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Lord Wraith

R+L=J v.157

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it is not almost one year after tourney. 

We have no idea when is the tourney, there are hints that tourney happened pretty late in the year 281. 

Please outline these 'hints.'

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Please outline these 'hints.'

too many. 

1. False spring only lasted less than two turns, when the year drew to close, winter returned to westeros with vengeance. The whole year of 280 and 281 are winters, pretty cold, there was only a brief false spring for two months. We do not have a false summer and autumn between false spring and winter. It is winter-----false spring (less than two months)-----winter. 

2. Rhaegar took on a journey which ultimately led him back to riverlands. Rhaegar's home is in DS. Only if he just left riverlands then went there again, we will say he "back" to riverlands. He was in riverlands for HH tourney. 

Imagine this, your home is in chicago. You go to New York for Olympics. Then you go home. Then after one year, you somehow go to New York again, will you call it " going back to New York"? No. It is not your home. It is far more likely that you go home after Olympics, after like one or two month, then you "go back" to New York. 

3. Why both hoster and Rickard are absent from tourney? Why cat and lysa did not attend either? Easy, they are preparing the wedding. 

4. Why lyanna was at HH at abduction in stead of staying with father? Because time is short, no point for her to go back to winterfell and come back again. 

5. Why Ned and robert were in eyrie? They were former wards. And they saw jon at tourney. Easy, after tourney, they visited eyrie shortly before Brandon's wedding. 

6. Why Elbert aryyn and Kyle Royce were with brandon? They should be with Ned or in eyrie. Because they met in HH tourney and they decided to accompany brandon to his wedding. 

7. In 281, many things happened before tourney. elia stayed in bed for several months. Elia traveled and were attacked by kingswood brothers. Then arthur took a battle to clean them. Then Jaime visited cersei. Then cersei arranged him to KG. After one month, he was asked to attend tourney to join KG. How many months do you think for these to happen? More than half a year I have to say. 

8 In show, they modified timeline to make things easier and more reasonable. HH tourney was set as in the same year as robert rebellion. 

I would say there are only about three four months at most between tourney and abduction. 

 

Only contradictory thing is that why nobody mention that Elia was pregnant during HH tourney?

Because Elia is not important anyway so GRRM did not bother to mention it. Whole HH tourney was set for Rhaegar and Lyanna. Elia was just a background to show how special the crowning is. 

If you ask him this question, he would simply say: I did not mention she was pregnant, does not mean she can not be pregnant at that moment. 

 

 

 

 

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GRRM supposedly said in an interview that we are going to learn the details of HH - though I must admit I might have got carried away and didn't check the source.

 On the other hand, it does make sense - somehow, I never fully realized until JonCon's Red Beard pointed it out, that we currently have a mix of Lyanna-Elia character, Elia Sand, headed towards JonCon and fAegon, so quite some reminiscencing aka info dump is bound to happen.

- Which makes me think about another thing: what exactly did Yandel mean that by all accounts, Lyanna was a wild and boyish thing? I don't think that Lyanna's mischief with Benjen up North made it beyond the gates of Winterfell, and I don't think that fondness of horseriding quite qualifies. Could it be that Lyanna's feats at HH became known? Did even her KotLT identity leak eventually? The way Meera and Jojen find it strange that Bran never heard the story seems to imply that it was no secret, or else Bran wouldn't be told, and if even the Stark kids could know, then a lot of people probably knew, as well, or am I wrong?

A girl named Elia which closely resembles Lyanna most certainly will trigger quite a few memories in Jon Connington. He has yet to think about Lyanna Stark, and one really wonders what he knows about her and Rhaegar. He could effectively know everything about them besides the fact that Lyanna's child by Rhaegar survived/lived. There is this somewhat unusual overly correct phrasing when he introduces Prince Aegon to the Golden Company.

Lyanna Stark wouldn't exactly have been an unknown historical figure. She died early but she very much was the cause of Robert's Rebellion and it is publicly known that Robert loved Lyanna very much. In that sense there would also be reports and tales about Lyanna Stark's exploits (her being wild and boyish) that have nothing to do with Harrenhal. People recognize a tomboy rather quickly, and Lyanna must have been in the South on more than one occasion - and even if she wasn't, the stories told about her in the North live on to this day and would have been circulated in the South, too.

