Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[chrisdaw]

Timing is a problem, and a lot of this foreshadowing is early series and may've come before he scrapped the five year gap, and so plans may have changed. Still, if Dany has to give birth, and it's a normal sort of birth, well that's nine months. I don't know how young he'd be willing to go with Arya, at a guess 13 minimum.

[norwaywolf123]

5 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Timing is a problem, and a lot of this foreshadowing is early series and may've come before he scrapped the five year gap, and so plans may have changed. Still, if Dany has to give birth, and it's a normal sort of birth, well that's nine months. I don't know how young he'd be willing to go with Arya, at a guess 13 minimum.

12

[Lord Asher Forrester]

There are a lot of known irony foreshadowing:

Jaime says he would preffer to have a clean and good death to being alive as as a cripple, than later he becomes one and continues his life.

Meister Luwin says to Bran that the others does not exist anymore, and the same goes for giants and children of the forest, and is obiously mistaken.

 

Having that in mind i started another reread looking for clues like these... Then, something caught my attention, it was Jon arguing with Benjen about him joining the NW: Jon is very angry when he says that he will NEVER father a bastard.

Could this mean that in fact Jon will father a snow (or other bastard nickname) child, or even more than one? 

It's not a lot, i know! And i know too that not everything everyone says will have those ironical effects, but the emphasis in this very phrase, coming from the growing angry that Jon shows on this conversation wich culminates in this final sentence is at least suspicious and made me feel like it was a important sentence somehow.

If someone have another quote that might indicate that please bring it here.

[chrisdaw]

On ‎8‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 1:44 PM, Isobel Harper said:

I think Gendry's role remains with the BwB more than anything, not becoming a KG, but then again who knows.  It's an interesting scenario you propose.  It parallels nicely with Black Aly, etc.  I also see a bit of a parallel with Criston Cole and Rhaenyra.

You're going about it backwards, Wenda is white to represent the KG, albeit she's foreshadowing Arya but that's why there's this white association in the first place. Wenda is a little side character created associated white to suit the froeshadowing, things are not made white to line with Wenda.

Quote

It was well after dark when Devan came down to Black Betha, leading a pure snow white palfrey.

Snow white to brought to Black Betha. Snow white for the KG. A palfrey, a riding horse. Black Betha, Arya. Palfrey is a common theme I believe, they're representing possible Arya matches and/or are associated in another way.

Dunk trades his Palfrey 'Sweetfoot', and gets in return silver stags (was it to buy gear to remain a knight? Essentially trading his palfrey sweetfoot for knighthood, as I surmise Gendry is going to 'trade' Arya for KG vows.). Dunk KG, Arya was nick-named 'underfoot', the stags are Gendry.

Arya rides a palfrey named Craven, she says of it,

Quote

She was a good enough horse, but Arya could not love a craven.

As we know, Gendry is no craven. But I fear her ultimate match will be ...

Rohanne gifts Dunk a palfrey when she basically tries to root him. Dunk refuses her, the underlying theme there is class, Rohanne wouldn't marry him because he's too lowborn, but she's up for a tumble in stables, and Dunk resents the whole thing. The whole class thing is an issue for Gendry with Arya, he turns into a knobhead when he finds out she's highborn. This one is named Rain and I'll take a punt based on that and some of the water language used in Black Betha + White Hart that Arya and Gendry are going to do it outdoors in the rain.

I'm pretty confident there will be more examples of association and foreshadowing of Arya and Gendry where there are palfreys.

Moving on, in addition to the white hart, the Gendry character parallel stems from Borros Baratheon, the Baratheon who can't read and has a weak left. Another Boros (albeit with only the one r) is a current KG.

Gendry is The Bull, there's two other bulls in the story. One is a Aquan (don't know the meaning in this name yet), a god with a temple in Braavos as seen through an Arya POV, to whom people sacrifice a pure white calf on the thrirteenth day and offer the blood to beggars. White again, and the sacrifice on the 13th is probably foreshadowing Arya's age when she 'sacrifices' her maidenhood to Gendry, and the offering of blood a reference either to her having hit puberty and so her moonblood, or the bleeding associated with losing her maidenhood.

The other bull is The White Bull, legendary Kingsguard. And doesn't this bloke sound as stubborn as Gendry?

Quote

 

The Kingsguard do not flee.

...

You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.

 

Now to delve a bit deeper.

Brienne's fight with the Brave Companion remnants foreshadows a trial of seven, when KG turn on KG, as explained in this thread.

In Brave Companion fight, Gendry saves Brienne from ugly fat bastard Biter when he jumps her from behind.

Quote

"He's dead. Gendry shoved a spearpoint through the back of his neck.

Before that however, he'd done something very similar for another maiden.

Quote

The Bull shouted, "Behind you," and Arya spun. Hot Pie was on his knees, his fist closing around a big jagged rock.

Third time's a charm. Boros Blount, as associated up thread, the fat, ugly, royal taste tester will make three of a kind with Biter and Hot Pie.

I tentatively had Gendry as a possibility in the trial, but I should have had him firm in there. Brienne is looking to save Sansa when Gendry saves her too, adding to the trial association. He might kill Boros, probably saving Brienne in the process, but what he's definitely going to do, after Sansa's champions defeat Cersei's and Blount is killed, is take his KG position, and that's why there's the Boros/Borros name association with Gendry's parallel.

