The Case for Jon & Dany

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Thanks OP, nice post.  I'd argue that neither of them has a "type".  Ygritte is one person, and Daario and Drogo are essentially nothing alike, other than both being warriors which as you point out Jon qualifies for.  Ygritte and Dany for that matter have many similarities and differences.  

Why don't people talk about it much?  Those people that like both characters (or can at least tolerate the idea that both are important and probably good guys) just don't seem to have a strong opinion for the most part.  But I think if pressed they'd say it's a strong possibility.

OTOH Jon super fans are so DESPERATE for Dany to be opposed to Jon because as it looks now, they really should be allies, and since they are both young, attractive, and decent people with good intentions they are likely to have some attraction for each other.  

This has led to some incredibly silly double backflips like saying Jon would totally have murdered the wildling boys (just to make his decision differ from Danys) or that Jon would hate Dany forever because she killed Viserys (and that therefore Jon either lacks empathy or is incapable of understanding context).  Or that the others are really the good guys and Jon will be the nights king or something.  The idea that either of them is so inflexible that they would hold a grudge forever against people merely descended from the enemies of the previous generation is also total nonsense and goes against each of their characters demonstrated actions against their current enemies.  

All that said I don't ship them beyond just wanting the Dany haters to throw their books across the room, and I'd be fine with a variety of outcomes.  

[Joan Jett]

Thematically the combination of fire and ice marrying fire doesn't work.  Valyrians are the other side of the coin to Others.  If Dany wins, that means fire wins, throwing off balance.

 

It works if R + L doesn't equal J.  If Jon is just ice, then Dany and Jon can work because they'll be the song of ice and fire.

I agree with this. If Jon is a targ and Dany is a targ its too much fire, not enough ice. R+L=J is pretty much canon to me, so I never considered them for the 'ice + fire' angle. 

And wasn't the original title for the last book supposed to be 'A Time for Wolves'?   Dany isn't wolf enough if you ask me. 

[kimim]

...

OTOH Jon super fans are so DESPERATE for Dany to be opposed to Jon because as it looks now, they really should be allies, and since they are both young, attractive, and decent people with good intentions they are likely to have some attraction for each other.  

This has led to some incredibly silly double backflips like saying Jon would totally have murdered the wildling boys (just to make his decision differ from Danys) or that Jon would hate Dany forever because she killed Viserys (and that therefore Jon either lacks empathy or is incapable of understanding context).  Or that the others are really the good guys and Jon will be the nights king or something.  The idea that either of them is so inflexible that they would hold a grudge forever against people merely descended from the enemies of the previous generation is also total nonsense and goes against each of their characters demonstrated actions against their current enemies.  

All that said I don't ship them beyond just wanting the Dany haters to throw their books across the room, and I'd be fine with a variety of outcomes.  

OK, Dany for me is the literary equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. Jon I can stand mostly because I love the North, and his pov helps elucidate the place. By himself, he's a bit boring.

I think the OP makes an excellent case for bringing them together. I believe that they will fight together against the Walkers. They might even hook up, idk. A marriage, with the two of them sitting the throne is not where the story is going, imo.

I think we're watching the end of Westeros as we know it, what with civil wars, the potential plague, the famine, the long winter, the zombies, the Walkers. Bringing the Targs back via Jon and Dany, complete with dragons, would be a reversion to Aegon the Conquerer. That kind of a return does not ring right for me. My gut instinct is that no Targ (or Stark or Lannister or Tyrell etc) will be ruler at the end. I think we'll move on to a different family, truly new beginning--think someone like Davos as king.

[OldGimletEye]

Well, if Jon and Dany don't get together, then how is Jon going to get Drogon?

[Pod The Rod]

Well, if Jon and Dany don't get together, then how is Jon going to get Drogon?

I take it you mean Rhaegal/Viserion? 

 

Another thing I forgot to mention in the OP: One of the best moments in all ASOIAF has the potential to result from this pairing, namely Jorah Mormont's reaction to seeing Jon with Dany in his left arm and Longclaw tucked under his right.

[NorthernXY]

I've never thought Jon was a head of a dragon, that's Dany's story.  Trying to fulfill a prophecy leads to turmoil, like Summerhall.  If it's marriage for Jon and Dany, that leaves the third head as a plus one.  We could say it's the reverse of Aegon and his sisters, but that makes Dany a conqueror of foreign people like Aegon.  Like Aegon, she would be above the rules of humans.

[OldGimletEye]

I take it you mean Rhaegal/Viserion? 

 

Nah. I was making a joke. Perhaps a very bad one.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Great breakdown, OP.

I totally agree that Jon and Dany will fall in love. I think the blue rose in the wall of ice symbolizes not just Lyanna/Jon but Jon & Dany's future love. I think the rose symbolizes star-crossed Ice&fire love, not just specifically Lyanna.