My personal guess about the Reeds finding it curious that Bran doesn't know is that they find it strange that Ned Stark kept such a vital detail of the life of his sister from his own children. Something that would make even more sense if we keep in mind that Howland was obviously friends with Lyanna long before he even met Ned. Howland seems to be honoring the memory of Lyanna in the Neck whereas Ned Stark didn't do much in that field besides building a statue.

One really wonders why the hell Howland didn't send anyone to Jon Snow at the Wall (or went there himself) to tell him the truth. Especially in light of the fact that Jojen and Meera most likely know who Jon Snow's parents were, it is very strange that the Reeds went to great lengths to evade the NW and Jon Snow when they took Bran to Bloodraven.

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To stack speculation upon speculation, perhaps Rickard planned to send Lyanna to learn southern lady-like ways from Minisa (Whent) Tully, but she died. For some reason, possibly upon Brandon or Hoster's suggestion, Lyanna was redirected to foster with the Whent's of Harrenhal. She was already there and there was a soon to be cousin-in-law of around the same age. Heck, they could have consulted Rickard via raven.

This works well with the answer to the question "why were the Tully's not at Harrenhal" with the same answer; Minisa died recently.

Catelyn states somewhere that she doesn't have clear memories of her mother anymore, implying that Minisa died not too many years after Edmure's bith. By the time the tourney took place, she most likely had been dead for a few years already.

Catelyn has several memories of her mother still. And while Minisa still lived for parts of Catelyn's childhood...

Nonetheless, during all those years of Catelyn's girlhood, it had been Brynden the Blackfish to whom Lord Hoster's children had run with their tears and their tales, when Father was too busy and Mother too ill. Catelyn, Lysa, Edmure … and yes, even Petyr Baelish, their father's ward … he had listened to them all patiently, as he listened now, laughing at their triumphs and sympathizing with their childish misfortunes.

The following quote would imply that she had died before Catelyn had been betrothed to Brandon, doesn't it? 

"Our duty." Catelyn's face was drawn as she started across the yard. I have always done my duty, she thought. Perhaps that was why her lord father had always cherished her best of all his children. Her two older brothers had both died in infancy, so she had been son as well as daughter to Lord Hoster until Edmure was born. Then her mother had died and her father had told her that she must be the lady of Riverrun now, and she had done that too. And when Lord Hoster promised her to Brandon Stark, she had thanked him for making her such a splendid match.

 Catelyn was born in 264 AC, and betrothed at the age of 12, placing her betrothal in 276/277 AC. Years before Harrenhal. 

 

 

2. Rhaegar took on a journey which ultimately led him back to riverlands. Rhaegar's home is in DS. Only if he just left riverlands then went there again, we will say he "back" to riverlands. He was in riverlands for HH tourney. 

Imagine this, your home is in chicago. You go to New York for Olympics. Then you go home. Then after one year, you somehow go to New York again, will you call it " going back to New York"? No. It is not your home. It is far more likely that you go home after Olympics, after like one or two month, then you "go back" to New York. 

I'd describe it as going back to Ned York.

 

3. Why both hoster and Rickard are absent from tourney? Why cat and lysa did not attend either? Easy, they are preparing the wedding. 

A wedding that would at the earliest occur half a year later.. You can take a brake from such. Nor would that stop you from sending your brother, for example, in your stead. Or Rickard.

In fact, both men travelling to Harrenhal would be the perfect oppertunity to plan the wedding. They'd have the time to discuss details together, without the need of constantly having to wait for each other's letter.

 

A girl named Elia which closely resembles Lyanna most certainly will trigger quite a few memories in Jon Connington. He has yet to think about Lyanna Stark, and one really wonders what he knows about her and Rhaegar. He could effectively know everything about them besides the fact that Lyanna's child by Rhaegar survived/lived. There is this somewhat unusual overly correct phrasing when he introduces Prince Aegon to the Golden Company.

Lyanna Stark wouldn't exactly have been an unknown historical figure. She died early but she very much was the cause of Robert's Rebellion and it is publicly known that Robert loved Lyanna very much. In that sense there would also be reports and tales about Lyanna Stark's exploits (her being wild and boyish) that have nothing to do with Harrenhal. People recognize a tomboy rather quickly, and Lyanna must have been in the South on more than one occasion - and even if she wasn't, the stories told about her in the North live on to this day and would have been circulated in the South, too.