On ‎8‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 1:44 PM, Isobel Harper said:

Another term for "wraith" is "ghost."  A sceptre is (per online dictionary) "an ornamented staff carried by rulers on ceremonial occasions as a symbol of sovereignty."

Yes, Wraith is Jon and a sceptre is generally a queen's item, Sceptre represents queenhood. So ...

Quote

Sceptre had lost most her paras, and Faithful had been rammed and was starting to list. He took Black Betha between them, and struck a glancing blow at Queen Cerise's ornate carved-and-gilded pleasure barge, laden with soldiers instead of sweetmeats now.

The match Jon is going to make Arya will be to the heir to the IT, it will make her queen. So when Black Betha (Arya), goes between them (blows by them, ignores them) Sceptre (queenhood) and Wraith (Jon) to hit the pleasure barge (love, sex), it's foreshadowing Arya ignoring Jon and the match he's made that will make her queen, to sleep with Gendry. BUT ... it's only a 'glancing blow', this is just a secret affair, likely a one night deal, just ...

Quote

For those few instants, Black Betha and White Hart were the calm eye in the midst of the storm.

a few instants.

Quote

and the great trebuchets behind the Mud Gate were throwing boulders. One the size of an ox crashed down between Black Betha and Wraith, rocking both ships and soaking every man on deck.

Gendry (the ox) comes between Black Betha (Arya) and Wraith (Jon) rocking every man on deck (screwing with Jon's marriage match for her which will have been made to ensure peace and calm in the realm). Arya is going to refuse the match Jon has made her, because she loves Gendry, but eventually she relents as explained earlier, the Black Aly - Hour of the Wolf scenario.

 

I also believe Lady Hornwood's situation and the scene of her coming before Bran foreshadows this little scenario too. Hornwood's sigil is a bull moose (maybe also who to give the Stormlands to when Stannis dies) Probably before hand, as it's when Jon (TKITN, leading on the ground, but taking his cues from Bran) and Bran (the old gods, the architect of the plan to save the realm.), are pondering to work out where they need to marry Arya. Much can probably made from all the talk of her possible matches, but I'm not going to go into that here.

Quote

"Still," Maester Luwin , "it must be considered. Lady Donella is past her fertile years, as she said herself. If not the bastard, who?"

Who to marry Arya to will indeed be question. The Bastard could be foreshadowing Gendry or Jon himself here, but the important thing is it's a question, and it will need answering.

Quote

Ser Rodrik tugged at his whiskers. "In such cases, her liege lord must find her a suitable match."

They need to find her the suitable match.

Like Lady Hornwood herself, Arya will have an idea of who she wants to marry.

Quote

 

"You will have other suitors, my lady. We shall try and find you a prospect more to your taste."

"Perhaps you need not look very far, ser."

 

Lady Hornwood gives Rodrik the none too subtle hint. But ...

Quote

"Why can't you marry her?" Bran asked. "You said she was comely, and Beth would have a mother"

Note the Beth association, as with Black Betha.

Quote

"A kindly thought, my prince, but I am only a knight, and too old.

Arya will love Gendry, and during the Hour of the Wolf Jon will have the power to release him from the KG, and that might be what he wants so that the child isn't a bastard. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not about refusing to name himself the father of the child that Jon has the shits with Gendry about, but that Gendry refuses to disavow himself of the KG and marry Arya. That would just be an excuse though, Gendry's whole issue here is he feels he's too low-born for Arya, out of her league, 'only a knight'. Anyway, the straight foreshadowing here is Arya wants Gendry as Lady Hornwood wants Rodrik, but the issues are Gendry is too old and only a knight as is Rodrik.

Quote

"It may come down to practicalities," said Maester Luwin. "Which lord he most needs to court. The riverlands are pat of his realm, he may wish to cement the alliance by wedding Lady Hornwood to one of the lords of the Trident. A Blackwood, perhaps, or a Frey -"

Practicality, cementing alliances for the larger realm are the order of the day.

In the end they don't actually make a decision on Lady Hornwood, just sort of let it slide, to dire and tragic consequences. It's a complete balls up, a failure of leadership. This isn't what will happen with Arya, in Jon GRRM is making his new Aegon the Conquerer, the near perfect leader. Jon isn't going to fuck this or anything else up.

Jon is foreshadowed by Young Dragon Daeron, the below is taken from the Wiki cos I'm lazy and have to manually search text not in the main series.

Quote

The campaign showed great promise as Daeron went over and revised the mistakes that were made in the First Dornish War.

When Jon comes South, he's not making the same mistakes Robb made. Pertinent here, because one of those mistakes was letting Cat treat with Walder Frey and selling off Arya to the piddly Freys. Jon will not be having any of that shit, he will fuck the Freys up, and he's playing a longer, larger game, he's not wasting Arya on the Freys or any other little bannerman. Jon will be KITN, Arya is a princess, her hand is worth a king's or prince's.

Daeron succeeded in his conquest but it was all for naught as it didn't hold. Again I can't find it because it's not in the main text but I believe it's explicitly stated that his mistake was not securing his conquest with marriages. Anyway, that this was the mistake is made plain by Dorne having been brought into the realm by marriage later in the piece.

