A Horn? No. A Wolf! Jon, Ghost, and the Horn that Wakes the Sleepers

[Sly Wren]

18 hours ago, Voice said:

You two were talking about the crypts the other day, and SW mentioned my notion of Lyanna being in them. I just want to point out that unlike traditional crypts, the elder layers of Starks are closer to the entrance. As one deepens their way into them, one comes upon more recent Starks. Just as Rhaegar was "the last dragon"... Lyanna was "the last Stark" to be placed in the crypts.

I think this is significant. She is the person who lies deepest within them.

But wouldn't that mean Ned had to excavate the crypts, entomb her that far below (as opposed to the spaces next to Brandon and Rickard--like he already has spaces for his children in the crypt) and then fill it all back up?

That seems. . . labor intensive. Any reason why Ned would do that?

Since the spaces Ned has for his children and the tombs of Brandon and Rickard aren't that deep, any reason why Ned wouldn't just use the (presumably) prepared spaces for Lyanna next to Brandon and Rickard?

18 hours ago, Voice said:

Jon is being beckoned deeper and deeper, past the implacable kings of winter, to his mother. Ned is likely there in spirit, if not in body. So he could be the one sending Jon the invitation as well. No tellin. But one way or another, the Starks of yore are a part of the Heart Tree's root system.

I agree that all of the Starks are in that root system. But in Jon's dreams, he's not being drawn past the Kings of Winter. He's drawn to them, and they stumble out of their graves. That's what he sees when he goes further. And only after Ghost finds the wights. That same night, he dreams of going further until he gets to the Tomb Busting Royals. And he has that same dream again in Clash, I think.

Seems like that's what he's supposed to see in the tombs. Doesn't exclude other things, but really think the Kings are a key element.

18 hours ago, Voice said:

Did someone mention Asclepius' Miasma?

LOL

Humph.

 

[Sly Wren]

17 hours ago, Gendry GOT a WarHammer said:

All I can say is that I really hope when (if?) GRRM releases the last two books all the people who posted crazy bats&*t insane theories like this one will come out and admit how wrong they are.

HA! If everyone who has posted on this forum over the years must all apologize/confess how wrong our ideas were after the books come out, the forum will be so clogged with confessionals that Ran and Linda will be yelling at us all to knock it off. Completely impractical. But it might be fun to read.

That's the whole point--we try out ideas and see how they go. 

17 hours ago, Gendry GOT a WarHammer said:

None of this makes any sense from a real storytelling perspective. It's just a bunch of hogwash.

Not following you here--any chance you'd be willing to state what you think doesn't make sense, specifically?

13 hours ago, Voice said:

What good is a mind if you close it?

Such a waste...

[Arry'sFleas]

 

On 15/05/2016 at 4:38 PM, Voice said:

Are there two crypts now?

you must be pulling my leg, right?

Lyanna's tomb is at the end of the first level where the more recent Stark kings and lords are entombed. She is at one side of here father, her brother being at the other side. If she died after him (and i have not searched that bit), then her's would be the last tomb...there are more spots, one for Ned, work in progress, the others not yet filled.

[Arry'sFleas]

On 14/05/2016 at 9:44 AM, Voice said:

I have a feeling Starks are uniquely immune to the threat of the Others. In all of history, we've never heard of a Stark being killed by the Others. Is that not strange?

In relation to this, i find it interesting that Will describes the Mocking WW (Waymar's dancing partner) as 'Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones'.

Jon describes his uncle Benjen as 'sharp-featured and gaunt as a mountain crag'.

Bran describes Jon ' Jon was slender ..., graceful and quick ...'

Sam describes Ser Frosty Fruit as sliding gracefully from the saddle.

 

Admittedly there must be other slim, graceful characters about, including Waymar Royce, 'graceful and slender as a knife'.

Still, it is as if the author is either telling us that their is a family resemblance or teasing us.

 

[Arry'sFleas]

13 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

We've talked on Heresy about the Others leading a sort of Wild Hunt, driving the humans out. But, if the shades rise, I could see a Wild Hunt going in the other direction--Shades could ride on the wind in ways Wights and Others can't (so far.)

I like that. Shades rising on the wind.....ah but are they hunting the WW or the wights? surely only the wights since the WW are 'not dead'.

The last thing we should expect is a remake of the LOTR army of dead!