Of course I also think that they are twins (i.e. both of them are both ice&fire), and that by the end of the series they will be in an awkward Ladyhawk-type situation where one (or possibly both) of them is trapped in the body of an animal. So don't mind me. :-P

[A spoon of knife and fork]

OK, Dany for me is the literary equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. Jon I can stand mostly because I love the North, and his pov helps elucidate the place. By himself, he's a bit boring.

I think the OP makes an excellent case for bringing them together. I believe that they will fight together against the Walkers. They might even hook up, idk. A marriage, with the two of them sitting the throne is not where the story is going, imo.

I think we're watching the end of Westeros as we know it, what with civil wars, the potential plague, the famine, the long winter, the zombies, the Walkers. Bringing the Targs back via Jon and Dany, complete with dragons, would be a reversion to Aegon the Conquerer. That kind of a return does not ring right for me. My gut instinct is that no Targ (or Stark or Lannister or Tyrell etc) will be ruler at the end. I think we'll move on to a different family, truly new beginning--think someone like Davos as king.

despite being a fan of Dany I agree with most of this analysis.  My current most likely scenario has Tyrion Dany and Jon all dying. 

[NorthernXY]

despite being a fan of Dany I agree with most of this analysis.  My current most likely scenario has Tyrion Dany and Jon all dying. 

I don't think they'll die, but they won't have happy endings. I think many houses will be extinguished, Arryns, Tyrells, Martells, Starks (Rickon will die and Jon is not a true Stark), Baratheons, Tullys, to many Lannasters to die out

[Targaryen Restoration]

There is more than one form of love.  Love can take the form other than the romantic kind.  People automatically jump to the conclusion that Dany will fall in love with Jon.  No, there are more possibilities than that.  The blue rose on the wall can mean many things.  It could simply mean loving someone as a kin, as a nephew.  I am one of those who believe Dany can find someone better than Jon Snow, like Willas Tyrell.  Willas has so much more to offer than a long-faced former LC with a reputation for betraying the Watch.  Should there come any affections between the two, it will be more along the lines of siblings.  Nephew to aunt, Aunt to nephew.  That is, if R+L=J is true.  Many Jon-haters such as myself would hate to see Dany end up with Jon, though there is that possibility.  But, I don't think the story is headed that way.  Dany has her own plot going on in the East.  She will eventually take back her kingdom but by then the north would be over run by wildlings that it's better to just let them separate.  Jon Snow just married a Karstark to a Thenn, making the Thenn owner of Karhold.  That will never sit right with the other lords of the north.  The only way Jon survives is the north dissolving and turning into a wildling territory.  Dany will take back the rest of the kingdom.  Some kind of peace might be worked out between the two, but I do not think it ends in a marriage.  It could end in mutual respect and perhaps empathy between the two.  It is doubtful that it ends in marriage, as a marriage is not necessary.  Much has been made of the division between the Targaryens and the Blackfyres.  A marriage between Dany and Aegon would make more sense if there are still Blackfyre symphatizers in Westeros.  The north is simply not important enough for Dany to marry Jon Snow. 

 

[Scorpion92]

Hell yeah they will end up together.

They will lead two opposing forces against each other in the Battle for Dawn, which will kill many characters.

But this battle will also be the first time they meet each other, on the battleground, and feel instant attraction.

Jon's Targaryen blood is there in the story to help him defeat Dany's main weapon: Drogon. That is all. No one will give Jon the throne just because he claims to be Rhaegar's legitimate son, just look at Stannis, he is the true king, but no one gives it to him. I think if Jon wants to become a king, he needs to go and take the throne himself. And there is a silver-haired woman standing in his way.

Once he tames and skinchanges into big black dragon, he will prove to whole Westeros who the true king is, probably ending the battle right there and then.

On the other side, I believe Dany's third mount, "the mount to love" is Ghost. I think if Jon and Dany are truly each other's destined halves they need to conquer each other's animal avatars.

That is why I think George included so many mentions of wolf in Dany's chapters, and so many dragon references in Jon's (besides that he is Targ himself).

Eventually, a new Pact of Ice and Fire will be fulfilled, marrying Targaryen Queen to Stark King which will bring a balance to the realm.

But since this is George RR Martin we are talking about, we will not get a happily ever after for these two. Dany will die giving a birth to Jon's child and heir not long after their marriage. She is not barren as evidenced in Dance of Dragons.

And regarding Sansa and Arya, I believe once Dany is gone, they will rule beside Jon as his sister queens, mirroring Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys. But without Starkcest. They will help Jon to rule Westeros as part of new royal house - House Stark - in the new capital and castle on Harrenhal grounds by Isle of Faces where Bran Stark will preside and watch over the realm.

Maybe crackpottish, I know, but there will be no Starkcest in this novel, Sansa and Arya do not need to sleep with Jon to rule beside him.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

If Dany dies in childbirth I will go to George RR Martin's house and I will make him suffer. Because that is bullshit. She had a superhumanly problem-free pregnancy at age 15 while riding a horse every day and banging Drogo every night. Only reason childbirth didn't work out the first time was blood magic--and even with that *she* survived just fine. If she goes from that to suddenly dying in childbirth I'm calling bullshit, and I will personally mail bull's shit to GRRM's address. Often. And maybe also glitter bombs.