Jon will not be making Daeron's mistake. Arya marries the heir to the IT, sealing the pact. Then, he can play the Torren Stark. Arya in line to the IT, Rickon to sit WF, a pact with the IT and their dragons with which to fight the Others, after the Hour of the Wolf, there's no more need for a KITN, Jon has everything he needs. So he kneels to the IT, the KITN is no more, and all the realm becomes one. He leaves, back to the Wall if it still stands, or otherwise North, to fight the Others.

[norwaywolf123]

3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

You're going about it backwards, Wenda is white to represent the KG, albeit she's foreshadowing Arya but that's why there's this white association in the first place. Wenda is a little side character created associated white to suit the froeshadowing, things are not made white to line with Wenda.

Snow white to brought to Black Betha. Snow white for the KG. A palfrey, a riding horse. Black Betha, Arya. Palfrey is a common theme I believe, they're representing possible Arya matches and/or are associated in another way.

Dunk trades his Palfrey 'Sweetfoot', and gets in return silver stags (was it to buy gear to remain a knight? Essentially trading his palfrey sweetfoot for knighthood, as I surmise Gendry is going to 'trade' Arya for KG vows.). Dunk KG, Arya was nick-named 'underfoot', the stags are Gendry.

Arya rides a palfrey named Craven, she says of it,

As we know, Gendry is no craven. But I fear her ultimate match will be ...

Rohanne gifts Dunk a palfrey when she basically tries to root him. Dunk refuses her, the underlying theme there is class, Rohanne wouldn't marry him because he's too lowborn, but she's up for a tumble in stables, and Dunk resents the whole thing. The whole class thing is an issue for Gendry with Arya, he turns into a knobhead when he finds out she's highborn. This one is named Rain and I'll take a punt based on that and some of the water language used in Black Betha + White Hart that Arya and Gendry are going to do it outdoors in the rain.

I'm pretty confident there will be more examples of association and foreshadowing of Arya and Gendry where there are palfreys.

Moving on, in addition to the white hart, the Gendry character parallel stems from Borros Baratheon, the Baratheon who can't read and has a weak left. Another Boros (albeit with only the one r) is a current KG.

Gendry is The Bull, there's two other bulls in the story. One is a Aquan (don't know the meaning in this name yet), a god with a temple in Braavos as seen through an Arya POV, to whom people sacrifice a pure white calf on the thrirteenth day and offer the blood to beggars. White again, and the sacrifice on the 13th is probably foreshadowing Arya's age when she 'sacrifices' her maidenhood to Gendry, and the offering of blood a reference either to her having hit puberty and so her moonblood, or the bleeding associated with losing her maidenhood.

The other bull is The White Bull, legendary Kingsguard. And doesn't this bloke sound as stubborn as Gendry?

Now to delve a bit deeper.

Brienne's fight with the Brave Companion remnants foreshadows a trial of seven, when KG turn on KG, as explained in this thread.

In Brave Companion fight, Gendry saves Brienne from ugly fat bastard Biter when he jumps her from behind.

Before that however, he'd done something very similar for another maiden.

Third time's a charm. Boros Blount, as associated up thread, the fat, ugly, royal taste tester will make three of a kind with Biter and Hot Pie.

I tentatively had Gendry as a possibility in the trial, but I should have had him firm in there. Brienne is looking to save Sansa when Gendry saves her too, adding to the trial association. He might kill Boros, probably saving Brienne in the process, but what he's definitely going to do, after Sansa's champions defeat Cersei's and Blount is killed, is take his KG position, and that's why there's the Boros/Borros name association with Gendry's parallel.

Yes, Wraith is Jon and a sceptre is generally a queen's item, Sceptre represents queenhood. So ...

The match Jon is going to make Arya will be to the heir to the IT, it will make her queen. So when Black Betha (Arya), goes between them (blows by them, ignores them) Sceptre (queenhood) and Wraith (Jon) to hit the pleasure barge (love, sex), it's foreshadowing Arya ignoring Jon and the match he's made that will make her queen, to sleep with Gendry. BUT ... it's only a 'glancing blow', this is just a secret affair, likely a one night deal, just ...

a few instants.

Gendry (the ox) comes between Black Betha (Arya) and Wraith (Jon) rocking every man on deck (screwing with Jon's marriage match for her which will have been made to ensure peace and calm in the realm). Arya is going to refuse the match Jon has made her, because she loves Gendry, but eventually she relents as explained earlier, the Black Aly - Hour of the Wolf scenario.

 

I also believe Lady Hornwood's situation and the scene of her coming before Bran foreshadows this little scenario too. Hornwood's sigil is a bull moose (maybe also who to give the Stormlands to when Stannis dies) Probably before hand, as it's when Jon (TKITN, leading on the ground, but taking his cues from Bran) and Bran (the old gods, the architect of the plan to save the realm.), are pondering to work out where they need to marry Arya. Much can probably made from all the talk of her possible matches, but I'm not going to go into that here.

Who to marry Arya to will indeed be question. The Bastard could be foreshadowing Gendry or Jon himself here, but the important thing is it's a question, and it will need answering.

They need to find her the suitable match.

Like Lady Hornwood herself, Arya will have an idea of who she wants to marry.

Lady Hornwood gives Rodrik the none too subtle hint. But ...

Note the Beth association, as with Black Betha.

