kimim Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 12 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Stannis is alive according to GRRM and dead on the show The book timeline is unclear. The Pink Letter, Jon's decision to move against Bolton and Jon's assassination could all be happening after the Stannis chapter in Winds in terms of real time. PL says "your false king is dead." If that's true, then Stannis is as dead in the books as he is on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Given the way things are shaping up in Dorne I'd be very surprised if there isn't a twist involving Myrcella at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 So much for the hope that the book is close to being finished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 14 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Stannis isn't around Seylse and Shireen in the books so if it's a twist with Stannis it can't involve Seylse and Shireen i can't really see a good twist that could involve Hizdahr that people would care about. GRRM also said that it would drive us crazy. so the big three have to be Stannis, Mance and Barristan But that situation is not what GRRM describes. The scenario has to be fairly similar to the scenario in the books otherwise its not a new twist anyway. In the books Stannis could meet up with Mel Selyse and Shireen again, and we know someone is going to burn Shireen. If it was about Stannis and the Boltons he would've just said the show has created a completely different scenario, not 1 character has died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 56 minutes ago, kimim said: The book timeline is unclear. The Pink Letter, Jon's decision to move against Bolton and Jon's assassination could all be happening after the Stannis chapter in Winds in terms of real time. PL says "your false king is dead." If that's true, then Stannis is as dead in the books as he is on the show. If the Pink Letter came after Stannis' supposed death that we're not sure really happened and GRRM confirmed that Stannis is alive in the books then Stannis is still alive. The PL is the furthest the timeline goes and the chapter where Stannis is alive again isn't in the books yet and way after Stannis's supposed death. It's also in the sample chapter for TWOW not in a published book. Also this: "Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways." I'm not sure why he'd include Stannis if he's already dead in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unsung Hero Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think these are the most likely options: Stannis Baratheon Perhaps becoming the new Night's King? The Night's King in the show has not appeared whatsoever in the book, so he may even be a purely show construction allowing for Stannis to enter into that territory thematically Shireen Baratheon Melisandre has been eyeballing her a lot lately - I smell a sacrifice to bring Jon Snow back, but maybe it horribly backfires? The Wildlings may react violently if they fear any kind of spread of greyscale... Jeyne Westerling There's a popular theory about a potential body swap based on Jaime Lannister's and Catelyn Tully's descriptions of Jeyne, possibly allowing for a direct heir of the King of the North to resurface, changing the Northern politics up quite a bit Barristan Selmy I personally think Barristan will die tragically in the Battle of Slavers Bay, either by treachery from the pit fighters at his back or in a duel with Victarion. An honorable man like Barristan being betrayed and killed by common pit fighters for vengeance on killing Khrazz would be a pretty gnarly twist... Mance Rayder There's a lot to do with Mance still in the books - I think it'll come to light that he was the one who sent the catspaw after Bran in the first book while he was spying on the Starks, possibly to shake up southern politics, making him just as responsible for the wars south of the wall as Littlefinger Xharo Xharan Daxos (I think he still has a major part to play in the books) His subtle threat to Dany in DWD will come back to haunt her, it is known Lady Stoneheart (technically dead in the show) There's plenty of room for twists regarding her upcoming showdown with Jaime and Brienne Myrcella Baratheon There's a popular theory that the Myrcella who lost her ear wasn't actually Myrcella at all, but a double. Although not a particularly jaw-dropping twist, it would certainly make Aerys Oakheart a much more narratively rich character in retrospect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 46 minutes ago, Ice Turtle said: So much for the hope that the book is close to being finished... Well be implemented this twist a while ago it seems so we should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Either Stannis the Mannnis or Mane Rayder. But I'm placing my bet on Mance in regards of the Pink Letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Unsung Hero said: I think these are the most likely options: Stannis Baratheon Perhaps becoming the new Night's King? The Night's King in the show has not appeared whatsoever in the book, so he may even be a purely show construction allowing for Stannis to enter into that territory thematically Shireen Baratheon Melisandre has been eyeballing her a lot lately - I smell a sacrifice to bring Jon Snow back, but maybe it horribly backfires? The Wildlings may react violently if they fear any kind of spread of greyscale... Jeyne Westerling There's a popular theory about a potential body swap based on Jaime Lannister's and Catelyn Tully's descriptions of Jeyne, possibly allowing for a direct heir of the King of the North to resurface, changing the Northern politics up quite a bit Barristan Selmy I personally think Barristan will die tragically in the Battle of Slavers Bay, either by treachery from the pit fighters at his back or in a duel with Victarion. An honorable man like Barristan being betrayed and killed by common pit fighters for vengeance on killing Khrazz would be a pretty gnarly twist... Mance Rayder There's a lot to do with Mance still in the books - I think it'll come to light that he was the one who sent the catspaw after Bran in the first book while he was spying on the Starks, possibly to shake up southern politics, making him just as responsible for the wars south of the wall as Littlefinger Xharo Xharan Daxos (I think he still has a major part to play in the books) His subtle threat to Dany in DWD will come back to haunt her, it is known Lady Stoneheart (technically dead in the show) There's