Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

I forgot what Daenerys' nipples are like... I'm guessing they are not large and dark because she has a light complexion.

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

I saw a lot of people compare Jaime to Daemon Targaryen, the Rogue Prince. Well, there's a description of Daemon that could foreshadow Jaime's life: 

Quote

He was the grandson of a king, the brother of a king, husband to a queen. Two of his sons and three of his grandsons would sit the Iron Throne [...]

That's from the Rogue Prince. Now, we can stretch some things here:

• Assume Aerys+Joanna=Jaime+Cersei and Jaime is the grandson of a king;
• Two of his sons were kings already. His grandsons, we don't know yet.
• He "spoused" Cersei for a long while. So, well...
• Now, the important bit: brother of a king. If all the King Tyrion foreshadowing is true, that's sealed.

[norwaywolf123]

59 minutes ago, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

I saw a lot of people compare Jaime to Daemon Targaryen, the Rogue Prince. Well, there's a description of Daemon that could foreshadow Jaime's life: 

That's from the Rogue Prince. Now, we can stretch some things here:

• Assume Aerys+Joanna=Jaime+Cersei and Jaime is the grandson of a king;
• Two of his sons were kings already. His grandsons, we don't know yet.
• He "spoused" Cersei for a long while. So, well...
• Now, the important bit: brother of a king. If all the King Tyrion foreshadowing is true, that's sealed.

not everything needs to be litteral. Jaime is Tywins son TWOIAF proved that! The Lannisters used to be kings and still rule the westerlands as lord paramounts or lesser kings, so maybe?

[chrisdaw]

Quote

The path divided where the statue of King Daeron the First sat astride his tall stone horse, his sword lifted toward Dorne. A seagull was perched on the Young Dragon’s head, and two more on the blade. Sam took the left fork, which ran beside the river. At the Weeping Dock, he watched two acolytes help an old man into a boat for the short voyage to the Bloody Isle. A young mother climbed in after him, a babe not much older than Gilly’s squalling in her arms. Beneath the dock, some cook’s boys waded in the shallows, gathering frogs. A stream of pink- cheeked novices hurried by him toward the septry.

Here's how I see this one.

Young Dragon is Jon of course. The statue, it pointing to Dorne, tips off the paragraph is foreshadowing Jon coming South. It's his conquest.

The division of the path is the Trident.

I don't know who/what the stone horse is, but I do think it's something, maybe Greyscale.

Seagulls are I think either the armies or wolves. His army, Arya's and a third probably with Rickon in it, two in front, him coming behind. Or, and I think more likely, the gulls are Nymeria, Shaggy Dog and the one on his head for Ghost.

Sam takes the left fork which runs beside the river. This is the most important bit. Where the path forked, where he could have gone right or left, Robb crossed at the twins, Robb went right (from his POV anyway). It was a mistake. Jon is going to go left. He's going to come down the middle, like Daeron did. Straight, like his pointed sword.

I don't know if the two acolytes or weeping dock have particular meaning. An old man, a mother and a baby hop on the boat. A representation of those who can not fight. The elderly, the young and women (well they can and many will but most are not going to be of use fighting). I think this foreshadows an attempt of evacuation in the North, by sea.

Bloody Isle is their destination, now I don't think this is about the evacuation. I think it splinters here. When Jon comes south and turns left at the twins and thus works his way down the Green Fork, he will eventually come to the Ruby Ford, and he'll have to cross it, fight his way over. However, we've basically seen this path flanked twice int he series. Once by Sandor and Arya on that ferry (I assume) upriver. The other is Brienne going through the QI. And that's what the Bloody Isle is for, 'Bloody' being Sandor's term and the Quiet Isle being his current hiding spot. It will be important to him coming south but that needs be another post.

Some cook boys wading in the shallows gathering frogs. This is pretty simple, Reed and his crannogmen are coming with Jon. Unfortunately, them being cook boys might suggest the crannogmen or Reed are going to get toasted. Tyrion/Viserion most like, befouling the Isle of Faces.

Have no theory yet for what a stream of pink-cheek novices hurrying him toward the Septry. Maybe I should see if Sandor's scar is noted as being pink flesh, then it'd be another nod to him taking Jon to the QI.