My personal guess about the Reeds finding it curious that Bran doesn't know is that they find it strange that Ned Stark kept such a vital detail of the life of his sister from his own children. Something that would make even more sense if we keep in mind that Howland was obviously friends with Lyanna long before he even met Ned. Howland seems to be honoring the memory of Lyanna in the Neck whereas Ned Stark didn't do much in that field besides building a statue.

One really wonders why the hell Howland didn't send anyone to Jon Snow at the Wall (or went there himself) to tell him the truth. Especially in light of the fact that Jojen and Meera most likely know who Jon Snow's parents were, it is very strange that the Reeds went to great lengths to evade the NW and Jon Snow when they took Bran to Bloodraven.

Why would he? Especially if Ned never planned on telling Jon the truth, why would Howland suddenly feel it is his responsibility to tell Jon who his parents were? He can't change anything about Jon's situation on the Wall, anyway. He has already sworn his NW vows...

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A girl named Elia which closely resembles Lyanna most certainly will trigger quite a few memories in Jon Connington. He has yet to think about Lyanna Stark, and one really wonders what he knows about her and Rhaegar. He could effectively know everything about them besides the fact that Lyanna's child by Rhaegar survived/lived. There is this somewhat unusual overly correct phrasing when he introduces Prince Aegon to the Golden Company.

Lyanna Stark wouldn't exactly have been an unknown historical figure. She died early but she very much was the cause of Robert's Rebellion and it is publicly known that Robert loved Lyanna very much. In that sense there would also be reports and tales about Lyanna Stark's exploits (her being wild and boyish) that have nothing to do with Harrenhal. People recognize a tomboy rather quickly, and Lyanna must have been in the South on more than one occasion - and even if she wasn't, the stories told about her in the North live on to this day and would have been circulated in the South, too.

My personal guess about the Reeds finding it curious that Bran doesn't know is that they find it strange that Ned Stark kept such a vital detail of the life of his sister from his own children. Something that would make even more sense if we keep in mind that Howland was obviously friends with Lyanna long before he even met Ned. Howland seems to be honoring the memory of Lyanna in the Neck whereas Ned Stark didn't do much in that field besides building a statue.

One really wonders why the hell Howland didn't send anyone to Jon Snow at the Wall (or went there himself) to tell him the truth. Especially in light of the fact that Jojen and Meera most likely know who Jon Snow's parents were, it is very strange that the Reeds went to great lengths to evade the NW and Jon Snow when they took Bran to Bloodraven.

I do not think JonCon will remember lyanna from elia sand that much. 

They were only same in personality, and JonCon probably would not know this quickly about her mind since she is just a handmaiden and bastard. 

Not to mention JonCon may not even know lyanna's personality and her jousting skill. If he really knew a lot about lyanna, we should have hearted something when he thought about rhaegar's bride. 

I do feel elia sand will bing some memories about elia martell very soon, not only the name, but also she is her niece, and they may even look a little bit similar. 

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Why would he? Especially if Ned never planned on telling Jon the truth, why would Howland suddenly feel it is his responsibility to tell Jon who his parents were? He can't change anything about Jon's situation on the Wall, anyway. He has already sworn his NW vows...

Not back in AGoT. But my point is Jon's parentage not so much the political relevance of all that. If Jon Snow is crucial in the fight against the Others because of his heritage then he should know about that as soon as possible.

And Howland Reed happens to know a lot about all that stuff, presumably, having visited the Isle of Faces and trained with the Green Men. Not to mention that he allowed his two (only?) children to go on a journey with no return beyond the Wall, taking care of the new greenseer in the process. The chances are about zero that Howland doesn't know what Jojen and Meera were up to, nor does it make any sense that he would allow his children to go on such a journey without actually knowing what they were planning to do.

More importantly, there is still a good chance that some remnants of the Children of the Forest still dwell in secret in the Neck. Aside from the Isle of Faces the Neck is the only other place south of the Wall where the threat of the Others and a lot of things related to ancient First Men/Children magic would still be alive.

Unless George wants to create another glaring plot hole like the one in AGoT - where no one ever seemed to be interested in why or how Gared got this far south of the Wall all on his own while being 'half mad' - he has to come up with a very good explanation why the hell Howland Reed shut up so much.

