What if Rhaegar was injured and captured?

[purple-eyes]

I do not think Rhaegar deserved to win. 

He messed up almost everybody's life, if he wins, then this will encourage princes to go out and kidnap women of other people. 

So let us say he was like Barristan, he was injured and captured, everything else remain same. 

1. rhaegar was badly injured and captured by rebellions army. 

2. Tywin did same thing and Aerys was still killed.

3. Lyanna still died in TOJ and KG still died guarding them. Ned got Jon. 

4. Elia and two children were still killed, rhaegar was imprisoned, so he knew his family were butchered but he could not do anything. 

 

Will he be simply killed? sent to wall?

Will people agree to hold him as next king since he is so handsome and beloved and good at harp?

Will Ned tell him the situation of Jon?

 

Please discuss seriously. 

 

 

 

[tf13]

GRRM already said that Rhaegar's body was burned.

[purple-eyes]

GRRM already said that Rhaegar's body was burned.

come on, this is holiday season, let us have some fun. 

[WolfgangII]

If Rhaegar didn't die in the Trident, he will put to the sword (or even burned to replicate Rickard's death) shortly after. The rebels were aiming for the Iron Throne, they don't need Rhaegar, in fact they have to get rid of him (that's the same thought Tywin had when he commanded the Mountain to kill Elia and her children) and that's why Stannis was ordered to captured Dragonstone with the remaining Targaryens, and that's why Ned hid Jon (of R+L=J is true). The Wall, the Black cells, Essos, Sothoryos, or Ib will not suffice; Rhaegar was the prince, Aerys heir if Viserys case is dismissed. He need it to die in order to Robert secure his conquest.

Now, to entertain the thought, lets pretend Rhaegar was captured, he talked with the rebels about the changes he intended to make (maybe even explain what the heck is happening in the ToJ). Could the rebels negotiate a deal with Rhaegar at this point? Robert problably will be pissed, but does this scenario can be benefital to Jon, Ned and Hoster?

[purple-eyes]

If Rhaegar didn't die in the Trident, he will put to the sword (or even burned to replicate Rickard's death) shortly after. The rebels were aiming for the Iron Throne, they don't need Rhaegar, in fact they have to get rid of him (that's the same thought Tywin had when he commanded the Mountain to kill Elia and her children) and that's why Stannis was ordered to captured Dragonstone with the remaining Targaryens, and that's why Ned hid Jon (of R+L=J is true). The Wall, the Black cells, Essos, Sothoryos, or Ib will not suffice; Rhaegar was the prince, Aerys heir if Viserys case is dismissed. He need it to die in order to Robert secure his conquest.

Now, to entertain the thought, lets pretend Rhaegar was captured, he talked with the rebels about the changes he intended to make (maybe even explain what the heck is happening in the ToJ). Could the rebels negotiate a deal with Rhaegar at this point? Robert problably will be pissed, but does this scenario can be benefital to Jon, Ned and Hoster?

Rhaegar is probably not in a position to negotiate. 

whatever changes he wanted to make, he did not do, just a dream. 

I feel like he will either be killed along with his family, or sent to the wall. 

But if Ned takes care of jon secretly as the actual situation, he may send Jon to wall earlier to meet his father. 

 

[Jeeves]

Rhaegar would end up the "Most Wanted" fugitive in Westeros.  The only way he lives?  Robert doesn't find out about it until later.  Rhaegar gets a good head start on the manhunt.  

[TimJames]

I agree, he totally caused a lot of suffering that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Either through criminal negligence or through outright malice, Rhaegar caused Robert's Rebellion.

If he's captured on the battlefield, then he'll be executed. That's if he's lucky.

If Rhaegar's unlucky, then Robert will torture him for information. Then execute him.

 

[WolfgangII]

Rhaegar is probably not in a position to negotiate. 

whatever changes he wanted to make, he did not do, just a dream. 

I feel like he will either be killed along with his family, or sent to the wall. 

But if Ned takes care of jon secretly as the actual situation, he may send Jon to wall earlier to meet his father. 

 

I don't think Rhaegar will be sent to the Wall. It's to risky for the new regime. Aegor Rivers was sent to the Wall after the Third Blackfyre Rebellion and he escaped to plot the Fourth. Rhaegar would have even more friends to launch a rebellion with. The only way Rhaegar could live is with the pardon of the rebels, and why would they do that? Does Rhagear had/knows something they want?

[Lord Lannister]

Robert's hatred of all things Targaryen was so absolute that he was willing to order a hit on a thirteen year old pregnant girl. I can't see him letting Rhaegar, the Targaryen who was the seed of all that hate, live under any circumstance short of death.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

I do not think Rhaegar deserved to win. 

He messed up almost everybody's life, if he wins, then this will encourage princes to go out and kidnap women of other people. 

So let us say he was like Barristan, he was injured and captured, everything else remain same. 

1. rhaegar was badly injured and captured by rebellions army. 

