What role will House Dayne play?

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

On 5 February 2016 at 6:38 PM, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

I think that House Dayne, as a whole, have been, are being, and will be very major players in the story, since before RR. After RR, they all but disappear, obscurely and peculiarly, from the eyes of the reader and the characters of the story both. There's a ton of missing info on House Dayne, names, births, deaths, house words, etc. This omission is not at all accidental, I think it's done very purposefully by the author to heighten the effect of it 's, their, revealing, in the final two books.

I completely agree.  If we look at House Targaryen as a parallel, we start the books thinking Dany & Viserys are the last and then it's just Dany.  As we go on, Targs (actual and possible) pop up all over the place - Aemon (RIP), (f)Aegon, Jon, Bloodraven and all manner of other possible secret Targs.  We go from 1 remaining child at the other end of the world, to the serious possibility that House Targ could rule again.

I think GRRM is doing something the same with House Dayne.  We are given enough info to get us interested and make them stick in our minds... We know that their house/bloodline is ancient, most likely back to the GEOTD; that they were set apart by their beauty and heroism; that they were renowned and admired (has anyone ever said anything bad about them?).  But there is so much we don't know or that is based on heresay.  We don't even know how many are left.  So far we have only seen 2 remaining members - Edric & Darkstar.  I know here's Allyria too but we never actually meet her.  We also don't know anything about the 4th Dayne sibling who is Edric's father.  Is he alive or dead? Does he even exist or is Edric's father someone else? Who is Rdric's mother?  So many theories and so much possibility here, especially with GRRMs habit of surprising us!  

There is also their connection to the central mystery of Jon's parentage.  There is a red herring element here with Ashara to throw us off the scent of R+L, but both Arthur and Ashara are still key to the events and mysteries from the Harrenhal tourney to the TOJ.  Who knows what other knowledge (recent and ancient) they have at Starfall.  

And then there's that sword.  It's a step up even from the much-valued Valyrian steel, it is ancient, magical and the only one of its kind. It would seem to be the counterpart to the mythical flaming sword of AA and very much tied into the mythology of the ending of the long night, which could be about to repeat itself.  It can also only be weilded by a worthy Dayne.  Don't try to tell me we're not going to see that sword again!!

I will not believe that the story of House Dayne is just padding or just a red herring.  There are far too many connections and parallels with events of the past which seem about to be repeated.  There is also so much backstory, symbolism and possibility in their stories that would be completely unnecessary for GRRM to develop if it were going nowhere.  Even if they are cut out of the TV version - and we don't know that yet - it was always going to be a much simpler storyline than the books and doesn't mean they won't still be key to the endgame of the books.  

What will their role be? Only the key to defeating the rising tide of magic and restoring balance to Planetos! 

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

3 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Is it possible that Edric Dayne is the "secret son" of somebody important and was left at starfall as part of a baby swap similar to the one that Jon Snow orchestrates at the wall when he sent Aemon Steel-song of with Sam and  Gilly? Do we really know his true age and actual background?

We're told that his father is the older brother of Arthur, Ashara & Allyria, who I'm assuming is dead otherwise he would still be Lord of Starfall instead of Edric.  Very odd that he is never mentioned by name and Edric's mother is never mentioned at all! The info must exist in that big book of lineages in Kingslanding though, so maybe it's just unmentioned as opposed to secret.  Like their sigil and words.

I think he's too young to have been swapped with any of the Targs.  It would be hard to pass off a 15 year old as a 12 year old.  Even harder to pass off an 11 year old as a 7 year old (the age when he became a page for Beric).  

Similarly, he's too young to be son of Ashara or Arthur Dayne (unless they're not dead) or Brandon Stark.  Same for Ned Stark as it seems like he didn't go south again after he came home with Jon.

It is possible looks-wise and age-wise that he's the son of Darkstar who the wiki has as 17-20 years older than Edric.  I don't think he is though.  

I don't buy Baratheon bastard either, due to the Baratheon colouring not being there after we are so emphatically told it always is in Roberts children.

