Ser Hyle Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Hoppy Hour said: Lannister brains as in? So far we've met a few Lannisters, but it's not like the family name is a guarantee for brains: Tytos, Jaime, Cersei, Lancel... Jaime doesn't have brains? I thought his Riverlands adventures proved that he's quite intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 51 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said: Jaime doesn't have brains? I thought his Riverlands adventures proved that he's quite intelligent. It does take some gray matter to come up with the quips he has produced. And he may just develop his thinker a bit more as time goes while he is not able to fight on the front line. He would just rather hack and slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuckey Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ser Tyrion Lannister. Sounds strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warren Royce Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Thuckey said: Ser Tyrion Lannister. Sounds strange. Ser Tyrion, the Ant lion of House Lannister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuckey Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Plus I think him being "Lord Tyrion" doesn't that make it so "Ser" would be like a rank DOWN? Jamie can be ser, as he is a knight of the kingsguard, but Tywin was also "Lord Tywin" not "Set Tywin". idk. As far as I know, Lord > Ser ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warren Royce Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Well, as Lord Tywin took his place as Hand, and Tyrion was soon just Master of Coin, Lordship being a courtesy. I mean, he's a Lord, yeah, but not officially, as Lord Tywin was lord of Casterly Rock, and Tyrion disinherited.....-my brain hurts a bit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuckey Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Does anybody know what the formal system of advancement is in the world of Westeros? Like a chart or something of the like, that would be interesting. How one goes from being lowborn to highborn perhaps. Although the transition for a family to go from low born to high born would doubtless take several generations and a plethora of wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Matthis Light Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think its plain to see Cersei hates Tyrion and Joff hates Tyrion, so why would they award him anything? But what I don't get is was Tyrion really the Heir to Casterly Rock? I know by the rules of Agnatic-Primogeniture he was by default,but Tywin denied him as his heir to HIS FACE. Lets say instead of Joff dying at his wedding it was Tywin, and Cersei blamed Oberyn for the murder, would Tyrion be Lord of Casterly Rock, or would Cersei be lady of Casterly Rock because she knows Tywin doesn't want Tyrion to rule? Would Kevan and the Western Lords prefer Tyrion over Cersei cause they prefer a Male or Female liege? ( I ask this question before but never got a reply :\ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Somehow I doubt Tyrion would appreciate it as everyone in Westeros would consider it a joke and would only make him an even bigger target for mockery. If Tyrion wanted to be a Knight he would have been one by now as he could have easily made some other knight do it. He is a little to self aware to think him being a knight will be taken seriously by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warren Royce Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think Kevan would have become Lord of CR over both Cersei, and Tyrion, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daccu65 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think that there are three reasons: #1. The Lannisters see him as an embarrassment; both due to his dwarfism and his previous habits of whoring. As such, nobody in the Lannister family, especially Tywin, is going to call more attention to him by requesting or granting knighthood. #2. I think that his family is so dismissive of him that they honestly don't see the extent of his contributions. Not only was his idea to use the chain and Wildfyre to cripple Stannis' fleet brilliant, his re-prioritizing the preparations in King's Landing (IE, putting all the armorers to work on the chain, clearing out the slums against the walls) made it possible to execute his plan. In other words, not only were Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey deliberately snubbing him, they also didn't grasp the full extent of what he did. #3. Finally, I think it would be dangerous for him to become a knight. I'm not full up on ASoIaF etiquette, but didn't the European age of chivalry allow knights to challenge each other over very trivial items? Once you have the "Ser" on your name, isn't it harder to designate a champion? Tyrion is tougher than he looks, but if he has to answer a challenge from, say, Ser Edmure Tully, he's in serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ser Warren Royce said: I think Kevan would have become Lord of CR over both Cersei, and Tyrion, to be honest. Kevan has already acknowledged Cersei as the Lady of the Rock in AFFC. Until Tyrion 'killed' Joffrey he was the legitimate