Arya will love Gendry, and during the Hour of the Wolf Jon will have the power to release him from the KG, and that might be what he wants so that the child isn't a bastard. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not about refusing to name himself the father of the child that Jon has the shits with Gendry about, but that Gendry refuses to disavow himself of the KG and marry Arya. That would just be an excuse though, Gendry's whole issue here is he feels he's too low-born for Arya, out of her league, 'only a knight'. Anyway, the straight foreshadowing here is Arya wants Gendry as Lady Hornwood wants Rodrik, but the issues are Gendry is too old and only a knight as is Rodrik.

Practicality, cementing alliances for the larger realm are the order of the day.

In the end they don't actually make a decision on Lady Hornwood, just sort of let it slide, to dire and tragic consequences. It's a complete balls up, a failure of leadership. This isn't what will happen with Arya, in Jon GRRM is making his new Aegon the Conquerer, the near perfect leader. Jon isn't going to fuck this or anything else up.

Jon is foreshadowed by Young Dragon Daeron, the below is taken from the Wiki cos I'm lazy and have to manually search text not in the main series.

When Jon comes South, he's not making the same mistakes Robb made. Pertinent here, because one of those mistakes was letting Cat treat with Walder Frey and selling off Arya to the piddly Freys. Jon will not be having any of that shit, he will fuck the Freys up, and he's playing a longer, larger game, he's not wasting Arya on the Freys or any other little bannerman. Jon will be KITN, Arya is a princess, her hand is worth a king's or prince's.

Daeron succeeded in his conquest but it was all for naught as it didn't hold. Again I can't find it because it's not in the main text but I believe it's explicitly stated that his mistake was not securing his conquest with marriages. Anyway, that this was the mistake is made plain by Dorne having been brought into the realm by marriage later in the piece.

Jon will not be making Daeron's mistake. Arya marries the heir to the IT, sealing the pact. Then, he can play the Torren Stark. Arya in line to the IT, Rickon to sit WF, a pact with the IT and their dragons with which to fight the Others, after the Hour of the Wolf, there's no more need for a KITN, Jon has everything he needs. So he kneels to the IT, the KITN is no more, and all the realm becomes one. He leaves, back to the Wall if it still stands, or otherwise North, to fight the Others.

Who will be the king Arya married?

- Tommen

- fAegon

- fAegon's son

- Dany's son

[norwaywolf123]

3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

You're going about it backwards, Wenda is white to represent the KG, albeit she's foreshadowing Arya but that's why there's this white association in the first place. Wenda is a little side character created associated white to suit the froeshadowing, things are not made white to line with Wenda.

Snow white to brought to Black Betha. Snow white for the KG. A palfrey, a riding horse. Black Betha, Arya. Palfrey is a common theme I believe, they're representing possible Arya matches and/or are associated in another way.

Dunk trades his Palfrey 'Sweetfoot', and gets in return silver stags (was it to buy gear to remain a knight? Essentially trading his palfrey sweetfoot for knighthood, as I surmise Gendry is going to 'trade' Arya for KG vows.). Dunk KG, Arya was nick-named 'underfoot', the stags are Gendry.

Arya rides a palfrey named Craven, she says of it,

As we know, Gendry is no craven. But I fear her ultimate match will be ...

Rohanne gifts Dunk a palfrey when she basically tries to root him. Dunk refuses her, the underlying theme there is class, Rohanne wouldn't marry him because he's too lowborn, but she's up for a tumble in stables, and Dunk resents the whole thing. The whole class thing is an issue for Gendry with Arya, he turns into a knobhead when he finds out she's highborn. This one is named Rain and I'll take a punt based on that and some of the water language used in Black Betha + White Hart that Arya and Gendry are going to do it outdoors in the rain.

I'm pretty confident there will be more examples of association and foreshadowing of Arya and Gendry where there are palfreys.

Moving on, in addition to the white hart, the Gendry character parallel stems from Borros Baratheon, the Baratheon who can't read and has a weak left. Another Boros (albeit with only the one r) is a current KG.

Gendry is The Bull, there's two other bulls in the story. One is a Aquan (don't know the meaning in this name yet), a god with a temple in Braavos as seen through an Arya POV, to whom people sacrifice a pure white calf on the thrirteenth day and offer the blood to beggars. White again, and the sacrifice on the 13th is probably foreshadowing Arya's age when she 'sacrifices' her maidenhood to Gendry, and the offering of blood a reference either to her having hit puberty and so her moonblood, or the bleeding associated with losing her maidenhood.

The other bull is The White Bull, legendary Kingsguard. And doesn't this bloke sound as stubborn as Gendry?

Now to delve a bit deeper.

Brienne's fight with the Brave Companion remnants foreshadows a trial of seven, when KG turn on KG, as explained in this thread.

In Brave Companion fight, Gendry saves Brienne from ugly fat bastard Biter when he jumps her from behind.

Before that however, he'd done something very similar for another maiden.

Third time's a charm. Boros Blount, as associated up thread, the fat, ugly, royal taste tester will make three of a kind with Biter and Hot Pie.

I tentatively had Gendry as a possibility in the trial, but I should have had him firm in there. Brienne is looking to save Sansa when Gendry saves her too, adding to the trial association. He might kill Boros, probably saving Brienne in the process, but what he's definitely going to do, after Sansa's champions defeat Cersei's and Blount is killed, is take his KG position, and that's why there's the Boros/Borros name association with Gendry's parallel.

