kimim Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 28 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: HH is very very big. So...... But it is indeed vulnerable to dragon fire. What isn't vulnerable to dragon fire, though? The only region that managed to resist the dragons did so by leaving fortifications and cities, and taking to the wilderness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 1 minute ago, kimim said: What isn't vulnerable to dragon fire, though? The only region that managed to resist the dragons did so by leaving fortifications and cities, and taking to the wilderness. Rock. which is a cave system inside a hill. Visenya admitted that she can not conquer Rock with dragon fire. What is the point for a dragon to burn a hill? That can not penetrate that much. If so, dragon mountain on the DS will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said: I'd give the edge to Riverrun. Storm's End and Casterly Rock might fall after a long siege and a starving and rebellious garrison might open the gates to the enemy, as it happened to Stannis. But with Riverrun, even if some traitor opens the gates, the invading party still faces the additional difficulty of actually reaching the castle. Like, they'd have to build rafts right there or something to be able to cross the water. Actually, Riverrun can be take by assault, but it would require special siege machines to make an amphibian attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Few of the Fingers Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 You are all forgetting the most defensible one in Westeros. It is mobile, it is impregnable, it has proved its worth time and time again. Of course, I am talking about "wherever Stannis happens to be". One does not simply conquer Stannis' surroundings (without him willing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 8 hours ago, purple-eyes said: Rock. which is a cave system inside a hill. Visenya admitted that she can not conquer Rock with dragon fire. What is the point for a dragon to burn a hill? That can not penetrate that much. If so, dragon mountain on the DS will be gone. True. No, they couldn't burn down a rock. It's hard for me to imagine what the place is like, as we haven't been there. The one that's difficult to conquer, as it can't be found, is Greywater Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Aunt Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 17 hours ago, Raisin' Bran said: I think it is important to note that many of the "strong" castles in Westeros could be taken by small strike forces sneaking inside. Theon did it in Winterfell, The Northmen sort of did it in Harrenhal (admittedly with the help of the Brave companions). Storm's End had potential with the cave that Davos used. In the show ( I know its not canon, and not quite like described in the books) Bronn states that he could take the Eyrie with a small force climbing the mountain and not using the mule road. I think similar tactics could be used to take most castles. With that considered, I think the Twins, Casterly Rock, and Riverrun would be harder to take due to some of the natural defenses available (river, mining tunnels). Casterly Rock was presumably conquered by Lann the clever with some sort of sneaking in tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 23 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said: Casterly Rock was presumably conquered by Lann the clever with some sort of sneaking in tactics. That is one of the theories. Of course even if that theory is true, that was thousands of years ago.It is hard to think that Casterly Rock has not changed in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Aunt Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: That is one of the theories. Of course even if that theory is true, that was thousands of years ago.It is hard to think that Casterly Rock has not changed in that time. Point is: any castle can be taken through treachery or by sneaking in if there are not enough guards to meet a small force that is sneaking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just now, Hodor's Aunt said: Point is: any castle can be taken through treachery or by sneaking in if there are not enough guards to meet a small force that is sneaking in. Right but this topic is about which is the hardest. Of course every single castle can be taken by treachery but that was not the question being asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Bastard Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 2 hours ago, kimim said: The one that's difficult to conquer, as it can't be found, is Greywater Watch. This is the correct answer. Harrenhal, Storm's End and Winterfell have all fallen during the course of the Wot5K but not by military might. More like the result of ruses and while being extremely vulnerable by lack of garrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 18 hours ago, Raisin' Bran said: Storm's End had potential with the cave that Davos used. That cave is actually quite useless for an attacking force (magic notwithstanding). It's only navigable during high tide, the water is filled with jagged rocks, there's a metal portcullis at the end, and there are murder holes throughout it. Attackers would need to strike a specific time, bring with them some sort of siege weapon capable of knocking down or blowing through a metal gate, while dodging all the sharp rocks, and watching out for burning oil or whatever the defenders are dropping on them. And every ship that fails is wreckage the others will need to dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 19 hours ago, Raisin' Bran said: I think it is important to note that many of the "strong" castles in Westeros could be taken by small strike forces sneaking inside. Theon did it in Winterfell, The Northmen sort of did it in Harrenhal (admittedly with the help of the Brave companions). Storm's End had potential with the cave that Davos used. In the show ( I know its not canon, and not quite like described in the books) Bronn states that he could take the Eyrie with a small force climbing the mountain and not using the mule road. I think similar tactics could be used to take most castles. With that considered, I think the Twins, Casterly Rock, and Riverrun would be harder to take due to some of the natural defenses available (river, mining tunnels). Winterfell and Harrenhal weren't fully garrisoned at the time, and I think the logic of 'small strike force against large empty-ish castle' would work against any fortification save the Rock. 1) I think we're in agreement that the book-Eyrie would be much harder to take by storm than the show-Eyrie. 