Hell, him not contacting Ned during the latter's way down south to take the office of the Hand could already a pretty big mystery. Perhaps he didn't know anything about what's going on at that point, but still, one should assume Howland must have been aware of the fact that Ned was making a mistake not strengthening the defenses of the North instead. If he didn't even know that much at this point then his training with the Green Men couldn't have involved anything important after all.

In addition, there is also the fact that Howland apparently never contacted either Catelyn or Robb in the wake of Ned's imprisonment/execution. One should assume that he would have done something like that, no?

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Lyanna Stark wouldn't exactly have been an unknown historical figure. She died early but she very much was the cause of Robert's Rebellion and it is publicly known that Robert loved Lyanna very much. 

Nonesense. Brandon Stark started the war, remember??

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Nonesense. Brandon Stark started the war, remember??

Lyanna Stark's disappearance/abduction/whatever began the chain of events that caused the Rebellion. Certainly there would have been other ways to resolve it, perhaps, just as nobody forced Lyonel Baratheon to crown himself the new Storm King after Prince Duncan had married Jenny. Yet historians go with that interpretation.

But even if we only blame Brandon, Aerys, or Jon Arryn for the rebellion, it is still a fact that Lyanna Stark was at the core of the story that shaped events up to the Rebellion - and would therefore have been an important historical figure. A character, people in-universe would talk about. That was my point up there. She wouldn't have been 'just a girl'.

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Lyanna Stark's disappearance/abduction/whatever began the chain of events that caused the Rebellion. Certainly there would have been other ways to resolve it, perhaps, just as nobody forced Lyonel Baratheon to crown himself the new Storm King after Prince Duncan had married Jenny. Yet historians go with that interpretation.

But even if we only blame Brandon, Aerys, or Jon Arryn for the rebellion, it is still a fact that Lyanna Stark was at the core of the story that shaped events up to the Rebellion - and would therefore have been an important historical figure. A character, people in-universe would talk about. That was my point up there. She wouldn't have been 'just a girl'.

sorry Mi'lord. I did a poor job conveying sarcasm there. I agree with your takes! B)

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Lyanna Stark's disappearance/abduction/whatever began the chain of events that caused the Rebellion. Certainly there would have been other ways to resolve it, perhaps, just as nobody forced Lyonel Baratheon to crown himself the new Storm King after Prince Duncan had married Jenny. Yet historians go with that interpretation.

But even if we only blame Brandon, Aerys, or Jon Arryn for the rebellion, it is still a fact that Lyanna Stark was at the core of the story that shaped events up to the Rebellion - and would therefore have been an important historical figure. A character, people in-universe would talk about. That was my point up there. She wouldn't have been 'just a girl'.

I am pretty sure people talked about her a lot during and after the rebellion. 

Although I do not think she is a famous person before the rebellion, and especially before the HH tourney. 

Sure, she is a daughter of LP, but this will not make her as a celebrity in the westeros. Maybe she is famous in North, but that is it. 

Look at how northern people are not familiar with Arya. 

I highly doubt before the HH tourney, many people in the south knew her look and personality and hobbies, etc. 

 

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Nonesense. Brandon Stark started the war, remember??

If you're trolling for responses, you should target those who have argued the point you try to lampoon. In this case, it might get difficult because after participating in debates on who caused the war you seem to forget who it is that others argued are the cause of the war. 

hint: while I roundly criticized Brandon's stupid action as giving Aerys the pretext to do what he did, I think Aerys's actions and Jon Arryn's response to them are the direct cause of the rebellion. 

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If you're trolling for responses, you should target those who have argued the point you try to lampoon. In this case, it might get difficult because after participating in debates on who caused the war you seem to forget who it is that others argued are the cause of the war. 

hint: while I roundly criticized Brandon's stupid action as giving Aerys the pretext to do what he did, I think Aerys's actions and Jon Arryn's response to them are the direct cause of the rebellion. 

I think the majority of King Jon birther truthers try to downplay Lyanna and the gallant Prince Rhaegars enormous blame for starting the war.

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I think the majority of King Jon birther truthers try to downplay Lyanna and the gallant Prince Rhaegars enormous blame for starting the war.

I'm not sure how to respond. I've been on these boards since 2007 and I have no idea what a "King Jon birther truther" is much less what a majority of them think. 