Yes, Wraith is Jon and a sceptre is generally a queen's item, Sceptre represents queenhood. So ...

The match Jon is going to make Arya will be to the heir to the IT, it will make her queen. So when Black Betha (Arya), goes between them (blows by them, ignores them) Sceptre (queenhood) and Wraith (Jon) to hit the pleasure barge (love, sex), it's foreshadowing Arya ignoring Jon and the match he's made that will make her queen, to sleep with Gendry. BUT ... it's only a 'glancing blow', this is just a secret affair, likely a one night deal, just ...

a few instants.

Gendry (the ox) comes between Black Betha (Arya) and Wraith (Jon) rocking every man on deck (screwing with Jon's marriage match for her which will have been made to ensure peace and calm in the realm). Arya is going to refuse the match Jon has made her, because she loves Gendry, but eventually she relents as explained earlier, the Black Aly - Hour of the Wolf scenario.

 

I also believe Lady Hornwood's situation and the scene of her coming before Bran foreshadows this little scenario too. Hornwood's sigil is a bull moose (maybe also who to give the Stormlands to when Stannis dies) Probably before hand, as it's when Jon (TKITN, leading on the ground, but taking his cues from Bran) and Bran (the old gods, the architect of the plan to save the realm.), are pondering to work out where they need to marry Arya. Much can probably made from all the talk of her possible matches, but I'm not going to go into that here.

Who to marry Arya to will indeed be question. The Bastard could be foreshadowing Gendry or Jon himself here, but the important thing is it's a question, and it will need answering.

They need to find her the suitable match.

Like Lady Hornwood herself, Arya will have an idea of who she wants to marry.

Lady Hornwood gives Rodrik the none too subtle hint. But ...

Note the Beth association, as with Black Betha.

Arya will love Gendry, and during the Hour of the Wolf Jon will have the power to release him from the KG, and that might be what he wants so that the child isn't a bastard. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not about refusing to name himself the father of the child that Jon has the shits with Gendry about, but that Gendry refuses to disavow himself of the KG and marry Arya. That would just be an excuse though, Gendry's whole issue here is he feels he's too low-born for Arya, out of her league, 'only a knight'. Anyway, the straight foreshadowing here is Arya wants Gendry as Lady Hornwood wants Rodrik, but the issues are Gendry is too old and only a knight as is Rodrik.

Practicality, cementing alliances for the larger realm are the order of the day.

In the end they don't actually make a decision on Lady Hornwood, just sort of let it slide, to dire and tragic consequences. It's a complete balls up, a failure of leadership. This isn't what will happen with Arya, in Jon GRRM is making his new Aegon the Conquerer, the near perfect leader. Jon isn't going to fuck this or anything else up.

Jon is foreshadowed by Young Dragon Daeron, the below is taken from the Wiki cos I'm lazy and have to manually search text not in the main series.

When Jon comes South, he's not making the same mistakes Robb made. Pertinent here, because one of those mistakes was letting Cat treat with Walder Frey and selling off Arya to the piddly Freys. Jon will not be having any of that shit, he will fuck the Freys up, and he's playing a longer, larger game, he's not wasting Arya on the Freys or any other little bannerman. Jon will be KITN, Arya is a princess, her hand is worth a king's or prince's.

Daeron succeeded in his conquest but it was all for naught as it didn't hold. Again I can't find it because it's not in the main text but I believe it's explicitly stated that his mistake was not securing his conquest with marriages. Anyway, that this was the mistake is made plain by Dorne having been brought into the realm by marriage later in the piece.

Jon will not be making Daeron's mistake. Arya marries the heir to the IT, sealing the pact. Then, he can play the Torren Stark. Arya in line to the IT, Rickon to sit WF, a pact with the IT and their dragons with which to fight the Others, after the Hour of the Wolf, there's no more need for a KITN, Jon has everything he needs. So he kneels to the IT, the KITN is no more, and all the realm becomes one. He leaves, back to the Wall if it still stands, or otherwise North, to fight the Others.

Who do you think will be the new Daemon Targaryen? I think Jaime will.

- DaemonT was popular in king's landing since he spent time with the smallfolk/ If it comes out why Jaime killed the mad king i think he will be popular with the smallfolk.

[chrisdaw]

I agree that Jaime will be a hero to the smallfolk, Dany will trial him for murdering Aerys, he'll tell the truth, the crowd when they hear it (with some help from Arya and Sansa) who will already hate Dany will rally against the mad queen to save the hero who saved them from the Mad king. But I don't think he's Daemon. There's so much content for Daemon I don't think it likely there's only one character foreshadowing in all his story, but the overwhelming amount of it I think is Arya. Look at his travels, dark sister, the foreshadowing in his fight with Aemond I have on the first page, his hanging out with the smallfolk, GRRM liked Daemon enough to do the side story, as he likes writing about Arya in Braavos, very rogue like.

He was defeated by Criston Cole, as there's foreshadowing of Jaime fighting/defeating Arya or Nymeria. How Daemon's dragon tore out Vhagar's throat and then died seems to echo Nymeria pulling Lady Stoneheart out of the trident. The rocky relationship with his elder brother for Arya's and Sansa's.