If they were trying to hide Edric or conceal his identity, would they have let him be page for another house?  Compare this to Jon who Ned always kept close and then sent to the Wall, well away from people who would ask any questions. Or (f)Aegon who was taken overseas and kept with a small group of people who were protecting his secret.  

There is definitely something more to be known about him and a swap or identity deception isn't out of the question!

[Hippocras]

I think Edric is not a secret identity. He's just the very young Lord of Starfall. Possibly we will meet him again soon when Obara, Balon and Hotah visit Starfall....if he left the BWB. It is IMO quite probable that he left and when home when Beric died the final time, because he was only there in the first place because he was Beric's squire. After Beric's death he had no reason to stay in the Riverlands. Unless his outlaw status matters, but I don't think so because he was so young and because the Dornish don't care so much that the BWB fought the crown.

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

10 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I completely agree.  If we look at House Targaryen as a parallel, we start the books thinking Dany & Viserys are the last and then it's just Dany.  As we go on, Targs (actual and possible) pop up all over the place - Aemon (RIP), (f)Aegon, Jon, Bloodraven and all manner of other possible secret Targs.  We go from 1 remaining child at the other end of the world, to the serious possibility that House Targ could rule again.

I think GRRM is doing something the same with House Dayne.  We are given enough info to get us interested and make them stick in our minds... We know that their house/bloodline is ancient, most likely back to the GEOTD; that they were set apart by their beauty and heroism; that they were renowned and admired (has anyone ever said anything bad about them?).  But there is so much we don't know or that is based on heresay.  We don't even know how many are left.  So far we have only seen 2 remaining members - Edric & Darkstar.  I know here's Allyria too but we never actually meet her.  We also don't know anything about the 4th Dayne sibling who is Edric's father.  Is he alive or dead? Does he even exist or is Edric's father someone else? Who is Rdric's mother?  So many theories and so much possibility here, especially with GRRMs habit of surprising us!  

There is also their connection to the central mystery of Jon's parentage.  There is a red herring element here with Ashara to throw us off the scent of R+L, but both Arthur and Ashara are still key to the events and mysteries from the Harrenhal tourney to the TOJ.  Who knows what other knowledge (recent and ancient) they have at Starfall.  

And then there's that sword.  It's a step up even from the much-valued Valyrian steel, it is ancient, magical and the only one of its kind. It would seem to be the counterpart to the mythical flaming sword of AA and very much tied into the mythology of the ending of the long night, which could be about to repeat itself.  It can also only be weilded by a worthy Dayne.  Don't try to tell me we're not going to see that sword again!!

I will not believe that the story of House Dayne is just padding or just a red herring.  There are far too many connections and parallels with events of the past which seem about to be repeated.  There is also so much backstory, symbolism and possibility in their stories that would be completely unnecessary for GRRM to develop if it were going nowhere.  Even if they are cut out of the TV version - and we don't know that yet - it was always going to be a much simpler storyline than the books and doesn't mean they won't still be key to the endgame of the books.  

What will their role be? Only the key to defeating the rising tide of magic and restoring balance to Planetos! 

I've had a funny feeling for a while that we've already met Ned Dayne's father and Arthur and Ashara's older brother. From the wiki and the books themselves, that person is only referred to as their "elder" brother. Just so happens there's a character who goes by that moniker, who fought for the Targ's in RR, "broke" at the battle of the Trident, and floated naked to the Quiet Isle where his former self died and a new man was born, like a certain gravedigging novice. That would be Elder Brother, who keeps a shaved head, like Egg, and is described by Brienne as looking more like a warrior than a renowned healer.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

22 minutes ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

I've had a funny feeling for a while that we've already met Ned Dayne's father and Arthur and Ashara's older brother. From the wiki and the books themselves, that person is only referred to as their "elder" brother. Just so happens there's a character who goes by that moniker, who fought for the Targ's in RR, "broke" at the battle of the Trident, and floated naked to the Quiet Isle where his former self died and a new man was born, like a certain gravedigging novice. That would be Elder Brother, who keeps a shaved head, like Egg, and is described by Brienne as looking more like a warrior than a renowned healer.