2. Tywin did same thing and Aerys was still killed.

3. Lyanna still died in TOJ and KG still died guarding them. Ned got Jon. 

4. Elia and two children were still killed, rhaegar was imprisoned, so he knew his family were butchered but he could not do anything. 

 

Will he be simply killed? sent to wall?

Will people agree to hold him as next king since he is so handsome and beloved and good at harp?

Will Ned tell him the situation of Jon?

 

Please discuss seriously. 

 

 

 

Well, first off, if Rhaegar survives the battle of the Trident as a prisoner, then we have a whole new scenario open wherein certain things might not play out as they did in the books.

We can't assume that the TOJ scenario happens as it does in the original timeline. Why would Ned not ask any questions of Rhaegar about his sister? That'd be the only reason Robert would even keep him alive at that point. For information regarding Lyanna and anything else important to know.

And hell, if Robert can be restrained, Jon Arryn and Ned Stark force Rhaegar to send a message to his father to surrender, or maybe Rhaegar even speaks with the loyalists and persuades them to back down and abandon Aerys for the greater good? Who knows.

For sure, though, if Rhaegar lives, that means Lyanna doesn't necessarily die, and maybe even Elia and her kids survive, since Tywin might reconsider.

Then again Rhaegar will likely either be imprisoned somewhere secure for the rest of his life, or executed after a hasty trial, maybe even a trial by combat between himself and Robert.

[mediterraneo]

i think that somebody could mount a "We killed the Mad King, now Thaegar is the legitimate heir" case.

It would be very difficult to explain to Balon Greyjoy, to Doran Martell and at that point to Mace Tyrell that they had to submit to some Baratheon king if Rhaegar was alive, and his own heirs too.

A big difference could come in Tywin Lannister's actions, even if the OP called for keeping the sack of King's Landing: if he is not onboard, completely committed with the Baratheon king, to the point of ordering the massacre of the royal family, the usurper's dogs could very well find themselves without the critical mass to actually enforce their rule over the continent.

I mean, the risk is putting yourself in a very weak position if Rhaegar was executed while his family was still alive in Dragonstone: killing someone in battle is a good thing for reputation. Assassinating a prisoner because he is in the way for you to inherit his lands is a whole other matter, for much as you say it was for eloping with Lyanna. Lyanna's word on the matter could be very important: "We were in love, we ran together" could create problems for Robert to justify killing a king-to-be. There is Aegon the Unlikely's succession precedent, in which an heir married who he shouldn't and got simply exiled with his new wife.

In any case, I feel that killing Rhaegar in that case could make the Usurper a lot weaker as a king, to the point of letting Balon's Rebellion having sense. If the Tyrell kept the Arbor's fleet out of the fray or even turn it against the Baratheon fleet at the worst moment... It could end badly. Produce Viserys Targaryen, third of his name, in Highgarden or in Oldtown and there is a very serious problem for the kingdom.

If you don't kill Rhaegar... he is the King. It becomes a problem for everything.
Maybe it could have ended with a stable Handship in Jon Arryn's hands, ruling the Seven Kingdom from the capitol while Rhaegar was kept, say, at the Eirye or in WInterfell.
This solution could have been valid for a generation, until Rhaegar's death, letting Viserys or his heirs inherit legally the full powers of the King or it could have been the beginning of a sort of a Shogunate, or of the regime of the Mayor of the Palace in the Merovingian courts, if you want. The King would be a nominal figure, kept prisoner more than guarded by his first and foremost servant, the real wielder of the political power, in a scale of greys between the hereditary regime and the de-facto hereditary regime of the Hands.

I would love to read history and sociology books about Westeros in the period of the Handship.

 

PS: If Rhaegar hadn't done the favor of letting himself be killed in a fair fight... Possibly Jon Arryn and Hosteen Tully would have had him killed, and invent some legend about the duel between Robert and Rhaegar during the battle, with some details to make it more real, let's say battle stopping to find his rubies in the waters of the river. Oh, wait...

[Lord Lannister]

Expanding on my last post, a more interesting scenario would be if Rhaegar was grievously injured but managed to slay Robert at the Ruby Ford(maybe it would be called Antler Ford?). This would let the cooler heads of Jon Arryn and Hooster Tully decide the Dragonprince's fate.

[Dorian Martell]

I do not think Rhaegar deserved to win. 

He messed up almost everybody's life, if he wins, then this will encourage princes to go out and kidnap women of other people. 

So let us say he was like Barristan, he was injured and captured, everything else remain same. 

1. rhaegar was badly injured and captured by rebellions army. 

2. Tywin did same thing and Aerys was still killed.

3. Lyanna still died in TOJ and KG still died guarding them. Ned got Jon. 

4. Elia and two children were still killed, rhaegar was imprisoned, so he knew his family were butchered but he could not do anything. 

 

Will he be simply killed? sent to wall?

Will people agree to hold him as next king since he is so handsome and beloved and good at harp?

Will Ned tell him the situation of Jon?

 

Please discuss seriously. 

