Chaircat Meow Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 7/7 only targeted London just as the Troubles only targeted NI. You just choose to ignore the loyalist paramilitaries because they don't fit your preconceived narrative.In essence, that's what you said. Ulstar loyalists fought the IRA, so it's all good, no matter how many innocents or peace actvists like Rosemary Nelson died. That's your position. It still doesn't mean the UK doesn't have a right-wing extremism problem, it's just located outside of England, so you don't really care.No, I did not say it's all good. I said the IRA were the terrorist threat to the UK, and to NI and other people responded in kind. Islamic terrorism does not just target London, there have been incidents in the rest of England and in Scotland. Mi5 are combatting roughly one terrorist plot from Islamists a month. The scale of the threat here is wildly out of proportion to any threat coming from the far-right (which is basically non-existent). Your feeble response to this is to talk about violence in NI, which has largely ceased, and which derived from a historic problem present in one small part of the UK, and which was driven by left-wing terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 So an eye for an eye is acceptable to you. OK then.And as I said, it may well be that the UK has no right-wing extremism problem. I still doubt it, but perhaps you're really luckier than anybody else in that regard. In which case, congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Daily reminder to immigration pushers that actions have consequences. They can't predict or control the outcome of immigration, any more than they could have predicted this election result. Just because people are afraid to voice their opinion in public doesn't mean they agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The last time I read something about the French elections (department level), I read FN would win in two regions (or more exactly the region of MLP and of her niece). But those percentages are on national level! FN won in six of the 13 regions so they won big time. It is still the results of the first round so those numbers might still change?Still, this is also important on European level. Already the leader of the largest party in my country region, Flanders (Belgian politics are ridiculous) is now saying we should take action and create measures similar as what the Flemish extreme right party (they are sort of friends with FN) wants to impose. I guess he is probably afraid his voters will go back to that party (which used to the biggest party in Flanders but now they are actually very small. In the latest poll they were on a comeback) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 But I think in the next round FN would not be the first anymore in some regions, because of the other socialist parties who excluded for the next round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Daily reminder to immigration pushers that actions have consequences. They can't predict or control the outcome of immigration, any more than they could have predicted this election result. Just because people are afraid to voice their opinion in public doesn't mean they agree with youWhat actions have what consequences here exactly?Also lol "immigration pushers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 This is not like an American election, you know. They have not 'won', yet. They need to get 50% of the votes, I believe.And the elections are regional elections, lower level government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 This is not like an American election, you know. They have not 'won', yet. They need to get 50% of the votes, I believe.And the elections are regional elections, lower level government.If I understood correctly, they need indeed the first round 50% to win completely. Now there will be a second round in which some parties are excluded because they had to less votes. If I understood thisThe socialists are planning to step back in some regions to block Front National: they believe their voters would vote for the party of Sarkozy. (Vive la democratie????). In other regions the socialists might get support of other red or green parties, ... So there is indeed nothing decided and everything can happen. However to say these results of the first round do not mean anything is completely wrong. If the socialists would for example step down in the region of Marion Le Pen (the niece - which is the area around Marseille (the Provence) area with a high migrant population - won with more than 40 %), the republicans might get 60 % there. They will "win" then the fact remains the highest number chose for Front National and the reason why the FN did lose would be the result of a strategic decision. What will they do then? Ignore the +/- 30 % people who voted for the Front National? Is it democratic to ignore that voice? Is it not a signal so many people voted for their idead? You cannot deny this signal which can be found over whole Europe: French, Hungary, the Netherlands, Austria, ... And just ignoring it (which would be the bad actions Ramsay Gimp spoke off) would actually lead to more unhappiness of the Europeans towards the current European policy decided by Merkel, Hollande, Tusk and Juncker (which would be the bad consequences Ramsay Gimp spoke off). (However @Ramsay Gimp I might interpret your post wrong?