13 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

There might not be a "once and for all." Just another "8,000 year band-aid."

possibly, after all, the story is only 'a' SOIAF; the opportunity for a sequel? 

[Sly Wren]

6 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

I like that. Shades rising on the wind.....ah but are they hunting the WW or the wights? surely only the wights since the WW are 'not dead'.

That would depend on what the threat is. 

In the Wild Hunt, supernatural beings ride (often with hounds) to drive the mortals back. They can also just drive their enemies back and mortals get in the way. It's very unpredictable and dangerous.

So, if the Stark dead became their own Wild Hunt, they'd drive back the supernatural enemy. And that could very well include the White Walkers.

That said, this is very, very speculative. But the Wild Hunt with its supernatural hounds--that could be dead Starks with their direwovles--they all have direwolf effigies at their feet. Seems like it's at least possible the wolves are in the tomb with them--waiting to hunt. And the Wild Hunt's hounds are often called Hell Hounds--like the hounds Symeon Star Eyes saw fighting at the Night Fort.

6 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

The last thing we should expect is a remake of the LOTR army of dead!

I hope not. But Martin does like his homages. And he reuses ideas all the time--liek every other write in existence.

6 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

possibly, after all, the story is only 'a' SOIAF; the opportunity for a sequel? 

"A Sequel of Ice and Fire"--they could even keep the same abbreviation. 

[Voice]

On 5/15/2016 at 11:19 AM, Sly Wren said:

But wouldn't that mean Ned had to excavate the crypts, entomb her that far below (as opposed to the spaces next to Brandon and Rickard--like he already has spaces for his children in the crypt) and then fill it all back up?

That seems. . . labor intensive. Any reason why Ned would do that?

Since the spaces Ned has for his children and the tombs of Brandon and Rickard aren't that deep, any reason why Ned wouldn't just use the (presumably) prepared spaces for Lyanna next to Brandon and Rickard?

Nope. No excavation required.

Interestingly, the Stark Crypts seem pre-excavated. I believe this to be due to the fact that it is an abandoned (or maybe not) cotf barrow.

The Oldest Kings of Winter are near to the entrance. As one descends into the crypts, one reaches successively younger Kings, then Lords of Winterfell, then eventually, Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna and Ned's empty tomb.

The levels are not clearly labeled for us that differentiate each, but we do know that the deeper layers are for contemporary Starks, and that the first level is for the eldest Kings of Winter.

This is rather unlike most burial methods, in which the eldest layers are deepest, and contemporary burials/tombs are placed above them, generation after generation. These Starks are not like other men. They are Other men.

 

On 5/15/2016 at 11:19 AM, Sly Wren said:

I agree that all of the Starks are in that root system. But in Jon's dreams, he's not being drawn past the Kings of Winter. He's drawn to them, and they stumble out of their graves. That's what he sees when he goes further. And only after Ghost finds the wights. That same night, he dreams of going further until he gets to the Tomb Busting Royals. And he has that same dream again in Clash, I think.

Seems like that's what he's supposed to see in the tombs. Doesn't exclude other things, but really think the Kings are a key element.

Seems to me those Kings do not want him there, and something deeper does. Thus, he walks further past them, deeper into the crypts, where the more recent Starks are buried.

 

On 5/15/2016 at 11:19 AM, Sly Wren said:

Humph.

Perfect impersonation of Mrs Voice. LOL

 

11 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

you must be pulling my leg, right?

Lyanna's tomb is at the end of the first level where the more recent Stark kings and lords are entombed. She is at one side of here father, her brother being at the other side. If she died after him (and i have not searched that bit), then her's would be the last tomb...there are more spots, one for Ned, work in progress, the others not yet filled.

Exactly. Hers is the last-filled tomb. And, it is deeper than the old Kings of Winter. The deeper levels are for more recent Starks, and Jon is being beckoned deeper.

 

11 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

In relation to this, i find it interesting that Will describes the Mocking WW (Waymar's dancing partner) as 'Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones'.

Jon describes his uncle Benjen as 'sharp-featured and gaunt as a mountain crag'.

Bran describes Jon ' Jon was slender ..., graceful and quick ...'

Sam describes Ser Frosty Fruit as sliding gracefully from the saddle.

 

Admittedly there must be other slim, graceful characters about, including Waymar Royce, 'graceful and slender as a knife'.

Still, it is as if the author is either telling us that their is a family resemblance or teasing us.