2) Show... 15 hours ago, The Mountain That Flies said: In Westeros it's Casterly Rock, and in Essos it's Qarth. Every other fortified complex or city has clear points of vulnerability or can have a siege against it maintained very easily. Neither are true for these two. I agree with you're two ideas, although I'd maintain that Braavos would be nigh-impossible to take by storm (easier to do it by siege maybe). 12 hours ago, redtree said: Casterly Rock, the castle is basically its own town with its width of 6km. But why did Harrenhal get the largest reputation ? Harrenhal is the largest constructed castle in the world (or at least Westeros). Casterly Rock is larger by volume, and probably area, but most of it is still a mountain. I can't help but feel it's cheating to dig out a large hill and call it the largest castle in the world. 8 hours ago, Arrow of the Morning said: Actually, Riverrun can be take by assault, but it would require special siege machines to make an amphibian attack. True, but we are told by Yandel that Riverrun in its current form has seldom been taken, and never by force. 4 hours ago, Octavio Malibaires said: You are all forgetting the most defensible one in Westeros. It is mobile, it is impregnable, it has proved its worth time and time again. Of course, I am talking about "wherever Stannis happens to be". One does not simply conquer Stannis' surroundings (without him willing). *cough, Blackwater, cough* 3 hours ago, kimim said: True. No, they couldn't burn down a rock. It's hard for me to imagine what the place is like, as we haven't been there. The one that's difficult to conquer, as it can't be found, is Greywater Watch. I knew I was forgetting something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Ben Blackwood Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Most of these castles have never been taken by force because no one has ever tried to take them by force till now. A sufficiently large force with siege weapons can storm any castle. So the Casterly Rock or Storm's end can be taken if trebuchets and rams break down the walls and gates. Eyrie in this case IMO will be the hardest as you cannot get siege weapons up that hill road and if I recall correctly there are no trees up there to build siege weapons either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 42 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said: I agree with you're two ideas, although I'd maintain that Braavos would be nigh-impossible to take by storm (easier to do it by siege maybe). Yeah, my thought on Braavos was the city relies so heavily on trade that cutting it off for even a few days would be lethal. That said, they have such strong naval capabilities that would be a very tall order, and as you say storming it would be a nightmare. So I'd put it right behind Qarth on the Essosi ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I have to go with the interior city of Volantis. They are 200 ft high and made out of Valyrian Stone and surround the entire section of the inner city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Every castle can be taken by Ramsay and his 20 good men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtree Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, dariopatke said: Every castle can be taken by Ramsay and his 20 good men. Not Casterly Rock, at 6km wide it's simply too big. Too many gates and watchtowers, more likely his 20 men will be killed before he reached the main gates. It's also a gold mine so more likely it has full garrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 22 hours ago, The Mountain That Flies said: Yeah, my thought on Braavos was the city relies so heavily on trade that cutting it off for even a few days would be lethal. That said, they have such strong naval capabilities that would be a very tall order, and as you say storming it would be a nightmare. So I'd put it right behind Qarth on the Essosi ratings. Indeed; Braavos' navy, it's isolation by land, the Titan, and the rock walls which protect the city to the sea would all make capturing the city by storm a formidable challenge. Any invader would be wiser to blockade the passage under the Titan, then poison the Sweetwater to deprive the city of fresh water. 2 hours ago, dariopatke said: Every castle can be taken by Ramsay and his 20 good men. Please don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not Casterly Rock, at 6km wide it's simply too big. Too many gates and watchtowers, more likely his 20 men will be killed before he reached the main gates. It's also a gold mine so more likely it has full garrison Oh sweet summer child, shirtless Ramsay will find weak spot, hit there, somehow kill everyone of them, flay them and send 5000 dicks in 5000 boxes to KL with text "This turned out to be lovely evening". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtree Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, dariopatke said: Oh sweet summer child, shirtless Ramsay will find weak spot, hit there, somehow kill everyone of them, flay them and send 5000 dicks in 5000 boxes to KL with text "This turned out to be lovely evening". Oh sweet summer child, how do you propose (logically) 20 men killing 5000 in their own base ? This is the novel not the tv show. Even in the tv he didn't kill anyone, just burnt the food storage and horses. And btw, the width is 6.8 miles = 11 km. About the width of San Francisco city. And it's not a flat ground either, it's a hill so he has to climb, consuming more energy Casterly Rock has multiple watchtowers and gates guarded with full garrison, say he clear one of the gates the other would already be alarmed because of the noise or the howling of the dogs. And then he and this magical 20 men would have to run with total distance of 11 km and then kill all the guards again and then run again to another gates and past the watchtowers, barracks and halls and kill many of knights until he actually reached the castle which is at the western tip of the cliff. And i was being kind to assume that he somehow masters the area. Does that sound logical ? And this is the quote from AWOIAF"Casterly Rock has never been taken by storm or siege. No castle in the Seven Kingdoms is larger, richer, or better defended.“ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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