Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[Isobel Harper]

2 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I have been theorising that Dragonstone will experience its own Doom, a volcanic eruption.

In ADWD Drogon takes Dany to the lair he has made on a hill in the Dothraki sea. Dany names this place Dragonstone. According to the Wiki, the app (which I don't have) has this hill just east of a city called Vaes Diaf (city of skull). D-I-A-F. Shorthand for die in a fire.

Though that might not be foreshadowing for the Doom, people have burned (and more probably will yet still) at Dragonstone.

However, suppose it's not Dragonstone this Vaes Diaf. The Hill is east of Diaf, which would make Diaf probably King's Landing. Diaf survived the Doom (too far away one would assume), but then the Dothraki come and sacked it.

An earthquake usually comes with a volcanic eruption.  Tyrion had soldiers train with gingerjars filled with green paint until he deemed them ready for wildfire.  This implies that wildfire is such a volatile substance that even dropping it will ignite it. 

If an earthquake (even a minor one) occurs in KL, it would likely ignite the wildfire stashed under the city. 

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, Isobel Harper said:

An earthquake usually comes with a volcanic eruption.  Tyrion had soldiers train with gingerjars filled with green paint until he deemed them ready for wildfire.  This implies that wildfire is such a volatile substance that even dropping it will ignite it. 

If an earthquake (even a minor one) occurs in KL, it would likely ignite the wildfire stashed under the city. 

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, there's a lot of green imagery in some of this stuff. Though it doesn't have to happen all at once. Ground tremors can precede the eruption. So there's seismic activity, earthquakes, wildfire goes boom, big green explosion. Then Dragonstone erupts. I'm stretching it this way for a reason.

Consider if the Blackwater Bay is frozen over or dry, and you're there. KL explodes in the West, then Dragonstone in the East. Also it's during the Long Night, there is no day light, no sun at all.

The destruction of Hardholm sounds similar to the Doom.

Quote

He did. Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. Afterward ashes rained down on haunted forest and Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year. Traders reported finding only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses, blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pocked the great cliff that loomed above the settlement.

It was like the sun rising.

When Tyrion passes Valyria.

Quote

 

Only the brightest stars were visible, all to the west. A dull red glow lit the sky to the northeast, the color of a blood bruise. Tyrion had never seen a bigger moon. Monstrous, swollen, it looked as if it had swallowed the sun and woken with a fever. Its twin, floating on the sea beyond the ship, shimmered red with every wave. "What hour is this?" he asked Moqorro. "That cannot be sunrise unless the east has moved. Why is the sky red?" 

"The sky is always red above Valyria, Hugor Hill."

 

Between the two explosions, the Doom and KL wildfire, I'm trying to get at this.

"When will he be as he was?" Dany demanded.

Quote

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

I need to check the wildfire explosion and tower burning for sun rising/setting imagery.

[chrisdaw]

Meleys is foreshadowing Melisandre. From her description and then the stallion (Stannis) in her jaws.

Quote

 

MELEYS (Princess Rhaenys): The Red Queen, old and cunning, lazy, but fearsome when roused, killed at Rook's Roost with her rider, the Queen Who Never Was.

....

The Red Queen, she was called, for the scarlet scales that covered her. The membranes of her wings were pink, her crest, horns, and claws bright as copper. And on her back, in steel and copper armor that flashed in the sun, rode Rhaenys Targaryen, the Queen Who Never Was.

....

Meleys roared, smoke swirling from her nostrils, a stallion kicking in her jaws as tongues of fire engulfed him.

 

Melisandre is going to go down like a boss in a blaze of glory.

Quote

 

Meleys suffered a score of hits, but the arrows only served to make her angry. She swept down, spitting fire to right and left. Knights burned in their saddles as the hair and hide and harness of their horses went up in flames. Men-at-arms dropped their spears and scattered. Some tried to hide behind their shields, but neither oak nor iron could withstand dragon’s breath. Ser Criston sat on his white horse shouting, “Aim for the rider,” through the smoke and flame. Meleys roared, smoke swirling from her nostrils, a stallion kicking in her jaws as tongues of fire engulfed him.

Then came an answering roar. Two more winged shapes appeared: the king astride Sunfyre the Golden, and his brother Aemond upon Vhagar. Criston Cole had sprung his trap, and Rhaenys had come snatching at the bait. Now the teeth closed round her.