I love it!  Going to find that and have a re-read!

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

2 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I love it!  Going to find that and have a re-read!

Enjoy. I could've been a little more descriptive, but I'm posting from a cell phone. 

[Rob Storm]

3 hours ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

I've had a funny feeling for a while that we've already met Ned Dayne's father and Arthur and Ashara's older brother. From the wiki and the books themselves, that person is only referred to as their "elder" brother. Just so happens there's a character who goes by that moniker, who fought for the Targ's in RR, "broke" at the battle of the Trident, and floated naked to the Quiet Isle where his former self died and a new man was born, like a certain gravedigging novice. That would be Elder Brother, who keeps a shaved head, like Egg, and is described by Brienne as looking more like a warrior than a renowned healer.

So with this theory are you stating that Ned Dayne was conceived, born and raised in the riverlands/quiet isle?  He is younger than Robb and Jon which means he would have been conceived after the war/Trident.  Only other option I see with this theory is if he has different parents than believed.  

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

25 minutes ago, Rob Storm said:

So with this theory are you stating that Ned Dayne was conceived, born and raised in the riverlands/quiet isle?  He is younger than Robb and Jon which means he would have been conceived after the war/Trident.  Only other option I see with this theory is if he has different parents than believed.  

No, not all. Ned Dayne is Ned Dayne, born at Starfall whenever it's said he did, current Lord, Beric's squire, etc, etc. 

 

His father, the unnamed "elder" brother of a Arthur and Ashara, previous Lord of Starfall, that dissappeared sometime after RR and before the beginning of GOT, I believe is the Elder Brother, who NOW lives on Quiet Isle.

 

No more, no less.

[purple-eyes]

15 minutes ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

No, not all. Ned Dayne is Ned Dayne, born at Starfall whenever it's said he did, current Lord, Beric's squire, etc, etc. 

 

His father, the unnamed "elder" brother of a Arthur and Ashara, previous Lord of Starfall, that dissappeared sometime after RR and before the beginning of GOT, I believe is the Elder Brother, who NOW lives on Quiet Isle.

 

No more, no less.

What? He left his young son and sister and his land and castle to become a septon? 

[Rob Storm]

14 minutes ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

No, not all. Ned Dayne is Ned Dayne, born at Starfall whenever it's said he did, current Lord, Beric's squire, etc, etc. 

 

His father, the unnamed "elder" brother of a Arthur and Ashara, previous Lord of Starfall, that dissappeared sometime after RR and before the beginning of GOT, I believe is the Elder Brother, who NOW lives on Quiet Isle.

 

No more, no less.

I guess I took the "wash up on the quiet isle" portion literally rather than he returned there years later after the Trident and after Ned had been born.  

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

1 minute ago, Rob Storm said:

I guess I took the "wash up on the quiet isle" portion literally rather than he returned there years later after the Trident and after Ned had been born.  

House Dayne did need an heir, desperately.

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

3 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

What? He left his young son and sister and his land and castle to become a septon? 

I presume, not a Septon, but a healer, a highly and quickly elevated one.

[Hippocras]

Elder Brother was the THIRD son, not the eldest. He did not get married, he had nothing to offer in order to do so, and was definitely not the Lord of Starfall.

If he is anyone other than who he says, more likely a Darry than a Dayne IMO.

[Hippocras]

As for house Dayne, I still think there is a possibility that the way they tie in to all of this is Dany: Lemongate, Dany has Ashara's eyes, etc.

[Brianstorm]

Interesting that the kaaba (thought to be a meteor) was said to be white but the sins of those who touched it turned it black. I wonder if this is why they need someone of such virtue to wield Dawn?

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

I don't think it'll necessarily have to be a Dayne who gets Dawn. I think The Dayne's could be protectors of this sword and have only passed it down to people worthy of protecting it. 

I have a feeling The Dayne's know about an ancient prophecy and will only hand the sword to the person leading the fight for  The Dawn. 

Or maybe Jon really does have Dayne blood in him? 

Who knows? But I can't wait to find out more about this house. 