 

 

 

If Rhaegar was injured and captured we wouldn't have any of the motivation for Ned. we would lose the Jon plot at the wall, no Jon/Tyrion friendship  no great ranging, no Stannis to the rescue, no betrayal, no sam the slayer, no wildlings passing underneath the wall and no Journey to oldtown via Bravos. In otherwords, we would not have much of a story 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Expanding on my last post, a more interesting scenario would be if Rhaegar was grievously injured but managed to slay Robert at the Ruby Ford(maybe it would be called Antler Ford?). This would let the cooler heads of Jon Arryn and Hooster Tully decide the Dragonprince's fate.

Ah, now THAT's a really interesting situation: Rhaegar is wounded and captured, and the army is defeated, but Robert is dead.

Where does that leave Ned Stark, Hoster Tully, and Jon Arryn? They all had reason to rebel against the Mad King, and one of them has a few reasons to hate Rhaegar for what his actions caused. And now Robert Baratheon, the face of the rebellion, is dead.

So what to do? Stannis and Renly are trapped in Storm's End, and Stannis is the obvious heir to House Baratheon. But meanwhile Rhaegar, who was highly popular as opposed to his father, is still alive, as is his family.

Aerys is still alive, as are his wife and Viserys, and Daenerys presumably is going to be born. Tywin hears about the defeat, but also about Robert's death, so that would give him enough cause to wait and see what happens next.

If Rhaegar could produce Lyanna and Lyanna would swear that she eloped with him rather than being carried off, then Ned wouldn't have it in him to slay Rhaegar, let alone punish Lyanna. If Lyanna was indeed raped, that's another story, but assuming Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away together, Ned might still be furious but he wouldn't be able to put them to death like Robert would have.

And there would be so many people who would defend Rhaegar. So many people would try to rescue him from the rebels.

The only hope at that point would be for Rhaegar to make an agreement with the surviving leaders to take the throne away from his father somehow and pardon all the participants of Robert's Rebellion. Stannis becomes Lord of Storm's End, presumably marries Cersei instead of Selyse Florent. Ned goes home and rules the North, and Lyanna moves in with Rhaegar, only to have to put up with Elia Martell. Maybe Lyanna decides she doesn't want to live in the prissy southern kingdoms and gets sick of Rhaegar. Maybe she supplants Elia and becomes the wolf queen of Westeros? But either way, if Rhaegar and the rebel leaders can make peace, assuming Robert and Aerys both die, then that's the best case scenario for everyone.

[Light a wight tonight]

Rhaegar lives, Aerys dies, Elia and her kids die. Lyanna dies, Jon lives. Ned et al force Rhaegar to claim that he married Lyanna and that Jon is his legitimate son and heir. Rhaegar is forced to abdicate in favor of Jon, (who has a Valyrian name, not a Westerosi one). Rhaegar and Viserys are sent to the Wall and Daenerys to the Silent Sisters.

And they all live happily until the Others break the Wall and wreak havoc.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Robert's hatred of all things Targaryen was so absolute that he was willing to order a hit on a thirteen year old pregnant girl. I can't see him letting Rhaegar, the Targaryen who was the seed of all that hate, live under any circumstance short of death.

Only because she was married to a Khal who had a Khalisar of approx 50-80K  plus warriors which had only one purpose, form an alliance to retake Westeros. Why wait for someone to come and kill you when you know they are actively planning to do so and make  a major move like that in order to do so. He resisted when they first married but when she became pregnant, it became apparent that it was a somewhat successful union, he acted. Under his circumstances, I would have done the same thing.

[purple-eyes]

Only because she was married to a Khal who had a Khalisar of approx 5-80K  plus warriors which had only one purpose, form an alliance to retake Westeros. Why wait for someone to come and kill you when you know they are actively planning to do so and make  a major move like that in order to do so. He resisted when they first married but when she became pregnant, it became apparent that it was a somewhat successful union, he acted. Under his circumstances, I would have done the same thing.

exactly. Do not know why people criticize this. It is not a good thing. But it is a politically right thing to do. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

exactly. Do not know why people criticize this. It is not a good thing. But it is a politically right thing to do. 

Yes, thanks, given the situation, it was the practical thing to do. Nip it in the bud.  Robert seems to have never tried to get his hands on them once they left Dragonstone. The Golden Company turned Viserys down. They kept tabs on them but left them alone. Had Viserys married her, I do not think he would have bothered. Even if they had kids, they were no threat. Marry her to Drogo and that was a problem, a concern. She became pregnant, prophecies (I do not think he knew about those yet) and he had to act.

[TimJames]

exactly. Do not know why people criticize this. It is not a good thing. But it is a politically right thing to do. 

I would have done the same thing in Robert's case. The life of a 13 year old is nothing compared to the lives of your people, lives that would be endangered or even killed if Daenerys tried to invade Westeros.

[Kaibaman]

If Rhaegar got captured I'm not sure Tywin would make his move on King's Landing. He only mobilized his forces and sacked the capital after Rhaegar lost and died at the Trident, but if Rhaegar lived the possibility of him still becoming king would be too risky for Tywin to try anything.