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

5 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

not everything needs to be litteral. Jaime is Tywins son TWOIAF proved that! The Lannisters used to be kings and still rule the westerlands as lord paramounts or lesser kings, so maybe?

"Assume"

And yeah, it doesn't need to be 100% literal. Jaime was, sort of, the son of a king. So, that maybe counts. Hey, if the Cersei wife counts...

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Here's how I see this one.

Young Dragon is Jon of course. The statue, it pointing to Dorne, tips off the paragraph is foreshadowing Jon coming South. It's his conquest.

The division of the path is the Trident.

I don't know who/what the stone horse is, but I do think it's something, maybe Greyscale.

Seagulls are I think either the armies or wolves. His army, Arya's and a third probably with Rickon in it, two in front, him coming behind. Or, and I think more likely, the gulls are Nymeria, Shaggy Dog and the one on his head for Ghost.

Sam takes the left fork which runs beside the river. This is the most important bit. Where the path forked, where he could have gone right or left, Robb went right (from his POV anyway). It was a mistake. Jon is going to go left. He's going to come down the middle, like Daeron did. Straight, like his pointed sword.

I don't know if the two acolytes or weeping dock have particular meaning. An old man, a mother and a baby hop on the boat. A representation of those who can not fight. The elderly, the young and women (well they can and many will but most are not going to be of use fighting). I think this foreshadows an attempt of evacuation in the North, by sea.

Bloody Isle is their destination, now I don't think this is about the evacuation. I think it splinters here. When Jon comes south and turns left at the twins and thus works his way down the Green Fork, he will eventually come to the Ruby Ford, and he'll have to cross it, fight his way over. However, we've basically seen this path flanked twice int he series. Once by Sandor and Arya on that ferry (I assume) upriver. The other is Brienne going through the QI. And that's what the Bloody Isle is for, 'Bloody' being Sandor's term and the Quiet Isle being his current hiding spot. It will be important to him coming south but that needs be another post.

Some cook boys wading in the shallows gathering frogs. This is pretty simple, Reed and his crannogmen are coming with Jon. Unfortunately, them being cook boys might suggest the crannogmen or Reed are going to get toasted. Tyrion/Viserion most like, befouling the Isle of Faces.

Have no theory yet for what a stream of pink-cheek novices hurrying him toward the Septry.

I think the old man is the captain of the Myraham out of Oldtown, the young mother is the captain's daughter, and the squalling babe is Theon's bastard. 

[chrisdaw]

Here's the answer to many a question, many questions, one answer.

Robb crossed at the Twins and came down the west. Robb did not follow the Trident because he feared being stuck on the wrong side unable to cross the Ruby Ford. He sent Roose as a feign down along the Green Fork. Jon will not cross at the twins, that was a mistake, one which he will not repeat as the Young Dragon didn't repeat mistakes of the old war, foreshadowing below.

Quote

The campaign showed great promise as Daeron went over and revised the mistakes that were made in the First Dornish War.

 He himself, leading his own army, will go straight down the middle, this will put him in the same position as Roose was. The position is described I believe in a conversation Arya overhears at HH or by Tyrion to Cersei, or maybe both. It boils down to Roose being stuck on the other side, without the manpower to cross because the defenders at HH could defend the Ruby Ford. Jon will not fail, he will get past, he will not let a river stop him like it did his brother, as foreshadowed in this little passage courtesy of Sandor.

Quote

"He's not the man his brother was either. Robert never let a little thing like a river stop him.

So the question is, how is Jon going to win past the Ruby Ford?

 

Quote

Even a dog gets tired of being kicked. If this Young Wolf has the wits the gods gave a toad, he'll make me a lordling and beg me to enter his service. He needs me, though he may not know it yet. Maybe I'll even kill Gregor for him, he'd like that."

Simple foreshadowing, trade Jon in for the Young Wolf. Jon will have Sandor. He needs him, though he may not know it.

The question here is, why does Jon need Sandor?

 

Quote

"My lord is wise," Thoros told the others. "Brothers, a trial by battle is a holy thing. You heard me ask R'hllor to take a hand, and you saw his fiery finger snap Lord Beric's sword, just as he was about to make an end of it. The Lord of Light is not yet done with Joffrey's Hound, it would seem."

