not the ones who have to deal with the refugees. That's the problem for Greece, Italy, Malta and to a lesser degree Spain and France. There's no EU wide refugee/asylum system. That will need to come now. It will entail quotas. And a new EU wide refugee system will most certainly restrict the free transit of refugees within the EU.

Yeah, thats what experts have been saying for about 4 years. There will be a desaster, we need a uniform system and we need to support the countrys with external borders. Now, we have the desaster and one system after the next shuts down. Hungary is down, austria is down, in germany bavaria is about to go down. (Government is now trying to pass emergency laws which for example would allow to force privat citicens to rent houses or appartments to refugees (for a flat rate payed by the government).

[Jacques the Japer]

Whens the last time the average mainstream journalist  got of their asses to do some individual investigation anyway?