His elder brother said Daemon would settle after becoming a father, I'm proposing Arya is going to have a child and Jon is going to convince her to become Arya Stark again and stop being the faceless man rogue, as per the frozen fingers foreshadowing among other things.

Him personally being the one to place the crown on Rhanyra's head speaks to Jaime (kingmaker), but I think Arya is going to have a lot to do with crowning Jon KITN and probably will give him the crown and maybe do the crowning herself as per that mercy chapter foreshadowing (getting the crown from the privy, privy = dead, the KITN crown is with Stoneheart).

Robert Arryn will be heir to the IT, Arya will marry him. I'm working on the foreshadowing on that one, but generally Alyn names = Sweetrobert, look at who Alyn Velaryon loved but who he married.

[norwaywolf123]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I agree that Jaime will be a hero to the smallfolk, Dany will trial him for murdering Aerys, he'll tell the truth, the crowd when they hear it (with some help from Arya and Sansa) who will already hate Dany will rally against the mad queen to save the hero who saved them from the Mad king. But I don't think he's Daemon. There's so much content for Daemon I don't think it likely there's only one character foreshadowing in all his story, but the overwhelming amount of it I think is Arya. Look at his travels, dark sister, the foreshadowing in his fight with Aemond I have on the first page, his hanging out with the smallfolk, GRRM liked Daemon enough to do the side story, as he likes writing about Arya in Braavos, very rogue like.

He was defeated by Criston Cole, as there's foreshadowing of Jaime fighting/defeating Arya or Nymeria. How Daemon's dragon tore out Vhagar's throat and then died seems to echo Nymeria pulling Lady Stoneheart out of the trident. The rocky relationship with his elder brother for Arya's and Sansa's.

His elder brother said Daemon would settle after becoming a father, I'm proposing Arya is going to have a child and Jon is going to convince her to become Arya Stark again and stop being the faceless man rogue, as per the frozen fingers foreshadowing among other things.

Him personally being the one to place the crown on Rhanyra's head speaks to Jaime (kingmaker), but I think Arya is going to have a lot to do with crowning Jon KITN and probably will give him the crown and maybe do the crowning herself as per that mercy chapter foreshadowing (getting the crown from the privy, privy = dead, the KITN crown is with Stoneheart).

Robert Arryn will be heir to the IT, Arya will marry him. I'm working on the foreshadowing on that one, but generally Alyn names = Sweetrobert, look at who Alyn Velaryon loved but who he married.

1. Were will Robert Arryn get his claim from?

 

I think that Barristan will be the Kingmaker, He has some realtionship to her as her councelor, Barry will crown fAegon king. Daenerys will marry Jaime/Daemon and take king's landing without much resistance. But Rhanerya/Dany will not be as popular as Jaime/Daemon. 

"Maybe Jaime will be her betrayal? Betraying her family by marrying the man who killed the last Targaryen king!"

[Isobel Harper]

17 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The match Jon is going to make Arya will be to the heir to the IT, it will make her queen. So when Black Betha (Arya), goes between them (blows by them, ignores them) Sceptre (queenhood) and Wraith (Jon) to hit the pleasure barge (love, sex), it's foreshadowing Arya ignoring Jon and the match he's made that will make her queen, to sleep with Gendry. BUT ... it's only a 'glancing blow', this is just a secret affair, likely a one night deal, just ...

Black Betha passes between Sceptre and Faithful, not Sceptre and Wraith.  Just a nitpick, which doesn't really change the idea of your theory.

17 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Daeron succeeded in his conquest but it was all for naught as it didn't hold. Again I can't find it because it's not in the main text but I believe it's explicitly stated that his mistake was not securing his conquest with marriages. Anyway, that this was the mistake is made plain by Dorne having been brought into the realm by marriage later in the piece.

Jon will not be making Daeron's mistake. Arya marries the heir to the IT, sealing the pact. Then, he can play the Torren Stark. Arya in line to the IT, Rickon to sit WF, a pact with the IT and their dragons with which to fight the Others, after the Hour of the Wolf, there's no more need for a KITN, Jon has everything he needs. So he kneels to the IT, the KITN is no more, and all the realm becomes one. He leaves, back to the Wall if it still stands, or otherwise North, to fight the Others.

You don't state it, but I assume you mean Aegon?

Why don't you start a new thread, analyzing Davos III?  Even though I don't share all of your ideas, you seem to be onto something interesting.  Just to add, your posts miss some other tidbits that I find might be important.  For example, Lady Marya.  The chapter begins with Black Betha, Wraith, and Lady Marya riding together.  Here is the first paragraph of the chapter: 

Blackwater Bay was rough and choppy, whitecaps everywhere. Black Betha rode the flood tide, her sail cracking and snapping at each shift of wind. Wraith and Lady Marya sailed beside her, no more than twenty yards between their hulls. His sons could keep a line. Davos took pride in that.

Wraith is with, essentially, two women, i.e. Ghost/Jon with his sisters.  Marya is very similar to Arya, although I don't know why/how there would be two Arya references here.  (Yes, I believe that when the Hour of the Wolf 2.0 occurs, Sansa will be allied with her family.)

Wooden wings had sprouted from the Wraith and Lady Marya as well. The three galleys kept pace, their blades churning the water. "Slow cruise," Davos called. Lord Velaryon's silver-hulled Pride of Driftmark had moved into her position to port [parallel to, to the left] of Wraith, and Bold Laughter was coming up fast, but Harridan was only now getting her oars into the water and Seahorse was still struggling to bring down her mast.