The question is, why did the LOL save the Hound, what does he need Sandor for?

 

As everyone is probably aware the QI is downstream from the Ruby Ford. They've found six of Rhaegar's rubies that have washed down onto their Isle. Seven being the number of their gods, they are waiting for their seventh.

How will the QI get their seventh Ruby?

 

The answer is Sandor is going to lead Jon around the Ruby Ford, crossing the Trident by going through the QI and then the ferry. Probably just a small force, Jon included, a covert force to take HH and open up the Ford.

Quote

Brienne followed, taking care to keep close to the line of prints left by the dog, the donkey, and the holy man.

Follow the dog to the QI.

Alternatively, or as well as, someone particular in Jon's army/party may be injured or otherwise in danger, and Sandor will take them to the Elder Brother who will heal them. Dany or Arya with a complicated labor perhaps?

Quote

"Those women who do visit come to us sick or hurt, or heavy with child. The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the masters could not cure, and many a woman too."

And maybe that's what the woman with the babe is foreshadowing on the trip to the Bloody Isle.

Quote

At the Weeping Dock, he watched two acolytes help an old man into a boat for the short voyage to the Bloody Isle. A young mother climbed in after him, a babe not much older than Gilly’s squalling in her arms.

 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Asha's marriage by proxy while she was thousands miles away shows that the First Men may accept marriage by proxy when the bride is not present.  If an Ironborn priest can oversee a ceremony where a goat stands in for the bride, how about a marriage in front of a weirwood tree with multiple witnesses with an unrelated girl standing in for the bride, who happens to be in Braavos at the time?

If Ramsay, Roose, and Walda end up dead, the witnesses present attest to the marriage and Arya does not contest it, the Dreadfort belongs to Arya.

[Pixnik]

26 minutes ago, Byrnard Sandors said:

Asha's marriage by proxy while she was thousands miles away shows that the First Men may accept marriage by proxy when the bride is not present.  If an Ironborn priest can oversee a ceremony where a goat stands in for the bride, how about a marriage in front of a weirwood tree with multiple witnesses with an unrelated girl standing in for the bride, who happens to be in Braavos at the time?

If Ramsay, Roose, and Walda end up dead, the witnesses present attest to the marriage and Arya does not contest it, the Dreadfort belongs to Arya.

I've wondered if Arya is legally married by proxy to Ramsay. 

[norwaywolf123]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Here's the answer to many a question, many questions, one answer.

Robb crossed at the Twins and came down the west. Robb did not follow the Trident because he feared being stuck on the wrong side unable to cross the Ruby Ford. He sent Roose as a feign down along the Green Fork. Jon will not cross at the twins, that was a mistake, one which he will not repeat as the Young Dragon didn't repeat mistakes of the old war, foreshadowing below.

 He himself, leading his own army, will go straight down the middle, this will put him in the same position as Roose was. The position is described I believe in a conversation Arya overhears at HH or by Tyrion to Cersei, or maybe both. It boils down to Roose being stuck on the other side, without the manpower to cross because the defenders at HH could defend the Ruby Ford. Jon will not fail, he will get past, he will not let a river stop him like it did his brother, as foreshadowed in this little passage courtesy of Sandor.

So the question is, how is Jon going to win past the Ruby Ford?

 

Simple foreshadowing, trade Jon in for the Young Wolf. Jon will have Sandor. He needs him, though he may not know it.

The question here is, why does Jon need Sandor?

 

The question is, why did the LOL save the Hound, what does he need Sandor for?

 

As everyone is probably aware the QI is downstream from the Ruby Ford. They've found six of Rhaegar's rubies that have washed down onto their Isle. Seven being the number of their gods, they are waiting for their seventh.

How will the QI get their seventh Ruby?

 

The answer is Sandor is going to lead Jon around the Ruby Ford, crossing the Trident by going through the QI and then the ferry. Probably just a small force, Jon included, a covert force to take HH and open up the Ford.

Follow the dog to the QI.

Alternatively, or as well as, someone particular in Jon's army/party may be injured or otherwise in danger, and Sandor will take them to the Elder Brother who will heal them. Dany or Arya with a complicated labor perhaps?

