The Theatre Troupe

[ununsullied]

On 10 May 2016 at 11:57 AM, SevasTra82 said:

This has ALWAYS been my issue with Aryas plot line.  Her story arc seems to serve zero purpose to ASOIAF's (and the show's) main story line.  At the end of the day, what point will all of this FM stuff serve, especially if Arya just runs back to Westeros with needle?  Sure, it helped her learn how to kill better but.....so?  What difference does *that* make in the grand scheme of things?

As cool as the whole FM story arc is....it just feels very empty to me.  It's so disconnected to the rest of the story that I have trouble seeing what it's point is in the grand scheme of things.  Hopefully it'll come together soon.

Agreed. I have only read 1.5 books but as far as the TV show everything now is rushing to get told as there are only 2 short series left. For me personally this could have all been left out of the show. I bet D+D don't give this a deep and satisfying conclusion now - she will just go back and it will all have been filler. Hope i'm wrong. I was a massive show fan from series 1 to 4 - but then had to track down this forum in series 5 to find out what the hell went wrong!!

[ununsullied]

19 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Jaqu'n and the Waif both said she's not ready, and that will turn out to be the case. She can't just resign from the FM; she'll have to smuggle herself out of braavos with the troupe (who I think will head to KL), and the FM will be after her to take her face. No idea how she'll survive that but i think she will.

Agreed - loved the Theatre Troupe, that was the best scene for me. I didn't love how the COTF have changed in looks to conveniently echo the white walkers. I like the ethereal yet frightening children from season 1 - now they look like any old Zombie game character.

Anyway - so Bran is 'not ready' , Arya is 'not ready' , Robb was clearly 'not ready' do the Starks learn anything?? Has Sansa learnt that Littlefinger is a liar - seems not

[House Cambodia]

Going back to where the Faceless Men fit into the grander scheme, I'm struggling too. I suspect that in the show they basically won't and it will have been a waste of plot. In the books I'm sure GRRM has something figured out. One poster has a theory I like very much: the FM are in Braavos, the HQ of the Iron Bank. The IB will have its due and the Lannisters ain't coughing up. The theory is the IB commission Arya to go to KL to assassinate Cercei. Maybe she wears the face of Tommen. As a FM she could rock up anywhere in Westeros and cause havoc; let's wait and see.

[hallam]

7 hours ago, TickTak7 said:

The big takeaway that I got from the Theatre Troupe scene (which, by the way, was an absolutely brilliant scene!), was that Arya isn't "NO ONE". 

Not yet, anyway. Probably not ever. 

She clearly had a very emotional and visceral reaction to seeing the play, her father, and her sister on-stage. Surely if she was "no one" she'd be as emotionless and cold as The Waif?

Her reactions during the stage play combined with the fact that she still has Needle hidden somewhere, leads me to believe that she's still not "no one", or that the real Arya is still very much in there, trying to use The Many Faced God for her own benefit rather than fully subscribing to their faith. 

Quite. Arya hid needle. She never intended to become no-one.

2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Jaqu'n and the Waif both said she's not ready, and that will turn out to be the case. She can't just resign from the FM; she'll have to smuggle herself out of braavos with the troupe (who I think will head to KL), and the FM will be after her to take her face. No idea how she'll survive that but i think she will.

There is clearly some split about to come. Note that Jaqu'n said that there would be a new face on the wall either way. Implying that they will murder Arya if she doesn't complete her mission.

But given that, why send Arya on a mission that would only remind her of her past?

1 hour ago, House Cambodia said:

Going back to where the Faceless Men fit into the grander scheme, I'm struggling too. I suspect that in the show they basically won't and it will have been a waste of plot. In the books I'm sure GRRM has something figured out. One poster has a theory I like very much: the FM are in Braavos, the HQ of the Iron Bank. The IB will have its due and the Lannisters ain't coughing up. The theory is the IB commission Arya to go to KL to assassinate Cercei. Maybe she wears the face of Tommen. As a FM she could rock up anywhere in Westeros and cause havoc; let's wait and see.

Well the Faceless Men and the Iron Bank are certainly linked. It can't be a coincidence that they are both in the same city. I also suspect that there is a lot more exposition in the books.

I have to wonder if the whole point of training her to be a FM was to prove to Arya that she isn't the cold bloodied killer she imagines herself to be. Arya has a very strong sense of justice. 

But one of the rules of the FM is also that they only give the gift to people they don't know. So can they kill Arya?

For that matter, why was Jaqu'n in King's Landing in the first place? Who was he trying to kill when he was caught? What happens when a FM fails in their task?

[Nerevanin]

I wonder if Arya reacted the way she reacted to the theatre because it was emotional to "see" her father and sister again or because  they twisted the story so much from what really happened (although I suppose that most people see it like that, excluding the Northerns)?