The Velaryons will play a role in this battle as well, siding with the Starks.  Remember that Jon noted seahorses amongst the sigils during Stannis' attack on the wildling camp.  Aurane Waters dromonds (if this occurs near the sea) may play a role as well.

Let's not forget this Patchface prophecy, which is often theorized to foreshadow a military alliance. 

Patchface jumped up. "I will lead it!" His bells rang merrily. "We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

Perhaps Velaryon and Manderly will both play a significant role.

[chrisdaw]

I don't state who she marries for the same reason I'm not inclined to make a thread. Sweetrobin will be Tyrion's and Sansa's heir and most everything leads back to them sitting the IT, and so threads always end up back there. I made a thread about the foreshadowing of Jon coming south and it ended up there within a page or two. And I've made the case for king Tyrion and queen Sansa enough times to know no amount of foreshadowing is going to convince people, as though characters being torn between family, duty and personal desire is something foreign to the series, I'm going to have to wait for TWOW and maybe people will see the path then.

I simply don't know what the other ships represent and foreshadow, I haven't looked into them yet, that's why there's nothing on them. Marya I thought might be like the other personality of Arya, there's Arya Stark and the FM no-one, but I haven't explored that. The language about Davos' sons is conspicuous too, and is likely foreshadowing major players, another thing to look into.

On ‎8‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 6:56 PM, Lord Asher said:

There are a lot of known irony foreshadowing:

Jaime says he would preffer to have a clean and good death to being alive as as a cripple, than later he becomes one and continues his life.

Meister Luwin says to Bran that the others does not exist anymore, and the same goes for giants and children of the forest, and is obiously mistaken.

 

Having that in mind i started another reread looking for clues like these... Then, something caught my attention, it was Jon arguing with Benjen about him joining the NW: Jon is very angry when he says that he will NEVER father a bastard.

Could this mean that in fact Jon will father a snow (or other bastard nickname) child, or even more than one? 

It's not a lot, i know! And i know too that not everything everyone says will have those ironical effects, but the emphasis in this very phrase, coming from the growing angry that Jon shows on this conversation wich culminates in this final sentence is at least suspicious and made me feel like it was a important sentence somehow.

If someone have another quote that might indicate that please bring it here.

Jaime thinking the maesters are not like to confuse him with Aemon the dragonknight, when he's already halfway there, and saying Lancel isn't like to be mistaken for Baelor the Blessed when Lancel is transforming into Baelor both mentally and physically in front of his eyes. Two sets of cousins.

I got a thought on Jon fathering a bastard, the same way Eddard 'fathered' a bastard ... a bastard belonging to a dearly beloved sister and in mortal danger because it's a great threat to the realm.

[chrisdaw]

Some King Tyrion foreshadowing I haven't posted, particularly relating to his death.

I had previously guessed Tyrion will take a gold dragon on a black for his personal standard in this primitive post.

I'm not sure if it was out at that stage (the Wiki seems to credit it with being a TWOIAF info predating my guess) but I wasn't aware that a gold dragon on black was Aegon II's standard. We don't often get personal standards, when we do it's because they mean something, and when there's something peculiar about them and the texts make a song and dance about it, they really mean something. A happy coincidence, Aegon II is the king who sat the IT when Cregan marched south on it.

I'm not entirely convinced it will be a dragon Tyrion takes as his sigil, though if it is it will ofcourse be because Viserion is his mount. But it might still be a golden lion he takes instead of the dragon. It will be gold though, and it will be on black unless Sansa has takes her own sigil. It's the foreshadowing of the gold eyed black bitch that is stared down by Ghost under the table.

Aegon II is a Tyrion parallel. His mount Sunfyre is a Jaime parallel. Criston Cole (Jaime) crowned him. But I'm not going to go too far into the foreshadowing here, just something particular.

Aegon suffered grievous wounds from a dragon battle with Baela on Moondancer. Baela and Moondancer are Arya, this is as per the battle at the gods eye foreshadowing on page one. Injured he eventually ends up in KL, king. And then, with Cregan's arrival imminent ...
 

Quote

 

advised Aegon to take the black. The king refused, however, and planned to give orders to have his young nephew's ear removed as warning to Aegon the Younger's supporters. He climbed into his litter to be carried to his apartments, and was given a cup of wine on the way.

When his escort arrived with the litter and lifted the curtain, they found the king dead with blood on his lips.

 

Next up came the Hour of the Wolf where Cregan tries to get to the bottom of who poisoned him. The circumstances of his death ring pretty similar to this.

Quote

“...How would you like to die, Tyrion son of Tywin?"
"In my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my cock, at the age of eighty," he replied.”

GRRM could hardly put a maiden in Aegon II's litter with him.

Another part Tyrion parallel is Aenys. Again I won't go deep into the parallel but here's a few snippets from the wiki.
 

Quote

 

But Aenys hungered too much for approval, and hesitated over decisions for fear of disappointing one side or another.

...

Young girls doted on him.

...

He was considered weak at birth and early childhood, but once he bonded with his dragon, Quicksilver, he rapidly became stronger and more confident.