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If I understood correctly, they need indeed the first round 50% to win completely.Now there will be a second round in which some parties are excluded because they had to less votes. If I understood thisThe socialists are planning to step back in some regions to block Front National: they believe their voters would vote for the party of Sarkozy. (Vive la democratie????). In other regions the socialists might get support of other red or green parties, ... So there is indeed nothing decided and everything can happen.However to say these results of the first round do not mean anything is completely wrong. If the socialists would for example step down in the region of Marion Le Pen (the niece - which is the area around Marseille (the Provence) area with a high migrant population - won with more than 40 %), the republicans might get 60 % there. They will "win" then the fact remains the highest number chose for Front National and the reason why the FN did lose would be the result of a strategic decision. What will they do then? Ignore the +/- 30 % people who voted for the Front National? Is it democratic to ignore that voice? Is it not a signal so many people voted for their idead? You cannot deny this signal which can be found over whole Europe: French, Hungary, the Netherlands, Austria, ... And just ignoring it (which would be the bad actions Ramsay Gimp spoke off) would actually lead to more unhappiness of the Europeans towards the current European policy decided by Merkel, Hollande, Tusk and Juncker (which would be the bad consequences Ramsay Gimp spoke off).(However @Ramsay Gimp I might interpret your post wrong?) My understanding is that 75% of the seats are allocated by PR in Round 1. Therefore, FN will have won about 23% of the total seats, even if they are squeezed out in Round 2. In Round 2, the remaining 25% of seats are allocated to the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Supposedly the FN did better than anyone else in the 18-24 age group. That's a total contrast to the voting base of right-wing parties in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Supposedly the FN did better than anyone else in the 18-24 age group. That's a total contrast to the voting base of right-wing parties in the UK.In complete contrast to the UK, FN is massively popular among students.There was one recent poll that gave FN the support of 40% of 18-34 year olds, compared to 29% generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 In complete contrast to the UK, FN is massively popular among students.There was one recent poll that gave FN the support of 40% of 18-34 year olds, compared to 29% generally.Any ideas as to why this is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Any ideas as to why this is?Honestly, I'm not sure. I believe the same is true in several continental countries like Austria, Poland, and Holland. The Conservatives and UKIP certainly didn't get a derisory vote among 18-34 year olds in May (32% and 9% respectively) but their strength is with the over 50s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 don't know much about FN, but people act like being more restrictive/selective regarding immigration is the dawn of facism or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Well, the French FN was founded by a fascist, who's also the father of the current party leader. So... yes, concern about fascist leanings in that party are far from unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 don't know much about FN, but people act like being more restrictive/selective regarding immigration is the dawn of facism or somethingFascism is just the go to term for lefties to describe anything that they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Fascism is just the go to term for lefties to describe anything that they don't like. Because this is totally not Nazi apologism, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Jean-Marie Le Pen certainly held (and voiced) a number of problematic beliefs. However, if you read the rest of that link, you will see that his successor went to considerable lengths to demonstrate that FN no longer holds these beliefs and in fact kicked Jean-Marie out of the party over some of those apologetic comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 My understanding is that 75% of the seats are allocated by PR in Round 1. Therefore, FN will have won about 23% of the total seats, even if they are squeezed out in Round 2. In Round 2, the remaining 25% of seats are allocated to the winner.I think you might be right? I at least found this on wikipedia. But the allocation of seats is never that easy to understand. Depuis les réformes de 1999 et 2003, les conseillers régionaux sont élus au scrutin proportionnel à deux tours avec prime majoritaire.L'attribution des sièges a lieu au premier tour si une liste recueille plus de 50 % des suffrages exprimés, sinon elle a lieu au second tour. Pour se maintenir au second tour, une liste doit recueillir au moins 10 % des suffrages exprimés. Une liste qui a recueilli au moins 5 % des suffrages exprimés peut fusionner avec une liste qui se maintient au second tour.Lors de la répartition des sièges, un quart des sièges du conseil régional sont d'abord attribués à la liste arrivée en tête. Le reste des sièges est ensuite attribué à l'ensemble des listes ayant recueilli au moins 5 % des suffrages exprimés. Ainsi, avec la prime, la liste arrivée en tête peut disposer d'une majorité au conseil régional à partir d'environ 33 % des suffrages exprimés au second tour.Le nombre de sièges attribués à chaque liste est calculé au niveau de la région mais, au sein de chaque liste, les sièges sont attribués par sections départementales en fonction des suffrages obtenus par la liste dans chaque département.La loi oblige chaque liste à comporter autant d'hommes que de femmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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