 

And there's much more like that:

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

He led the way between the pillars and Robert followed wordlessly, shivering in the subterranean chill. It was always cold down here. Their footsteps rang off the stones and echoed in the vault overhead as they walked among the dead of House Stark. The Lords of Winterfell watched them pass. Their likenesses were carved into the stones that sealed the tombs. In long rows they sat, blind eyes staring out into eternal darkness, while great stone direwolves curled round their feet. The shifting shadows made the stone figures seem to stir as the living passed by.

By ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts. The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone. Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not. The first Lords of Winterfell had been men hard as the land they ruled. In the centuries before the Dragonlords came over the sea, they had sworn allegiance to no man, styling themselves the Kings in the North.

 

 

Cold and implacable men, that made Robert Baratheon shiver...

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Will shared his unease. He had been four years on the Wall. The first time he had been sent beyond, all the old stories had come rushing back, and his bowels had turned to water. He had laughed about it afterward. He was a veteran of a hundred rangings by now, and the endless dark wilderness that the southron called the haunted forest had no more terrors for him.

Until tonight. Something was different tonight. There was an edge to this darkness that made his hackles rise. Nine days they had been riding, north and northwest and then north again, farther and farther from the Wall, hard on the track of a band of Wildling raiders. Each day had been worse than the day that had come before it. Today was the worst of all. A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and it made the trees rustle like living things. All day, Will had felt as though something were watching him, something cold and implacable that loved him not. Gared had felt it too. Will wanted nothing so much as to ride hellbent for the safety of the Wall, but that was not a feeling to share with your commander.

 

 

Gared and Will's unease is not at all unlike Jon's in his dreams, or Theon's with Lady Dustin. Robert is shivering in the underwold's chill, even though he has plenty of insulation.

[Arry'sFleas]

3 hours ago, Voice said:

And there's much more like that:

yes, what about this one:

GoT Bran 7

"They were the Kings in the North for thousands of years," Maester Luwin said, lifting the torch high so the light shone on the stone faces. Some were hairy and bearded, shaggy men fierce as the wolves that crouched by their feet. Others were shaved clean, their features gaunt and sharp-edged as the iron longswords across their laps. "Hard men for a hard time. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Voice said:

Exactly. Hers is the last-filled tomb. And, it is deeper than the old Kings of Winter. The deeper levels are for more recent Starks, and Jon is being beckoned deeper.

 

I agree that is it the last filled tomb.

But what do you make of these two quotes?

 

Got Bran 7

The vault was cavernous, longer than Winterfell itself, and Jon had told him once that there were other levels underneath, vaults even deeper and darker where the older kings were buried.

 

DwD - The Turncloak - Theon and Lady Dustbin:

"My lady," Theon broke in. "Here we are."

"The steps go farther down," observed Lady Dustin.

"There are lower levels. Older. The lowest level is partly collapsed, I hear. I have never been down there." He pushed the door open and led them out into a long vaulted tunnel, where mighty granite pillars marched two by two into blackness.

 

So we learn that there are lower levels, no mention of how many and that the crypt that the Stark kids played in is 'longer than Winterfell'!!......that means a lot of tombs ... at 15 to 20 years per king, they number in the several hundreds.

The fate of the lowest level 'partly collapsed' is also interesting. Theon has been told, but no one else has ever mentioned going there

 

 

[Arry'sFleas]

On 15/05/2016 at 4:19 AM, Sly Wren said:

I agree that all of the Starks are in that root system. But in Jon's dreams, he's not being drawn past the Kings of Winter. He's drawn to them, and they stumble out of their graves. That's what he sees when he goes further. And only after Ghost finds the wights. That same night, he dreams of going further until he gets to the Tomb Busting Royals. And he has that same dream again in Clash, I think.

Seems like that's what he's supposed to see in the tombs. Doesn't exclude other things, but really think the Kings are a key element.

GoT Jon 4

The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of.

If he is not afraid of the Kings, then what of? his destiny?

GoT Jon 7
Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he'd heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves

CoK Jon 8
He dreamed of burning castles and dead men rising unquiet from their graves.

The future or the past?

Will Lyanna rise when he finally visits in person (so to speak since he may be dead).

 

SoS Jon 8
 You are no Stark, he could hear them mutter, in heavy granite voices. There is no place for you here. Go away...... They are feasting in the Great Hall, but I am not welcome there. I am no Stark, and this is not my place.