And maybe that's what the woman with the babe is foreshadowing on the trip to the Bloody Isle.

 

so how do you see Jon die?

Will he marry? or have kids?

[chrisdaw]

50 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

so how do you see Jon die?

Will he marry? or have kids?

I don't know and I'm not aware of any good foreshadowing for these answers. Dany will have a child as per MMD, so Jon has to be a candidate for father there. But I lean towards Euron being the blue lipped ice penis father of Dany's child. On a simple gut guess, no Jon won't father a child. I believe he is proper dead, and really I doubt the resurrected Jon will even be capable of having children. As I think he's coming back an undead character, I think he will die again, for good, on the basis that I don't think we are going to end up with any undead characters lingering around in regular society at the end of the series. If he does live past the WFTD, I think he will walk off north of the mapped world never to be heard from again. I think he dies though, if not in glorious combat with the Others then maybe a sacrifice, a Nissa Nissa. Maybe he will marry, Dany or Val, if he needs to to consolidate their support behind him for his army with which to march south, but I don't think so.

[norwaywolf123]

1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't know and I'm not aware of any good foreshadowing for these answers. Dany will have a child as per MMD, so Jon has to be a candidate for father there. But I lean towards Euron being the blue lipped ice penis father of Dany's child. On a simple gut guess, no Jon won't father a child. I believe he is proper dead, and really I doubt the resurrected Jon will even be capable of having children. As I think he's coming back an undead character, I think he will die again, for good, on the basis that I don't think we are going to end up with any undead characters lingering around in regular society at the end of the series. If he does live past the WFTD, I think he will walk off north of the mapped world never to be heard from again. I think he dies though, if not in glorious combat with the Others then maybe a sacrifice, a Nissa Nissa. Maybe he will marry, Dany or Val, if he needs to to consolidate their support behind him for his army with which to march south, but I don't think so.

I also think/fear that Dany might marry Euron or Victarion. But if so do you think that it will be a girl or a boy? If it is a boy many would probably be hesitant to follow him as he is a Greyjoy, and if it is a girl there will be wars fought over her for control of the IRONTHRONE. 

Im not sure who will father danys child but i think she will have a girl, who she may name Visenya. I also think that Tommen will survive or a impostor pretending to be Tommen will marry this Danys child and reign as king and Queen. The regions that were conqored by Aegon by force was Riverlands, crownladns, westerlands, reach, ironisles, stormlands and maybe vale. So i believe that these will be part of the Ironthrone. THe north and Dorne and possibly the Vale will be independant.

Mirria Maz Durs propecy said that when Daenerys have a living child she will return to Drogo, so thats why i think she will die in childbirth. What do yoy think?

Is there any foreshadowing Tommen might live or is this just speculation on my part?!

 

[chrisdaw]

I agree, if Dany has a child by Euron there's the heir to the Iron Islands. Jon will settle Asha on Sea Dragon Point, and Theon who will rule the Iron Islands and support Jon is, almost certainly, incapable of fathering a child. Tentatively that's how I think it's all going to play out.

I think Tommen is very dead, gold is his crown and gold will be his shroud.

I don't interpret MMD's words as Dany dying and thus returning to Drogo. I think it means Drogon will return to her. She gets tossed out of KL without Drogon as Drogon is stuck in the pit. Ends up in the north, hooks up with Jon, then has to come south to get drogon back to fight the others. She has a baby, all those epic things happen, then reunites with Drogon.

The way Sunfyre returned to Aegon, the way GRRM went out of the way to make a point out of it, I think is foreshadowing for this. I think Drogon gets loose and is lost to the known world (maybe not Bran though). In reality he does what dragons seem to do, goes to Dragonstone. Dragonstone erupts Valyria style, which looks like the sun setting in the East (dunno what rising in the West is), the seismic activity causes the Eyrie and Giant's Lance to sway and fall, mountains blowing in the wind. And Drogon who is just chilling in Dragonstone wakes and GTFO of there. Dragons waking from stone. And he returns to Dany.