 

Aenys collapsed and died, seemingly of natural causes, though it was suggested it was Visenya's doing, which would mean poison.

I think in ASOS when Tyrion is injured and healing he is scared of Cersei poisoning him, he refuses milk of the poppy from the maester and demands wine.

[Ser Gareth]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 10:59 AM, norwaywolf123 said:

Who will be the king Arya married?

- Tommen

- fAegon

- fAegon's son

- Dany's son

Jon

[norwaywolf123]

11 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Jon

He is everything already!? He will more likely be lord Strak of winterfell than off kingslanding

[Ser Gareth]

2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

He is everything already!? He will more likely be lord Strak of winterfell than off kingslanding

GRRM has confirmed the original ending in his mind from 1991 is the same as the one now (that said he has confirmed a lot of things in the past that didn't come to fruition).  We know from what he sent his publishers that Jon & Arya were going to fall for one another.  There is also a fair bit of foreshadowing of it in the current books too.  We also know the ending is going to be bittersweet.

I don't think Arya will survive the series personally (the foreshadowing of when spring comes she will be there with a needle still in her hand) but I wouldn't be surprised if Jon is crowned King, Arya Queen and then both die in the final battle against The Others.

I also think there is a chance that at the end of the series the Seven Kingdoms split back into just that.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I suggested in the last thread, and in other threads that Nymeria will kill Tyrion, ripping his arm off, and I just stubble across this little nugget...

Quote

"And when the Faceless Men come to kill me..."

--Tyrion to Jaime, Tyrion XI, Storm 77

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I suggested in the last thread, and in other threads that Nymeria will kill Tyrion, ripping his arm off, and I just stubble across this little nugget...

--Tyrion to Jaime, Tyrion XI, Storm 77

Hah! That is awesome. I love those nuggets. I can't tell you how many times I almost drove into a tree when I hear something "new" upon relistens in the car and get all excited.

[Lost Melnibonean]

31 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hah! That is awesome. I love those nuggets. I can't tell you how many times I almost drove into a tree when I hear something "new" upon relistens in the car and get all excited.

At least you're  listening when your driving. 

[Isobel Harper]

44 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hah! That is awesome. I love those nuggets. I can't tell you how many times I almost drove into a tree when I hear something "new" upon relistens in the car and get all excited.

Oooh!  This is a great idea.  (It takes me a lot of time to drive to work.)

How do you listen to it?  Do they sell the audiobooks on CDs (if so, I'm screwed - my car's CD player is broken), or do you have it uploaded on your phone?

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Oooh!  This is a great idea.  (It takes me a lot of time to drive to work.)

How do you listen to it?  Do they sell the audiobooks on CDs (if so, I'm screwed - my car's CD player is broken), or do you have it uploaded on your phone?

Always happy to share this info.

I upload them onto my old iphone, now ipod, from Audible. http://www.audible.com/search/ref=a_hp_tseft?advsearchKeywords=a+song+of+ice+and+fire&filterby=field-keywords&sprefixRefmarker=nb_sb_ss_i_0_6&sprefix=A+song

I do a lot of artwork at my in-home studio and drive my kid around a lot so it ends up that the books are on pretty much all the time at different points throughout the day. Sometimes it's just background noise, sometimes I forget to work because I get so sucked in to the story again. For instance about two weeks ago when I came upon the Jon chapter when he has his Ghost dream at the fist and then he finds Ghost hurt by the eagle.

Roy Dotrice narrates this series like he did with the World book and I swear to all the gods, he could read a noodle package and I would be enthralled. His husky female voice is brilliant. His voice for Arya and Dany are a little leprechaunish, but great! I do really, truly hope he get gets to finish narrating the series. He is kinda old now, I hate to say.

Harry Lloyd, TV Viserys, reads the D&E books. Also amazing, but sometimes his low voice gets a little too low.

Ian Glenn, TV Jorah, reads the Princess and the Queen, but I don't care for that one as much

[Isobel Harper]

13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Always happy to share this info.

I upload them onto my old iphone, now ipod, from Audible. http://www.audible.com/search/ref=a_hp_tseft?advsearchKeywords=a+song+of+ice+and+fire&filterby=field-keywords&sprefixRefmarker=nb_sb_ss_i_0_6&sprefix=A+song

I do a lot of artwork at my in-home studio and drive my kid around a lot so it ends up that the books are on pretty much all the time at different points throughout the day. Sometimes it's just background noise, sometimes I forget to work because I get so sucked in to the story again. For instance about two weeks ago when I came upon the Jon chapter when he has his Ghost dream at the fist and then he finds Ghost hurt by the eagle.

Roy Dotrice narrates this series like he did with the World book and I swear to all the gods, he could read a noodle package and I would be enthralled. His husky female voice is brilliant. His voice for Arya and Dany are a little leprechaunish, but great! I do really, truly hope he get gets to finish narrating the series. He is kinda old now, I hate to say.

Harry Lloyd, TV Viserys, reads the D&E books. Also amazing, but sometimes his low voice gets a little too low.

Ian Glenn, TV Jorah, reads the Princess and the Queen, but I don't care for that one as much

Really?  I love Iain Glenn's voice! 

I've listened to some of the audiobooks on YouTube, but don't have any downloaded/bought.  Roy Dotrice does make a few voices "leprechaunish" but it becomes easy to ignore.