[Kenton Stark]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 4:29 PM, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

I've had a funny feeling for a while that we've already met Ned Dayne's father and Arthur and Ashara's older brother. From the wiki and the books themselves, that person is only referred to as their "elder" brother. Just so happens there's a character who goes by that moniker, who fought for the Targ's in RR, "broke" at the battle of the Trident, and floated naked to the Quiet Isle where his former self died and a new man was born, like a certain gravedigging novice. That would be Elder Brother, who keeps a shaved head, like Egg, and is described by Brienne as looking more like a warrior than a renowned healer.

wow, that's pretty good. Not sure I buy it, but very creative and well done.

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

On February 10, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Hippocras said:

Elder Brother was the THIRD son, not the eldest. He did not get married, he had nothing to offer in order to do so, and was definitely not the Lord of Starfall.

If he is anyone other than who he says, more likely a Darry than a Dayne IMO.

I think that the Elder Brother's testimony contains both truths and lies. Just like a few other instances like Mance's Great Elk and Shadowcat story, the TOJ, the Trident, Dany's childhood, Qhorin's backstory and Benjen's reason for taking the Black and later his swift dissappearence, Rhaegar "abducting and raping" Lyanna, the person that dishonored Ashara at HH and which Stark she actually "turned" to, etc, etc. We don't get a straight story, for me anyway, about any of it, intentionally. We get some truth some lies and only our personal interpretations to decide which is which, nothing very concrete from the text.

[TheWallFrost]

My theory is that Dawn will be the sword Lightbringer of Azor Ahai.  Now this has been said before, but if you consider that there could be a secret Dayne as well as secret Targareyns as most of the Daynes mentioned openly are either dead, too old or too young to be a suitable bearer of the sword, it's possible.  At the Harrenhall tournament, Ashara Dayne was said to be "shamed" by Barriston Selmy.  Since he was secretly in love with her and her brother was the best swordsman in the kingdom, why was there no duel/contest to avenge such "shame?  If the Mad King raped her at the Tournament, both Selmy and Arthur Dayne would have been powerless to do anything about it, so it's likely that this happened.  Now if a child was born of this "shaming".  Who could it be?  I believe it is Daenrys Targaryen.  She already fulfills most of the Azor Ahai requirements, except for Lightbringer.  As a Dayne, she would have similar Valerian features.  If she was the child of Ashara Dayne and the Mad King (A + A = D), she would be able to lay claim to Dawn.  This also means Daenrys is a bastard (remember, she will be betrayed by blood so she cannot take the Iron Throne), but bastards have nearly the same rights as the children of the House in Dorn.  Her prophecy also backs this up.  "Before going North, you must go South".  Dawn is in Skyfall, the Dayne keep in Dorn, the south of Westeros,  She will need the sword before she fights at the Wall.  "To reach the west, you must go east."  This infers that she must visit Dorn first to remember who she is.  Ashara Dayne would have taken the child back to Dorn and Daenerys has memories of this.  "To touch the light, you must pass beneath the shadow."  To become the Lord of Light, she must first accept and know of how she came to be.

Other clues about Daenerys.  Her brother Viserys treated her very badly.  Out of character for a family in which brothers and sisters are known to marry.  In addition, her marriage to Drogon would be equivalent of Queen Victoria marrying a daughter to Geronimo.  Just wouldn't happen.

Queen Rhaella was known for still births and if the initial baby daughter died, there would be a need to keep the idea that there were still Targareyns would need to be staged.  Else, Viserys would have the biggest target in the world on his back to end the line.  In addition, daughters would also be used to insure and form new alliances.  

Another clue is constant advice to her to give up the quest for Iron Throne and go elsewhere.   I believe Selmy, Jorah and others have some idea of what her true heritage is and seek to protect her.

[Schwarze Sonne]

House Dayne will sit back during Dance 2.0 watching Martells and Yronwoods killing each others until they go extinct than take control of Dorne after the dance to fight against the Others with other survivors in WftD 2.0.

I believe every great house except Stark will become extinct at the end of the story.