Princess Rhaenys made no attempt to flee. With a glad cry and a crack of her whip, she turned Meleys toward the foe. Against Vhagar alone she might have had some chance, for the Red Queen was old and cunning, and no stranger to battle. Against Vhagar and Sunfyre together, doom was certain. The dragons met violently a thousand feet above the field of battle, as balls of fire burst and blossomed, so bright that men swore later that the sky was full of suns. The crimson jaws of Meleys closed round Sunfyre’s golden neck for a moment, till Vhagar fell upon them from above. All three beasts went spinning toward the ground. They struck so hard that stones fell from the battlements of Rook’s Rest half a league away.

Those closest to the dragons did not live to tell the tale. Those farther off could not see, for the flame and smoke. It was hours before the fires guttered out. But from those ashes, only Vhagar rose unharmed. Meleys was dead, broken by the fall and ripped to pieces upon the ground.

 

Meleys was undone by Sunfyre and Criston Cole, both of these are Jaime parallels. And Vhaegar who I'm not sure on and Aemond and King Aegon II who are both Tyrions. Sunfyre came of this very injured, as did Aegon.

Meleys was ripped apart.

Quote

… but it was the head of the dragon Meleys, drawn through the city on a cart, that awed the crowds of smallfolk into silence.

Her head is drawn through the KL. Pulled apart and displayed publically is the sort of thing that happens to witches.

Then there's this, Ursula Upcliff.

Quote

 

So honeyed was his tongue that he even won the allegiance of Ursula Upcliff, a reputed sorceress who called herself bride of the Merling King.

...

The songs say that Torgold knew no fear and felt no pain. Though bleeding from a score of wounds, he cut a red swathe through Lord Redfort's staunchest warriors, then took his lordship's arm off at the shoulder with a single cut. Nor was he dismayed when the sorceress Ursula Upcliff appeared upon a bloodred horse to curse him. By then he was bare-handed, having left both of his axes buried in a foe's chest, but the singers say he leapt upon the witch's horse, grasped her face between two bloody hands, and tore her head from her shoulders as she screamed for succor.

 

A sorceress on a blood red horse who also bloodily has her head ripped off. I think it's Mel too.

Torgold may represent Lannisters by way of the gold connection. Though his description doesn't really suit Jaime or Tyrion.

Quote

But the seventh attack, led by a fearsome giant of a man named Torgold Tollett, broke through. Torgold the Grim, this man was called, but even his name was a jape, for it is written that he went into battle laughing, naked above the waist, with a bloody seven-pointed star carved across his chest and an axe in each hand.

Maybe an amalgamation of Tyrion on Viserion. I think characters that fight with two weapons are usually symbolic of dragons, two claws. I can't think of anyone that dual wields weapons in the series. Tyrion will be a favourite of the Faith, their servant king, more Sansa's doing than his own but he will come to the crown after the heathen Dany with her red and horse gods, to protect the Faith from Dany coming back.

So I think all up, Jaime + Tyrion on Viserion destroy Mel, but at least one of those three get very injured in the process. And it ends very gruesomely for Mel, particularly her neck.

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Meleys is foreshadowing Melisandre. From her description and then the stallion (Stannis) in her jaws.

Melisandre is going to go down like a boss in a blaze of glory.

Meleys was undone by Sunfyre and Criston Cole, both of these are Jaime parallels. And Vhaegar who I'm not sure on and Aemond and King Aegon II who are both Tyrions. Sunfyre came of this very injured, as did Aegon.

Meleys was ripped apart.

Her head is drawn through the KL. Pulled apart and displayed publically is the sort of thing that happens to witches.

Then there's this, Ursula Upcliff.

A sorceress on a blood red horse who also bloodily has her head ripped off. I think it's Mel too.

Torgold may represent Lannisters by way of the gold connection. Though his description doesn't really suit Jaime or Tyrion.

Maybe an amalgamation of Tyrion on Viserion. I think characters that fight with two weapons are usually symbolic of dragons, two claws. I can't think of anyone that dual wields weapons in the series. Tyrion will be a favourite of the Faith, their servant king, more Sansa's doing than his own but he will come to the crown after the heathen Dany with her red and horse gods, to protect the Faith from Dany coming back.

So I think all up, Jaime + Tyrion on Viserion destroy Mel, but at least one of those three get very injured in the process. And it ends very gruesomely for Mel, particularly her neck.

I like the Meleys-Melisandre connection. I think the bride of the Merling King could foreshadow Sansa's arc, but I don't recall if I've thought that out loud before. 

[Isobel Harper]

10 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

MELEYS (Princess Rhaenys): The Red Queen, old and cunning, lazy, but fearsome when roused, killed at Rook's Roost with her rider, the Queen Who Never Was.