I'm going to guess you mean those who think Jon is born to be the king of Westeros. I'd be happy to explain some time why I think Jon is likely the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but I don't think he will ever sit the Iron Throne. My guess is he leads the various factions of claimants to the throne in the war against the Others and dies in doing so. Not sure where my view fits into your gross oversimplification of a category of posters and fans, but if I owe dues to a cult please don't give them my address.

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I'm not sure how to respond. I've been on these boards since 2007 and I have no idea what a "King Jon birther truther" is much less what a majority of them think. 

I'm going to guess you mean those who think Jon is born to be the king of Westeros. I'd be happy to explain some time why I think Jon is likely the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but I don't think he will ever sit the Iron Throne. My guess is he leads the various factions of claimants to the throne in the war against the Others and dies in doing so. Not sure where my view fits into your gross oversimplification of a category of posters and fans, but if I owe dues to a cult please don't give them my address.

I don't even know how to respond to this. Sounds pretty defensive if you ask me, but that's to be expected when one pays a visit to the RLJ thread.

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I'm not sure how to respond. I've been on these boards since 2007 and I have no idea what a "King Jon birther truther" is much less what a majority of them think. 

I'm going to guess you mean those who think Jon is born to be the king of Westeros. I'd be happy to explain some time why I think Jon is likely the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but I don't think he will ever sit the Iron Throne. My guess is he leads the various factions of claimants to the throne in the war against the Others and dies in doing so. Not sure where my view fits into your gross oversimplification of a category of posters and fans, but if I owe dues to a cult please don't give them my address.

Well, since I recently finished the Osten Ard series George drew so heavily when mapping out the series - it is both eye-opening and potentially mind-blowing how many parallels you can find - I take that chance to make a prediction as to who ends up on the Iron Throne.

I'd say the chances are pretty low that Jon Snow ends up on the Iron Throne even if he survives the series, mostly because the hero in the Osten Ard series, Simon, is essentially the blue print for Jon Snow. He is the hero who is also secretly the descendant of a previous dragonslayer king, ending up on the throne in the end by default because of his ancestral claim, his deeds during the war, and the fact that the only other male claimant left turned out to be not the son of a previous king but a bastard fathered by the king's best friend on the queen (in a Lancelot-like scenario).

In Osten Ard the love interest and future wife of the hero is the only child and daughter of the evil king whom she eventually slays, very much an inspiration for Daenerys. Unlike Dany however Princess Miriamele isn't interested in becoming a Ruling Queen at all, and is therefore very happy to step down for the hero - especially since she can become a queen consort as his side anyway.

This whole scenario of the hidden prince (who grew up as a kitchen boy) somehow becomes worthy enough to become a king is just the kind of thing that doesn't really work in Osten Ard, in my opinion. Making Jon king would even feel more weird in a series like ASoIaF in which politics is much more crueler and the overall approach to this thing much more realistic. You can only become king if you have power, and the very way things are set up makes it very unlikely that Jon Snow could actually push his claim for the throne militarily. All of Westeros more or less quietly falling in love with him because he saved them from the Others (if he is going to do that) would throw the entire series directly into fairy-tale territory. Especially in light of the fact that right now pretty much no one south of the Neck even knows/cares that he exists - the Osten Ard hero Simon had the chance to win fame and become a knight in his own right (due to heroic deeds he did which were then even made into song by others). As of yet, something like that is still missing for Jon Snow, and one really wonders whether George could still include something like that in the story even if he wanted to.

Now, if Dany and Jon Snow both survive I could at best see Dany becoming the Queen Regnant and Jon Snow her Prince Consort at her side. Daenerys is the champion of the House Targaryen throughout those books, no one else. She is the last of her line fighting for the survival of her dynasty, and any hidden/secret Targaryen - be it Jon Snow, Tyrion, Aegon, etc. - will only play the second fiddle behind her. That doesn't mean that Dany and Jon won't rule together, side by side - the Targaryens knew the concept of shared rule, after all, and practiced it back on Dragonstone (Aegon and Elaena Targaryen ruled together) as well as during the early days of the dynasty (Aegon and his sister-wifes ruled together, Jaehaerys I and Alysanne ruled together, and perhaps even Maegor and Tyanna ruled together in some sense) - but the person being the crowned and anointed monarch will be Daenerys I Targaryen, no one else.