SoS Sam 4
All my dreams are of the crypts, of the stone kings on their thrones. Sometimes I hear Robb's voice, and my father's, as if they were at a feast. But there's a wall between us, and I know that no place has been set for me.

This one seems to be more of the past, recollecting the King's feast at the start of the story, but a feast for the dead. A feast in which his uncle is not mentioned, btw.

However, he is not dead, so he is not invited.

Yet.

 

Worth noting that the crypt dreams stop there, which is when he becomes LC. At that point he starts having wolfdreams and (lots of) nighmares.

 

[Voice]

2 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

yes, what about this one:

GoT Bran 7

"They were the Kings in the North for thousands of years," Maester Luwin said, lifting the torch high so the light shone on the stone faces. Some were hairy and bearded, shaggy men fierce as the wolves that crouched by their feet. Others were shaved clean, their features gaunt and sharp-edged as the iron longswords across their laps. "Hard men for a hard time. 

 

 

 

I agree that is it the last filled tomb.

But what do you make of these two quotes?

 

Got Bran 7

The vault was cavernous, longer than Winterfell itself, and Jon had told him once that there were other levels underneath, vaults even deeper and darker where the older kings were buried.

 

DwD - The Turncloak - Theon and Lady Dustbin:

"My lady," Theon broke in. "Here we are."

"The steps go farther down," observed Lady Dustin.

"There are lower levels. Older. The lowest level is partly collapsed, I hear. I have never been down there." He pushed the door open and led them out into a long vaulted tunnel, where mighty granite pillars marched two by two into blackness.

 

So we learn that there are lower levels, no mention of how many and that the crypt that the Stark kids played in is 'longer than Winterfell'!!......that means a lot of tombs ... at 15 to 20 years per king, they number in the several hundreds.

The fate of the lowest level 'partly collapsed' is also interesting. Theon has been told, but no one else has ever mentioned going there

 

 

I stand utterly corrected! Thanks! LOL I must've switched the stratum in my head!

What's funny is that I know this isn't the first time I've done it. LOL

[Arry'sFleas]

1 hour ago, Voice said:

I stand utterly corrected! Thanks! LOL I must've switched the stratum in my head!

What's funny is that I know this isn't the first time I've done it. LOL

that will even out the Nightfort Gates...

 

Another interesting bit i found when foraging in the crypts:

GoT Bran 7 -  Bran is talking to Mr Luwin about his dream of his father in the crypts:

"He was there last night. I talked to him."

Bran could not recall the last time he had been in the crypts.

What is the point of this remark? they played there as kids, but Rickon is still a small kid and they no longer go there?

[Sly Wren]

19 hours ago, Voice said:

The Oldest Kings of Winter are near to the entrance. As one descends into the crypts, one reaches successively younger Kings, then Lords of Winterfell, then eventually, Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna and Ned's empty tomb.

The levels are not clearly labeled for us that differentiate each, but we do know that the deeper layers are for contemporary Starks, and that the first level is for the eldest Kings of Winter.

 

16 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

The vault was cavernous, longer than Winterfell itself, and Jon had told him once that there were other levels underneath, vaults even deeper and darker where the older kings were buried.

 

13 hours ago, Voice said:

I stand utterly corrected! Thanks! LOL I must've switched the stratum in my head!

What's funny is that I know this isn't the first time I've done it. LOL

Thanks to you both for working that out!

But yes, @Voice, this was my point. The night finding the wights, Jon dreams of going even further than before in the crypts and then seeing the dead kings de-tombing. Sounds like that's part of what he's supposed to do--go very deep into the tombs and where the old kings will "rise."

19 hours ago, Voice said:

Seems to me those Kings do not want him there, and something deeper does. Thus, he walks further past them, deeper into the crypts, where the more recent Starks are buried.

Given the above, seems like he really is supposed to "meet" the oldest Starks.

I have posited that Jon should meet his mother in the crypt and I do hope he gets to meet her. But given how his dreams progress in Game and that he has that dream again as @Arry'sFleas quoted above, seems like meeting/waking the old kings is where he's going.

20 hours ago, Voice said:

Perfect impersonation of Mrs Voice. LOL

Clearly Mrs. Voice is a woman of great intelligence and discernment.

[Sly Wren]

15 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

GoT Jon 4

The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of.

If he is not afraid of the Kings, then what of? his destiny?