plenty of room for twists regarding her upcoming showdown with Jaime and Brienne Myrcella Baratheon There's a popular theory that the Myrcella who lost her ear wasn't actually Myrcella at all, but a double. Although not a particularly jaw-dropping twist, it would certainly make Aerys Oakheart a much more narratively rich character in retrospect GRRM has confirmed the Night King in the show is a show construction. it can't be Jeyne Westerling because GRRM doesn't consider Talisa to be Jeyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, The Unsung Hero said: Jeyne Westerling There's a popular theory about a potential body swap based on Jaime Lannister's and Catelyn Tully's descriptions of Jeyne, possibly allowing for a direct heir of the King of the North to resurface, changing the Northern politics up quite a bit The description of the hips has been shown to just be a publishing error. Jeyne being pregnant is theorized due to Riverrun flying the Direwolf long after Robb died, but while Jeyne stayed, and the fact that Jeyne's grandmother was Maggi the Frog. Maggi the Frog could see the future and knew about love potions. Plus her and her family would not be keen on working with the Lannisters. Add that all up and it points to the Westerlings giving a love potion to Robb (who was predicted he would be at their castle by Maggi) and married to Jeyne. Jeyne mother SAYS she was giving moon tea to Jeyne but this is a lie to a Lannister who has them prisoner. Jeyne is pregnant and the Blackfish/ BWB is going to rescue the Westerlings on their way to Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: GRRM has confirmed the Night King in the show is a show construction. it can't be Jeyne Westerling because GRRM doesn't consider Talisa to be Jeyne But she is Robb's wife. Robb's wife is dead on the show but alive in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: GRRM has confirmed the Night King in the show is a show construction. it can't be Jeyne Westerling because GRRM doesn't consider Talisa to be Jeyne Agree. He said the books Night's King =/= show Night King. And on Jeyne, of course, since he's even asked them to rename her since it's a different character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said: The description of the hips has been shown to just be a publishing error. Jeyne being pregnant is theorized due to Riverrun flying the Direwolf long after Robb died, but while Jeyne stayed, and the fact that Jeyne's grandmother was Maggi the Frog. Maggi the Frog could see the future and knew about love potions. Plus her and her family would not be keen on working with the Lannisters. Add that all up and it points to the Westerlings giving a love potion to Robb (who was predicted he would be at their castle by Maggi) and married to Jeyne. Jeyne mother SAYS she was giving moon tea to Jeyne but this is a lie to a Lannister who has them prisoner. Jeyne is pregnant and the Blackfish/ BWB is going to rescue the Westerlings on their way to Casterly Rock. Nope. The timeline doesn't add up. When Jaime sees Jeyne again it's already 6 months since the last time she saw Robb. So she has to already be clearly showing and she doesn't. Plus this would ruin GRRM's set up for competing claims for Winterfell between the Stark kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said: But she is Robb's wife. Robb's wife is dead on the show but alive in the books. She has the same role but she's not the same character. GRRM has made that explicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Nope. The timeline doesn't add up. When Jaime sees Jeyne again it's already 6 months since the last time she saw Robb. So she has to already be clearly showing and she doesn't. Plus this would ruin GRRM's set up for competing claims for Winterfell between the Stark kids. Where does it say that it has been 6 months since the red wedding? And how does adding another claimant ruin a story about competing claimants? (Plus this is just your opinion of what GRRM has in store) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said: Where does it say that it has been 6 months since the red wedding? And how does adding another claimant ruin a story about competing claimants? (Plus this is just your opinion of what GRRM has in store) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview# Here review the timeline. And well I think because Robb's son would be heir under all circumstances. Whereas if Robb dies without issue then it's between his trueborn baby brother, his legitimized bastard brother and his trueborn sister with her own Vale army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview# Here review the timeline. And well I think because Robb's son would be heir under all circumstances. Whereas if Robb dies without issue then it's between his trueborn baby brother, his legitimized bastard brother and his trueborn sister with her own Vale army Well, it wouldn't be the first time that GRRM fudged the timeline, plus that is just an estimation of the dates. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 16 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Jon Snow is dead in the books. And the Hound is alive in the show and the books. Hizdahr but the twist is supposed to drive us crazy and is some super great twist. Hard to imagine a good twist that'll involve him. Seems by how upfront is he is being about it now it's someone that died in the show in season 5 so that leaves Myrcella, Barristan, Shireen, Stannis, Mance and possibly Hizdahr but unlikely 2 hours ago, kimim said: The book timeline is unclear. The Pink Letter, Jon's decision to move against Bolton and Jon's assassination could all be happening after the Stannis chapter in Winds in terms of real time. PL says "your false king is dead." If that's true, then Stannis is as dead in the books as he is on the show. Jon Snow isn't dead. At worst, he may be dying. He was stabbed, and then we lose his POV. Only the next book will will confirm it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: Jon Snow isn't dead. At worst, he may be dying. He was stabbed, and then we lose his POV. Only the next book will will confirm it He's dead. There's no real characters no story impact if he's just wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: He's dead. There's no real characters no story impact if he's just wounded. not true at all. Plenty of things can impact a story without the death of a major POV character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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