[Prince of Dragonstone]

What I found so interesting about this scene was the propaganda angle, especially in relations to Tyrion. Interesting that Tyrion gets painted with the actual deeds of Littlefinger. It was Littlefinger who whispered "treason" in Ned's ear, not Tyrion. It was Littefinger who then betrayed Ned at dagger-point, not Tyrion. 

I wonder if Littlefinger had anything to do with planting the idea in the smallfolk's heads that Tyrion is a "treacherous little monster". We've seen time and again that Littlefinger has targeted Tyrion to try to knock him out of the Game as a player. He even framed him for Joffrey's murder in the hopes that Tyrion would get offed as well. Littlefinger definitely recognizes Tyrion as one of the only formidable players on the map. 

It would totally be Littlefinger's MO to secretly fund these propaganda plays. Oh, and of course Ned Stark is made out to look like a buffoon because that is exactly how Littlefinger viewed Ned...as some dumb hick who happened to be born with the right last name. A George W. Bush type, if you will.

This has Littlefinger written all over it. 

 

[Technofire]

Was anybody shocked by how much those people cared about the politic in Westeros ? For me the people in Braavos don't give a crap about what is happening in King's Landing, or at least not to the point of writing plays about it. 

[Prince of Dragonstone]

24 minutes ago, Technofire said:

Was anybody shocked by how much those people cared about the politic in Westeros ? For me the people in Braavos don't give a crap about what is happening in King's Landing, or at least not to the point of writing plays about it. 

The most famous country in the world is being torn asunder by a brutal civil war that threatens to destroy the very fabric of its society. I think the whole world is probably watching whats going on in Westeros right now. 

[Lordsteve666]

I would not be in the least bit surprised if the whole troupe thing is a massive set up by the FM to test Arya.

They set her a target with a troupe of mumers who just happen to be making a play about the execution of her father? That's a bit odd for something happening in Braavos of all places.
I wonder if the poison she has is fake and the real test is if she'll react to the very personal nature of what she witnesses. You can't be No one if you get upset by seeing a play about events in your past life.

Just an alternative slant on things. 

[Patrick Byrne]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 9:02 PM, Pies are coming said:

But... if she deserts because of the Troupe, what was the point of her trying to join the Faceless Men? She hasn't learned anything from them so far, other than receiving hits and cleaning dead bodies

If Arya learned anything from the Faceless men, she has learned the art self control, an attribute that she noticeably lacked in her previous life as a highborn little girl.  She learned its value during her stint as Roose/Tywin's cupbearer, but didn't master herself enough to fool them completely.  It seems that now she has.  Not to mention, all those hits built upon her physical training from Syrio and the Hound, such that I would now qualify her as a grade-A ass-kicker.  Girl power!

I agree that is it unclear what the value of her training might be in the future.  She spent all this time training to be an assassin, but what good will that do her if she goes back to Westeros to help fight against the army of the undead?  Perhaps she has some other role to play in the wars to come, but who knows for sure.

[hallam]

5 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I wonder if Arya reacted the way she reacted to the theatre because it was emotional to "see" her father and sister again or because  they twisted the story so much from what really happened (although I suppose that most people see it like that, excluding the Northerns)?

Why are the FM investing so much time in her anyway? They must have figured out early on that she wouldn't be one of them and Jaqu'n confirms it in this episode.

The reason the show caused the reaction really doesn't matter, she still cares about her family either way.

1 hour ago, Lordsteve666 said:

I would not be in the least bit surprised if the whole troupe thing is a massive set up by the FM to test Arya.

They set her a target with a troupe of mumers who just happen to be making a play about the execution of her father? That's a bit odd for something happening in Braavos of all places.
I wonder if the poison she has is fake and the real test is if she'll react to the very personal nature of what she witnesses. You can't be No one if you get upset by seeing a play about events in your past life.

Just an alternative slant on things. 

Possibly to test or maybe to show her that she really isn't one of them.

Maybe what they really want is for her to kill off one particular name on her list for them.

[Pies are coming]

3 hours ago, Patrick Byrne said:

I agree that is it unclear what the value of her training might be in the future.  She spent all this time training to be an assassin, but what good will that do her if she goes back to Westeros to help fight against the army of the undead?  Perhaps she has some other role to play in the wars to come, but who knows for sure.

True, but isn't that the case with most characters? We have years of intrigue, plotting and men killing men. But the end-game is zombie apocalypsys.

2 hours ago, hallam said:

Why are the FM investing so much time in her anyway? They must have figured out early on that she wouldn't be one of them and Jaqu'n confirms it in this episode.

The reason the show caused the reaction really doesn't matter, she still cares about her family either way.

Possibly to test or maybe to show her that she really isn't one of them.

Maybe what they really want is for her to kill off one particular name on her list for them.