heir of the Rock no matter what Tywin said to him in a private conversation. Tywin's plan was to convince both Jaime and the Crown to have him released from his vows, there is no indication that another person would have become his new heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: Until Tyrion 'killed' Joffrey he was the legitimate heir of the Rock no matter what Tywin said to him in a private conversation. Tywin's plan was to convince both Jaime and the Crown to have him released from his vows, there is no indication that another person would have become his new heir. Yep until Tywin actually named another heir Tyrion was the heir apparent by the laws of Westeros, Cersei and her children were behind him in the line of succession (son before a daughter) and Jamie had given up his claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warren Royce Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 hour ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: Kevan has already acknowledged Cersei as the Lady of the Rock in AFFC. Until Tyrion 'killed' Joffrey he was the legitimate heir of the Rock no matter what Tywin said to him in a private conversation. Tywin's plan was to convince both Jaime and the Crown to have him released from his vows, there is no indication that another person would have become his new heir. Funny enough, I'm soon going to be re-reading AFFCs for the second time on what I think will be my yearly re-read series. What was I thinking? I mean, it is known that Kevan was groomed to be Tywins' Lieutenant, but I figured he wouldn't be that way with Cersei, and I mean she is Queen Regent... but... well, to be fair, I doubt I've read the series enough times to really stand up in debate with someone over something. So, I concede to your superior knowledge, and see this as a learning opportunity. 1 hour ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Who knights a person is important. Who would want to knight a dwarf? Anyone unscrupulous enough who would knight Tyrion would make Tyrion's knighthood worthless. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1045/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Frasier of House Crane Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 It would be seen as an insult to other knights and a blight on the very idea of knighthood. Did Tyrion deserve it? Yes. But no one was going to afford him that honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 4 hours ago, Ser Hyle said: Why would this even be a a question? I'm going to go with his impressive feats while engaged in the fighting business. These things typically lead to knighthoods. You have a different valuation of knighthood than I do. To me it's meaningless to the part Tyrion plays in the story. He's Lann the Clever, not the Mirror Knight. Warriors and fighters in the story tend to wind up in a bad way. Robert, dead. Jaime, maimed. Sandor Clegane, nearly dead of wounds, brother Gregor either dead or a zombie. Oberyn, dead. The list goes on and on. What does this mean? That in GRRM's universe fighters are relatively unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasB Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: Warriors and fighters in the story tend to wind up in a bad way. A whole lot of other characters have also winded up in an unpleasant way. In Martin's world the majority of men in noble houses, and we only get their account of events, at some point needs to fight in a war (that's simply their duty). It could just as easily be said about mothers (Catelyn, Cersei, even Daenerys, who's lost her child and now is barren) or anyone else (actually that's kind of natural for warriors to die more often given they participate in combat in which some of them simply have to get killed :P) I think the topic of hypothetical Tyrion's knighting was never brought up because of a few reasons. For one thing, he didn't care (he somewhat shared The Hound's opinion on that, maybe not completely but still) and secondly, there was nobody who would have had even the slightest interest to grant him that honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Thuckey said: Plus I think him being "Lord Tyrion" doesn't that make it so "Ser" would be like a rank DOWN? Jamie can be ser, as he is a knight of the kingsguard, but Tywin was also "Lord Tywin" not "Set Tywin". idk. As far as I know, Lord > Ser ? A Lord can be a knight and a Lord at the same time; for example, Tywin. Same as a Prince can be both a Prince and a Knight. They are still knights even if they aren't calling themselves Ser because they have another title. Becoming a Lord or something similar does not erase knighthood. Also, Tyrion is not truly a Lord, he is in the same position as Varys, where he receives the title as mere courtesy for his Small Council position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said: Who knights a person is important. Who would want to knight a dwarf? Anyone unscrupulous enough who would knight Tyrion would make Tyrion's knighthood worthless. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1045/ Ser Garlan Tyrell seemed quite impressed by Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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