But then, that's only my scenario for the case that both Dany and Jon Snow survive the series. I think it is not so unlikely that they do not, but if one of them dies then all bets are off. Right now I'd bet more money on Jon Snow dying than Daenerys since he is the one in the thick of things in regards to the Others as well as the hero who would most likely be the most willing to give anything in his power, including his own life, to defeat the Others - simply because he is the closest to the whole thing and actually supposed to do just that due to his NW vow (something he is not going to forget).

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I hope Martin doesn't copy Williams's Osten Ard series. I loved the first two and a half books and could hardly read through one of the worst endings of fantasy literature I've ever read. It read like Williams couldn't figure out how to end it, and under a publisher's push to finish, put out trash to get through with the series. Horrible, horrible stuff from a quality writer. 

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I hope Martin doesn't copy Williams's Osten Ard series. I loved the first two and a half books and could hardly read through one of the worst endings of fantasy literature I've ever read. It read like Williams couldn't figure out how to end it, and under a publisher's push to finish, put out trash to get through with the series. Horrible, horrible stuff from a quality writer. 

Well, he has already copied it in a lot of ways. His whole world is essentially in part a ripoff of Osten Ard, just a lot bigger. Even the whole succession of people arriving there - first 'the elves', then the nice primitive men, then people who are/became (sort of) Catholic, then the viking-like people (he twisted that around a little, but still...).

Then there is the overall story - a political struggle between various claimants to a special throne serving as smokescreen for something evil going on in the north (evil ice demons who can create zombies) - which is completely identical in its premise with the core story of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn if you break it down. This is also part of the reason why I don't care all that much about Martin's 'core story' or the ultimate ending because I think we already know quite a bit about that...

Not to mention all the tiny things - the evil priest(ess) in red robes, the dangerous guy with dog helmet, the red comet announcing stuff, a climbing you boy hero, birds delivering letters, and much more.

George has blown things up, of course, making it seven kingdoms and added an eastern continent, and introduced much better politicking, but one really wonders whether the Others won't turn out to have Utuk'ku- or Ineluki-like motivations, and whether the Norn/Sithi relationship is not exactly the same relationship that exists between the Others and the Children.

With Williams we have the Norn/Sithi split-up happening in very ancient times, entirely unknown to human memory (although some of them were already there at this point). It could easily be the same with the (original) Others and the Children. In fact, I see little way around that since the idea that the Others are just changed/transformed humans wouldn't be as compelling as such an idea, and rob the series of the underlying concept that humanity's suppression/eradication of the other sentient species should have some consequences.

We already got a pretty big hint in that direction with Bran wondering why the hell the Children just accept their fate and aren't angry. Some of them might have been angry, and might continue to be angry in the shape of evil (and immortal) ice demons.

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Guys, I need to ask you something:

Some time ago, there came information that when Brandon left Cat in Riverrun, he was travelling to meet the Northerners' wedding party. Can anyone fish the source and the quote for me? Thank you.

 

Another thing: if Lyanna didn't accept Rhaegar's crown of blue roses, would she be depicted as wearing them, both in Ned's dream as well as Theon's?

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Guys, I need to ask you something:

Some time ago, there came information that when Brandon left Cat in Riverrun, he was travelling to meet the Northerners' wedding party. Can anyone fish the source and the quote for me? Thank you.

App, Catelyn Tully:

Still, Petyr is sent away from Riverrun, while Brandon departs to join his father's wedding party, coming down from the north. But when Brandon hears of Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna on his way back, he abandons Catelyn, racing to King's Landing.

And from the books, Clash, IIRC, when Cat speaks with Jaime, we know that Brandon was already on his way back to Riverrun.

 

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App, Catelyn Tully:

Still, Petyr is sent away from Riverrun, while Brandon departs to join his father's wedding party, coming down from the north. But when Brandon hears of Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna on his way back, he abandons Catelyn, racing to King's Landing.

And from the books, Clash, IIRC, when Cat speaks with Jaime, we know that Brandon was already on his way back to Riverrun.

 

RT, that was the app quote I was asking about earlier. You found it! It's the first time there is any indication just where Rickard is on his travels to the wedding. Evidence he isn't still in Winterfell when Lyanna is abducted.

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