Arya comes with a decent set of skills, though: she's literate, she knows how both the upper and lower classes of Westeros work, has received water dancer training, has proven survival skills, is perfectly capable of murder and probably a few other things I'm forgetting. So, if they can convert her, she can be a great asset for the FM

[WinterCloak]

8 hours ago, Technofire said:

Was anybody shocked by how much those people cared about the politic in Westeros ? For me the people in Braavos don't give a crap about what is happening in King's Landing, or at least not to the point of writing plays about it. 

Like how some people know so little about what's happening in other countries in our world? Some people don't care because they don't think it affects them. Others don't care because they just don't, they're just ignorant. Others may take an interest only to make themselves feel superior for not having those woes. 

There will always be those who care/take an interest. Do I find it shocking that a sizeable portion of a population doesn't care about a devastating war/genocide? No.

[GeorgeIAF]

Could it be actually Cersei who paid for Lady Crane's death ? She said to Qyburn in an earlier episode that she wants those who make fun of her dead. Maybe Qyburn's birds told him about the Theatre Troupe and so on and we know that hiring a FM is not cheap, i don't think it was the young actress who hired them, i don't think she had the money. 

Maybe Arya will learn that Cersei hired them, and this will be another reason to have her at the top of her list. 

[Smoke317]

I don't think it's only money that the FM will accept as payment. Or a certain amount. What if you are willing to give your own life and donate your face to them to put a hit on someone. I think that's the ultimate payment one could offer and I think they'd accept it.  And as far as the Bravosi caring about what's happening in other countries, it's a spoof of Westeros. So they're making fun of the Westerosi and their political scheming and what not.  

It is quite interesting to guess what this 2nd rate actress could have offered them to kill the older actress.  Also could this all be a test by Jaq'en and he may actually be expecting for Arya to kill the younger actress and take her place in the troupe to ultimately do the hit later on the Lord of the Twins?  But first she must kill the waif. The waif is actually the one who is not showing herself to be a true FM. Because everything she does against Arya seems personal. So maybe once Arya kills the waif and the young actress, Jaq'en will find her in the Riverlands and tell her that she has graduated and her first true mission is to kill Walder Frey.  This is pretty damn crackpot. Lol. I actually hope Arya frees herself of the FM and gets to return to Winterfell. 

[Smoke317]

29 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Could it be actually Cersei who paid for Lady Crane's death ? She said to Qyburn in an earlier episode that she wants those who make fun of her dead. Maybe Qyburn's birds told him about the Theatre Troupe and so on and we know that hiring a FM is not cheap, i don't think it was the young actress who hired them, i don't think she had the money. 

Maybe Arya will learn that Cersei hired them, and this will be another reason to have her at the top of her list. 

I don't think Cersei can actually afford a FM at the moment either. Remember Tywin told her that the gold from the Casterly Rock mines dried up a while ago. They're in debt to the iron bank. 

[House Cambodia]

3 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I don't think Cersei can actually afford a FM at the moment either. Remember Tywin told her that the gold from the Casterly Rock mines dried up a while ago. They're in debt to the iron bank. 

The show doesn't seem deterred by such plot weaknesses. I think the idea has a lot of merit.

[RedShirt47]

15 hours ago, Prince of Dragonstone said:

...I wonder if Littlefinger had anything to do with planting the idea in the smallfolk's heads that Tyrion is a "treacherous little monster"... 

 

I think it has more to do with the Purple Wedding and Tywin's killing. The play can have the same "villain" right through. I imagine that the play will do The Red Wedding, The Purple Wedding, Red Viper Vs The Mountain and Tyrion's escape and Tywin's killing. They will probably have Tyrion plan The Red Wedding too just to keep him as baddie.

Not sure how they'll end the play, they need a happy ending, maybe Cersei kills him?

[RedShirt47]

14 hours ago, Patrick Byrne said:

If Arya learned anything from the Faceless men

 

Wouldn't it be somewhat ironic if what Arya learnt from the FM was actually to be Arya Stark. Since she left King's Landing she has been Arry, Weasel, Nymeria/Nan, Cat of the Canals amongst others. She hasn't been Arya Stark properly for a very long time. Perhaps by trying to become No-One she actually rediscovers who she actually is.

 

[Nerevanin]

6 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Could it be actually Cersei who paid for Lady Crane's death ? She said to Qyburn in an earlier episode that she wants those who make fun of her dead. Maybe Qyburn's birds told him about the Theatre Troupe and so on and we know that hiring a FM is not cheap, i don't think it was the young actress who hired them, i don't think she had the money. 

Maybe Arya will learn that Cersei hired them, and this will be another reason to have her at the top of her list. 

I don't know but I'd say that in the play Cersei (and Joffrey) is portrayed as a heroine, not as villain. On the other hand, the villans are Tyrion (who Cersei hates) and Ned (who almost ended her reign). So I'd say that to an extent the play rather celebrates Cersei instead of mocking her.