[norwaywolf123]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I agree, if Dany has a child by Euron there's the heir to the Iron Islands. Jon will settle Asha on Sea Dragon Point, and Theon who will rule the Iron Islands and support Jon is, almost certainly, incapable of fathering a child. Tentatively that's how I think it's all going to play out.

Maybe the Ironborn will lose the Iron Isles? A Westermen invasion force might take it and thralls might revolt against the ironborn? Haiti style revolt?

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I think Tommen is very dead, gold is his crown and gold will be his shroud.

I dont think so, it is too easy

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't interpret MMD's words as Dany dying and thus returning to Drogo. I think it means Drogon will return to her. She gets tossed out of KL without Drogon as Drogon is stuck in the pit. Ends up in the north, hooks up with Jon, then has to come south to get drogon back to fight the others. She has a baby, all those epic things happen, then reunites with Drogon.

Why do you think Jon will be the father? Jon paralells the young dragon, who died before he ever married or fathered a child.

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The way Sunfyre returned to Aegon, the way GRRM went out of the way to make a point out of it, I think is foreshadowing for this. I think Drogon gets loose and is lost to the known world (maybe not Bran though). In reality he does what dragons seem to do, goes to Dragonstone. Dragonstone erupts Valyria style, which looks like the sun setting in the East (dunno what rising in the West is), the seismic activity causes the Eyrie and Giant's Lance to sway and fall, mountains blowing in the wind. And Drogon who is just chilling in Dragonstone wakes and GTFO of there. Dragons waking from stone. And he returns to Dany.

hmmm

[Lost Melnibonean]

I was responding to a not-so-small question in the Small Questions thread, and came across this bit...

in The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11, The Reader tells Asha...

Quote

“When last the salt kings and the rock kings met in kingsmoot, Urron of Orkmont let his axemen loose among them, and Nagga's ribs turned red with gore. House Greyiron ruled unchosen for a thousand years from that dark day, until the Andals came.”

So, it seems to be a foreshadowing of Euron’s purge following the kingsmoot in The Drowned Man, Feast 19. .  

In The Drowned Man, Feast 19 we get this description...

Quote

The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop one of Nagga's ribs...

The seagull has been associated with the sea god of Irish mythology, Lir, and seagulls, like ravens, have been depicted has messengers between the real and mystical worlds. Here's what Aeron tells us about Nagga...

Quote

On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth.

. . .

The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death,

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys, or causing her death. (Or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

[norwaywolf123]

 

29 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys, or causing her death. (Or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

Or she dies in childbirth with eurons child? Hopefully not tho!

[norwaywolf123]

On 21.4.2016 at 4:03 AM, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

"Assume"

And yeah, it doesn't need to be 100% literal. Jaime was, sort of, the son of a king. So, that maybe counts. Hey, if the Cersei wife counts...

Some said that it was Tywin who ruled the realm not Aerys. Ilyn Payne lost his tongue for saying so! So Tywin was king in all but name i would think!

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

5 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Some said that it was Tywin who ruled the realm not Aerys. Ilyn Payne lost his tongue for saying so! So Tywin was king in all but name i would think!

Jaime is, after all, a "kind" of Daemon:

• Daemon married a queen; Jaime beds one, but doesn't marry her;
• Daemon is the grandson of a King, and brother to another; Jaime is the son of a "king", and a possible brother to another;
• Daemon and Jaime both had two sons as kings, but Daemon's were legitimate, and Jaime's are bastards. 
• We don't know about Jaime even having grandkids, so...

[chrisdaw]

11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys, or causing her death. (Or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

Oooh I think I know what this is, and it's exciting. Nagga = a combo of Dany and Drogon. I don't think Euron slays Dany/Drogon. I think he turns Drogon to stone, his innards. Turning his dragonsfire to shadowflame.

[norwaywolf123]

11 hours ago, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

Jaime is, after all, a "kind" of Daemon:

• Daemon married a queen; Jaime beds one, but doesn't marry her;
• Daemon is the grandson of a King, and brother to another; Jaime is the son of a "king", and a possible brother to another;
• Daemon and Jaime both had two sons as kings, but Daemon's were legitimate, and Jaime's are bastards. 
• We don't know about Jaime even having grandkids, so...

so your saying jaime is the anti daemon? !