Yes--that line is interesting to me, too. And I think that his destiny is what he fears. Or his role. The line is odd, given his reaction in the dreams when the Old Kings rise--he's filled with horror. But if this is not what he feared, something else must be up, too.

15 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

GoT Jon 7
Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he'd heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves

CoK Jon 8
He dreamed of burning castles and dead men rising unquiet from their graves.

The future or the past?

Will Lyanna rise when he finally visits in person (so to speak since he may be dead).

I really think he's dreaming of the future. And I think the timing of the "Dead King" dream is telling--the night after Ghost brings them the wight hand. He's getting pieces (literally) of what the problem is. And then dreams of a piece of how to deal with that problem. 

As for Lyanna, as I said to @Voice above, I have thought and even essayed on the idea that Jon will see Lyanna in the tombs. And I hope he does get to see her. But given the construction of the tombs (thanks for finding the quotes!) and how Jon's dreams progress and the timing of them, I really think the tombs are about Jon waking the old kings.

15 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

This one seems to be more of the past, recollecting the King's feast at the start of the story, but a feast for the dead. A feast in which his uncle is not mentioned, btw.

However, he is not dead, so he is not invited.

Yet.

I agree that the quotes are more about the past, but I think they are also about Jon's guilt. The whole passage:

He dreamt he was back in Winterfell, limping past the stone kings on their thrones. Their grey granite eyes turned to follow him as he passed, and their grey granite fingers tightened on the hilts of the rusted swords upon their laps. You are no Stark, he could hear them mutter, in heavy granite voices. There is no place for you here. Go away. He walked deeper into the darkness. "Father?" he called. "Bran? Rickon?" No one answered. A chill wind was blowing on his neck. "Uncle?" he called. "Uncle Benjen? Father? Please, Father, help me." Up above he heard drums. They are feasting in the Great Hall, but I am not welcome there. I am no Stark, and this is not my place. His crutch slipped and he fell to his knees. The crypts were growing darker. A light has gone out somewhere. "Ygritte?" he whispered. "Forgive me. Please." But it was only a direwolf, grey and ghastly, spotted with blood, his golden eyes shining sadly through the dark . . Storm Jon VIII

Note that this time, he's not dreaming of waking kings, but of stone ones. He feels unwelcome in the crypts and in Winterfell per se. He's looking for help, he's feeling guilty over Ygritte and probably over Robb. 

I think this is guilt over "breaking" his vows and missing his family and all the conflicting emotions that brings up.

And good catch on the Benjen point. 

15 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

Worth noting that the crypt dreams stop there, which is when he becomes LC. At that point he starts having wolfdreams and (lots of) nighmares.

A very good point. He's getting information re: what to do with Ghost and what to do with the Wall--at least in his nightmare battle. 

How all of that "information" will work together will be interesting to read.

[Voice]

19 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

that will even out the Nightfort Gates...

 

What's really funny (to me at least) is that we've come full circle. A long time ago in heresy I was saying that Lyanna is calling to Jon from the crypts. BC pointed out that the eldest crypts are down below. I took that info and applied it to Lyanna, and came up with the idea that the only way she could have been calling to Jon was if her consciousness were in the Heart Tree. LOL

So that was actually where the theory originated, yet my brain flipped the levels again anyway.

You learn something new everyday, particularly if you forget it the next. LOL

 

19 hours ago, Arry'sFleas said:

Another interesting bit i found when foraging in the crypts:

GoT Bran 7 -  Bran is talking to Mr Luwin about his dream of his father in the crypts:

"He was there last night. I talked to him."

Bran could not recall the last time he had been in the crypts.

What is the point of this remark? they played there as kids, but Rickon is still a small kid and they no longer go there?

That is peculiar.

[DarkSister1001]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:12 AM, Sly Wren said:

But your idea of their retaining their personalities would be interesting. If the Kings start squabbling with each other, that could be hilarious. How do you discipline a Ghost Horde Watch?

I was thinking about how some may be upset about the wildlings and some may understand.  The Old Bear says that the NW has forgotten their true purpose, perhaps some of the more recently dead Starks have too.  The oldest ones may understand since they have seen much and more.  But maybe it'll also depend on what they can see through the weirwoods.

[Sly Wren]

4 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said:

I was thinking about how some may be upset about the wildlings and some may understand.  The Old Bear says that the NW has forgotten their true purpose, perhaps some of the more recently dead Starks have too.  The oldest ones may understand since they have seen much and more.  But maybe it'll also depend on what they can see through the weirwoods.