"Lazy" always reminds me of Viserion, who Daenerys calls "a lazy dragon."  I have a suspicion that Viserion might be female as well.

The white dragon lay coiled around a pear tree, his head resting on his tail. When Dany passed his eyes came open, two pools of molten gold. His horns were gold as well, and the scales that ran down his back from head to tail. "You're lazy," she told him, scratching under his jaw.

Pears symbolize fertility.  Head resting on a tail represent continuity.  (An ouroboros is depicted as a snake or dragon eating its own tail.  The "eating" represent death.  Here, Viserion is just resting his/her head, the association with death missing.)

Among the dragons, we have a Red Queen and a Blue Queen.  Perhaps next will be a Yellow/Gold Queen?

[chrisdaw]

Ursula could be Dany. Euron would be the Merling King husband. Blood Red horse representing the gods she brings, the Red R'hllor followers that will come with her from Valyria and the Dothraki. With how Torgold is all about the Seven it would make sense that what's being foreshadowed here is a clash of religions, and so it'd also make sense Ursula's horse is all about religion too.

[chrisdaw]

Quote

So many stars, he thought as he trudged up the slope through pines and firs and ash. Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning. All those he shared with Ygritte, but not some of the others. We look up at the same stars, and see such different things. The King's Crown was the Cradle, to hear her tell it; the Stallion was the Horned Lord; the red wanderer that septons preached was sacred to their Smith up here was called the Thief. And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman, Ygritte insisted. "Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night."

Ice dragon I suppose is himself. Shadowcat is Arya though some may suggest Catelyn. Moonmaid Dany. Don't know Sword of the Morning.

Stallion was the Horned Lord is about Drogo having become Drogon.

The Red Wanderer is Dany as she wandered the red wastes. It being sacred to their Smiths is because Dany's womb is the sacred flame Lightbringer will be tempered in as per the AA story. It's called the thief because Dany will use deception to get pregnant by Jon, 'stealing' him as the wildlings do.

The 'thief' being in the 'moonmaid' refers to Dany using a glamour of Ygritte. The 'thief' is in her. And in the glamour she will seduce Jon to betray his vows. It's the treason for love, as he is her king and she's taking the image of his love so that he may love her, for a night.

[Lost Melnibonean]

34 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Ice dragon I suppose is himself. Shadowcat is Arya though some may suggest Catelyn. Moonmaid Dany. Don't know Sword of the Morning.

Stallion was the Horned Lord is about Drogo having become Drogon.

The Red Wanderer is Dany as she wandered the red wastes. It being sacred to their Smiths is because Dany's womb is the sacred flame Lightbringer will be tempered in as per the AA story. It's called the thief because Dany will use deception to get pregnant by Jon, 'stealing' him as the wildlings do.

The 'thief' being in the 'moonmaid' refers to Dany using a glamour of Ygritte. The 'thief' is in her. And in the glamour she will seduce Jon to betray his vows. It's the treason for love, as he is her king and she's taking the image of his love so that he may love her, for a night.

I don't think this is foreshadowing. I think it'sallusion to our own night sky. The twelve houses of heaven correspond to the zodiac; the seven wanders correspond to the classical planets of antiquity (i.e., the Sun and Moon and the five planets visible to the naked eye, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn), and the red wanderer corresponds to Mars. The Moonmaid most likely corresponds to Virgo since there is a whole bunch of astrology mumbo jumbo about when Mars is in Virgo.

The first mention of an “ice dragon” follows Bran’s realization that the old powers are real. He then asks Osha how to go north, and what he might find. Osha tells him to look for the Ice Dragon, and to chase the blue star in the rider's eye. (It should be noted that after this mention as the blue star in the rider’s eye, it is afterward referred to as the blue star in the dragon’s eye. Since Jon tells us later that the Wildings’s nomenclature for celestial bodies is slightly different than the nomenclature used south of the Wall, this is not necessarily an inconsistency.)

Thus, we learn that the Ice Dragon is a constellation, and that the blue star in the dragon’s eye is a pole star. Currently (more on that in a moment), the north pole star in our sky is Polaris in the constellation Ursa Minor, also known as the Little Dipper. Thus, it appears that the star in the dragon’s eye that points north corresponds to Polaris. But Polaris is more white than blue, and Ursa Minor is a little bear, not a dragon.

However, Ursa Minor is bordered by Draco, which is a dragon, and one of the stars in Draco is Thuban, which is more blue than white.