[Targaryen Restoration]

If Dany dies in childbirth I will go to George RR Martin's house and I will make him suffer. Because that is bullshit. She had a superhumanly problem-free pregnancy at age 15 while riding a horse every day and banging Drogo every night. Only reason childbirth didn't work out the first time was blood magic--and even with that *she* survived just fine. If she goes from that to suddenly dying in childbirth I'm calling bullshit, and I will personally mail bull's shit to GRRM's address. Often. And maybe also glitter bombs.

Dany is my favorite character. 

[mediterraneo]

I will take a position here.
He killed Ygritte.
He killed Ygritte for his stupid vows and all.
If he ever even looks for more than a couple of seconds to another girl, man, boy, or anything living, I promise I'll personally go there, cut him and feed it to Shagga's goats.
With theese bare hands.

[kimim]

I will take a position here.
He killed Ygritte.
He killed Ygritte for his stupid vows and all.
If he ever even looks for more than a couple of seconds to another girl, man, boy, or anything living, I promise I'll personally go there, cut him and feed it to Shagga's goats.
With theese bare hands.

Ygritte went into that battle knowing that she could die. She was killed, but not by Jon; he was happy to discover that his arrow didn't get her. I guess you can say that had he not rushed back and warned CB, then Ygritte and her people could have taken over easily. That would mean that Jon saves Ygritte, but kills others who trust him, like Sam, Edd, Aemon. 

Jon's risking someone he loves, whatever choice he makes.

[Targaryen Restoration]

I will take a position here.
He killed Ygritte.
He killed Ygritte for his stupid vows and all.
If he ever even looks for more than a couple of seconds to another girl, man, boy, or anything living, I promise I'll personally go there, cut him and feed it to Shagga's goats.
With theese bare hands.

I don't think you have anything to worry about.  The only other woman that will catch his eye is Arya. 

[NorthernXY]

Don't think I've seen a Jon hater before.  I agree that they can't work.  Dany is a person obsessed with her RIGHT, while Jon is a person obsessed with his DUTY. Finding out they're related would mean nothing to him, he wouldn't suddenly care for her as an aunt, he had a family he grew up with.  He won't become a Targaryen in his heart, and she sees his family as traitorous dogs.  They're as opposite as fire and ice.

[Lord Varys]

Don't think I've seen a Jon hater before.  I agree that they can't work.  Dany is a person obsessed with her RIGHT, while Jon is a person obsessed with his DUTY. Finding out they're related would mean nothing to him, he wouldn't suddenly care for her as an aunt, he had a family he grew up with.  He won't become a Targaryen in his heart, and she sees his family as traitorous dogs.  They're as opposite as fire and ice.

Didn't Dany choose duty over right/title/whatever when she first married that idiot Hizdahr zo Loraq and actually tried to sacrifice her personal happiness for her people (as her mother Rhaella had done when she married Aerys and gave up all hope to marry/be with Ser Bonifer Hasty)?

While Jon finally showed his true colors and chose love/family over duty when he decided to march against Winterfell in ADwD.

Just saying.

I think the Dany-Jon match stands since the very beginning, around the time George decided to abandon the Arya-Jon love story angle and the Tyrion-Arya-Jon triangle (which would have been abandoned when it became clear that Theon would destroy Winterfell, and Arya never return home to Winterfell and eventually to the Wall, nor would Tyrion ever go there).

This may now be replaced with a (love?) triangle between Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, the three heads of the dragon. I'm pretty sure helping Dany is not the only thing Tyrion is going to want to do with her...

But whether any of that actually happens depends on whether Dany and/or Jon survive the end. I don't think it will be necessary a love match, but so what? Both Dany and Jon might have multiple lovers/spouses up the point they finally meet, and there is more than enough time for them to die.

In Dany's case this might not even be necessary since I'm inclined to believe she'll become/make herself a female version of Aegon the Conqueror, taking multiple consorts at the same time (preferably the other dragon heads, or the people she thinks are dragon heads). This could also be how Tyrion might end up at Dany's side - a consort she chooses for political reasons/friendship due to the fact that he is her half-brother and a dragonrider.

Since I just finished the Osten Ard series it is very obvious that Dany is Miramele and Simon is so obviously Jon Snow that you cannot even try to doubt it. I think that match really is set in stone.

[purple-eyes]

If Dany dies in childbirth I will go to George RR Martin's house and I will make him suffer. Because that is bullshit. She had a superhumanly problem-free pregnancy at age 15 while riding a horse every day and banging Drogo every night. Only reason childbirth didn't work out the first time was blood magic--and even with that *she* survived just fine. If she goes from that to suddenly dying in childbirth I'm calling bullshit, and I will personally mail bull's shit to GRRM's address. Often. And maybe also glitter bombs.

Why? first one at 14 is fine so the second one years later must be fine?

I think we do not need to count how many women in this book died from their second or third childbirths. Such as Joanna, Minisha, etc.