Their statues are described as grim and hard and fierce.

The idea that they don't know what the real fight was about would make no sense.

Which suddenly raises an interesting option: I've been thinking all along that Bran will learn how to defeat the Others via Bloodraven's weirnet connection. Which is one of the things that made me despair of his ever getting home.

But if Jon talks to the old Kings of Winter after they stumble out of their tombs, Jon could get a lot of information that way, too.

And, no, I don't only like the idea because it could free Bran up to come home. I also like it because it ties into Ned's coming back and telling Bran "something about Jon"--Bran can't remember what Ned said exactly, but the idea that Stark Shades come back to inform has already been shown. 

And. . . it would possibly free Bran up to come home. Which is a plus. 

And, since Jon has already crossed the realm of the dead and is very likely to cross back, he may be able to more easily communicate with the shades than Bran and Rickon could. All very speculative, but it seems to fit with some of what we've seen.

[DarkSister1001]

11 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

The idea that they don't know what the real fight was about would make no sense.

True.  I talked myself into that one before I realized what I was saying. 

11 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

And, since Jon has already crossed the realm of the dead and is very likely to cross back, he may be able to more easily communicate with the shades than Bran and Rickon could. All very speculative, but it seems to fit with some of what we've seen.

I like it.  I've never subscribed to the idea that he'll be stuck there indefinitely or that all of his companions will die a la the Last Hero.  I think he'll be essential to rebuilding WF and I don't think he can do that by whispering through the weirwood. 

[Kingmonkey]

One thing I'm struggling with here is the notion that waking the shades of the old Stark kings is necessarily a good thing. After all, the tradition of the iron swords is to stop them from awakening. 

[Sly Wren]

On May 18, 2016 at 2:02 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

I like it.  I've never subscribed to the idea that he'll be stuck there indefinitely or that all of his companions will die a la the Last Hero.  I think he'll be essential to rebuilding WF and I don't think he can do that by whispering through the weirwood. 

I really, really hope so. And it would fit with his being the "new" Brandon. If some of the theories out there hold, the first Brandon the Builder may well have become the Night's King. And that's part of why the Night's King name was stricken from the records. But if Bran helps undo the problems of the Long Night, he'd be the opposite of a Night's King. He'd bring summer.

On May 19, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Kingmonkey said:

One thing I'm struggling with here is the notion that waking the shades of the old Stark kings is necessarily a good thing. After all, the tradition of the iron swords is to stop them from awakening. 

That's a good point. Plus we've got Ygritte talking about the shades released when they were looking for the Horn. And other's talk of ghosts and shades as not good. So, that tradition of the dead waking--either as wights or shades--might be part of the iron sword belief.

But we also have Ned's shade coming to his boys and talking with them. Which, though disturbing, wasn't a "bad" thing. 

As for the swords, this has be bandied about on Heresy since long before I got there, but I, too, wonder if the tradition of the swords is a mistake. That's not what they were originally for. The Kings have swords to symbolize being ready for a fight. To warn any who come into the crypts who aren't Starks. Rather like Robb:

 

Quote

Robb was seated in Father's high seat, wearing ringmail and boiled leather and the stern face of Robb the Lord. Theon Greyjoy and Hallis Mollen stood behind him. A dozen guardsmen lined the grey stone walls beneath tall narrow windows. In the center of the room the dwarf stood with his servants, and four strangers in the black of the Night's Watch. Bran could sense the anger in the hall the moment that Hodor carried him through the doors.

"Any man of the Night's Watch is welcome here at Winterfell for as long as he wishes to stay," Robb was saying with the voice of Robb the Lord. His sword was across his knees, the steel bare for all the world to see. Even Bran knew what it meant to greet a guest with an unsheathed sword. 

"Any man of the Night's Watch," the dwarf repeated, "but not me, do I take your meaning, boy?" Game, Bran IV

Robb's ready for a fight. Showing all that Tyrion is not welcome.

The kings in the crypt also sit with swords on their knees--I'm thinking there's a decent chance everyone just forgot the meaning and conflated the iron swords with keeping ghosts in. Vs. shades' being protectors and waiting warriors.

[Arry'sFleas]

9 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

The Kings have swords to symbolize being ready for a fight. To warn any who come into the crypts who aren't Starks.

I tend to agree with you there, we have this remark from Ned:

The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone. Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not.

Rusted long ago...and that is just on this level.