Now, dig this: The Southern Cross was visible from the British Isles, Canada, Alaska, and Russia 10,000 years ago, and it will be visible from those regions again after another 15,000 years. This is due to the motion of the Earth called axial precession. This is the motion you see in a wobbling top as it starts to slow. The Earth’s axial precession takes about 26,000 years to complete.

Due to this axial precession, the north star 6,000 years ago was Thuban, a blue star in Draco! And while you might not have been able to see Acrux from Scotland 6,000 years ago, you would have been able to see it from England.

[chrisdaw]

On 1 May 2016 at 9:01 AM, chrisdaw said:

Quote

"Oysters, clams, and cockles" were Cat's magic words, and like all good magic words they could take her almost anywhere.

Teleporting? Perhaps related to the alleged underground tunnel network the children used and the door under the wall that needed the words. The door asks who are you? Sam says the NW vow and he comes out the other side of the wall. Perhaps different magic words = different locations on the other side when the door face opens it's mouth.

Following on from this.

Quote

 

At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors twelve feet high. The left-hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony. The look of it reminded her somehow of the heart tree in the godswood at Winterfell. The doors are watching me, she thought. She pushed upon both doors at once with the flat of her gloved hands, but neither one would budge. Locked and barred. "Let me in, you stupid," she said. "I crossed the narrow sea." She made a fist and pounded. "Jaqen told me to come. I have the iron coin." She pulled it from her pouch and held it up. "See? Valar morghulis."

The doors made no reply, except to open.

They opened inward all in silence, with no human hand to move them. Arya took a step forward, and another. The doors closed behind her,

 

Magic words opening doors. Weirwood, like the Black Gate.

I propose the doors of the House of Black and White, as well as the Black Gate, are teleports. And that there are many more like them around the world, including in Westeros, and very likely one in KL. That's how FM get around.

They work by words. To put things simply, go to one of these doors, anywhere, say the right words for a location you wish to travel to, and the door will open and if you step through it you'll end up on the other side a magic door in that location. It has just so happened that the two times we've seen one of these doors used the person went through the doors to the location that the doors exist in anyway.

So, doors with faces on them, or otherwise some kinds of symbols I guess, weirwood and/or ebony the more likely. Or maybe doors with some conspicuous statues guardians or the like.

[chrisdaw]

Quote

 

Tyrion tilted his head to the side and gave the man a dose of his mismatched eyes. "What is your name, master armorer?"

"Salloreon, as it please my lord. If the King's Hand will permit, I should be most honored to forge him a suit of armor suitable to his House and high office." Two of the others sniggered, but Salloreon plunged ahead, heedless. "Plate and scale, I think. The scales gilded bright as the sun, the plate enameled a deep Lannister crimson. I would suggest a demon's head for a helm, crowned with tall golden horns. When you ride into battle, men will shrink away in fear."

A demon's head, Tyrion thought ruefully, now what does that say of me? "Master Salloreon, I plan to fight the rest of my battles from this chair. It's links I need, not demon horns.

 

Not that Tyrion riding Viserion should be doubted at this stage. Scale, horned head, gold the colour of Viserion's horns. Also note the crown reference, Tyrion will be king on Viserion's back. Fighting battles from a chair, his Viserion saddle.

The bolded is very interesting I think. Does it suggest Tyrion is not going to use Euron's dragon horn? (described as a demon horn in the text), but rather he has some sort of link? Or is it the common sort of reverse foreshadowing and the link he will need is the demon horn? Perhaps that's what he steals as per the thieving dwarves in D&E that stole the dragon's egg, Tyrion maybe steals the horn? The twisted little monkey demon steals the horn from Victarion? As he couldn't keep those demon monkeys from getting into shit on his ship? If Tyrion takes Viserion by way of the horn, that's going to really keep A+J=T ambiguous.

[Isobel Harper]

12 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Not that Tyrion riding Viserion should be doubted at this stage. Scale, horned head, gold the colour of Viserion's horns. Also note the crown reference, Tyrion will be king on Viserion's back. Fighting battles from a chair, his Viserion saddle.

The bolded is very interesting I think. Does it suggest Tyrion is not going to use Euron's dragon horn? (described as a demon horn in the text), but rather he has some sort of link? Or is it the common sort of reverse foreshadowing and the link he will need is the demon horn? Perhaps that's what he steals as per the thieving dwarves in D&E that stole the dragon's egg, Tyrion maybe steals the horn? The twisted little monkey demon steals the horn from Victarion? As he couldn't keep those demon monkeys from getting into shit on his ship? If Tyrion takes Viserion by way of the horn, that's going to really keep A+J=T ambiguous.

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs. When she kissed him for the last time, Dany could taste the sweetness of the oil on his lips.

Whoever rides Rhaegal will be king.  Whoever rides Viserion will ultimately continue the Targaryen line.  As for Daenerys, the bride and/or ally of Rhaegal's rider?

[chrisdaw]

I think the black braid is signalling Drogon is going to choke Rhaegal out.

[Joy Hill]

AGOT, Catelyn 6

Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

AGOT, Catelyn 6

Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone

Nice. 

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

On 6/5/2016 at 8:06 AM, chrisdaw said:

Not that Tyrion riding Viserion should be doubted at this stage. Scale, horned head, gold the colour of Viserion's horns. Also note the crown reference, Tyrion will be king on Viserion's back. Fighting battles from a chair, his Viserion saddle.

The bolded is very interesting I think. Does it suggest Tyrion is not going to use Euron's dragon horn? (described as a demon horn in the text), but rather he has some sort of link? Or is it the common sort of reverse foreshadowing and the link he will need is the demon horn? Perhaps that's what he steals as per the thieving dwarves in D&E that stole the dragon's egg, Tyrion maybe steals the horn? The twisted little monkey demon steals the horn from Victarion? As he couldn't keep those demon monkeys from getting into shit on his ship? If Tyrion takes Viserion by way of the horn, that's going to really keep A+J=T ambiguous.

nice catch.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

 

“You must be a lackwit, boy,” said Lem. “We’re outlaws. Lowborn scum, most of us, excepting his lordship. Don’t think it’ll be like Tom’s fool songs neither. You won’t be stealing no kisses from a princess, nor riding in no tourneys in stolen armor. You join us, you’ll end with your neck in a noose, or your head mounted up above some castle gate.”

“It’s no more than they’d do for you,” said Gendry.

 

Arya VII, Storm 39

Poor Gendry...

[chrisdaw]

Quote

"The girl," she said. "A girl in grey on a dying horse. Jon Snow's sister." Who else could it be? She was racing to him for protection, that much Melisandre had seen clearly. "I have seen her in my flames, but only once. We must win the lord commander's trust, and the only way to do that is to save her."

"Me save her, you mean? The Lord o' Bones?" He laughed. "No one ever trusted Rattleshirt but fools. Snow's not that. If his sister needs saving, he'll send his crows. I would."

"He is not you. He made his vows and means to live by them. The Night's Watch takes no part. But you are not Night's Watch. You can do what he cannot."

"If your stiff-necked lord commander will allow it. Did your fires show you where to find this girl?"

"I saw water. Deep and blue and still, with a thin coat of ice just forming on it. It seemed to go on and on forever."

"Long Lake. What else did you see around this girl?"

"Hills. Fields. Trees. A deer, once. Stones. She is staying well away from villages. When she can she rides along the bed of little streams, to throw hunters off her trail."

He frowned. "That will make it difficult. She was coming north, you said. Was the lake to her east or to her west?"

Melisandre closed her eyes, remembering. "West."

"She is not coming up the kingsroad, then. Clever girl. There are fewer watchers on the other side, and more cover. And some hidey-holes I have used myself from time—"

The deer is Gendry and makes it clear this vision really is about Arya.

Grey and later stones, a dying horse.

A dying rider on a dying horse, the pale mare, symbolised the coming of the bloody flux to Meereen.

Quote

Only Princess Nymeria of Ny Sar spoke against him. "This is a war we cannot hope to win," she warned, but the other princes shouted her down and pledged their swords to Garin. Even the warriors of her own Ny Sar were eager to fight, and Nymeria had no choice but to join the great alliance.

Nymeria had no choice but to join Garin.

A dying horse symbolises plague. Grey, stone and Garin symbolise greyscale. Nymeria foreshadows Arya. Arya is going to get greyscale.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Does everyone remember how many fires Daenerys must light, and what the second one is for? We can't discuss the show here, but if you're not afraid of possible show spoilers, follow this link. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Is there any possible foreshadowing of Daario's death? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

It was Bran’s turn to tell a story, so he told them about another Brandon Stark, the one called Brandon the Shipwright, who had sailed off beyond the Sunset Sea.

Bran III, Storm 40

Quote

That’s a Brandon, the tall one with the dreamy face, he was Brandon the Shipwright, because he loved the sea. His tomb is empty. He tried to sail west across the Sunset Sea and was never seen again.

Bran VII, Game 66

Bran's body will not leave the cave of the three-eyed crow.