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daemonTheBlack

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1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

They are first cousins who have a very close brother/sister kind of bond.  I'm not sure how you think it *wouldn't* be at least a tad creepy if they ended up together? 

Well, yeah ok, I didn't realize you meant they were a couple! If as a couple, creepy isn't a strong enough word!

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1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said:

 

I agree that it would be peculiar.  BUT there's been a lot of time and a lot of shit that's happened since they last saw each other.  I think if GRRM does still go that way I have faith it would be done well and not incesty.

Yeah, no. They were raised as siblings and he last saw her as a what 10 year old girl? Uh uh, no way it can be done that isn't "incesty".

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Just now, dbunting said:

Yeah, no. They were raised as siblings and he last saw her as a what 10 year old girl? Uh uh, no way it can be done that isn't "incesty".

I guess it also depends on if you are talking about "show" Arya or "book" Arya.  As you said, she's only 11 years old in the books, and was 8-9 years old last time she saw Jon.  There is absolutely zero chance IMO that there will be a relationship.

The show could obviously pull it off it they wanted to go that route, but with all the major plot points being the same between the mediums (if we still believe this), then it won't happen in the show either.

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32 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

I guess it also depends on if you are talking about "show" Arya or "book" Arya.  As you said, she's only 11 years old in the books, and was 8-9 years old last time she saw Jon.  There is absolutely zero chance IMO that there will be a relationship.

The show could obviously pull it off it they wanted to go that route, but with all the major plot points being the same between the mediums (if we still believe this), then it won't happen in the show either.

Wow, zero chance huh. Hey GRRM! Seriously, even though that relationship was exactly what GRRM wanted to do in the beginning? And for all we know, still plans to do. Arya is far more mature in the books and has experienced things girls her age have never even seen. 

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Besides the whole incest as cousins and growing up as brother/sister, the whole Jon+Sansa/Arya thing needs to go away. Why are people looking or this? The show has damaged the female characters enough, perhaps they shouldn't also be required to have romance to complete their character arcs. Their individual stories can come to conclusions without husbands being necessary to validate their existence.

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On May 31, 2016 at 6:46 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

I agree with you about Cersei.  I think Sansa will meet with Northern Houses to join them to her cause.  I think Jaqen is setting up Arya to kill the Waif.  The Waif's desires to kill Arya are out-of-line with the FM, IMO.  I have no idea what more could concern Tyrion other than Ironborn landing on their shores or something that makes him think Dany won't return. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the "North" will not be joining any cause led by Sansa.   Her taking control is quite interesting though. Could she actually take the Vale forces from Littlefinger?  Would he have to die first because nobody has Robin's ear like Uncle Peter. But I doubt Robin is with the army. So could Sansa bypass LF and go straight to Bronze Yohn???  I think that's the Sansa her fans have been dreaming about because from what we've seen so far in the series Sansa hasn't shown the ability to take control or lead a force or territory of people. Or is this just a play on words and Sansa "taking control" is just her taking control of her own "fate/army" and turning to Littlefinger because the North chose Jon???

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11 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

I guess it also depends on if you are talking about "show" Arya or "book" Arya.  As you said, she's only 11 years old in the books, and was 8-9 years old last time she saw Jon.  There is absolutely zero chance IMO that there will be a relationship.

The show could obviously pull it off it they wanted to go that route, but with all the major plot points being the same between the mediums (if we still believe this), then it won't happen in the show either.

But you're forgetting that while Arya is 11 in the books Jon is what 15 or 16?  They were both still kids and actually still are looking at it from our current perspective.  So the age gap is not that great and this was GRRM's original desire in his initial story outline. Jon and Arya were always the closest as were their wolves. I can see an odd twist where they may not get together themselves but their wolves will and be the alpha male and female of Nym's Wolfpack...

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14 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Wow, zero chance huh. Hey GRRM! Seriously, even though that relationship was exactly what GRRM wanted to do in the beginning? And for all we know, still plans to do. Arya is far more mature in the books and has experienced things girls her age have never even seen. 

 

2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

But you're forgetting that while Arya is 11 in the books Jon is what 15 or 16?  They were both still kids and actually still are looking at it from our current perspective.  So the age gap is not that great and this was GRRM's original desire in his initial story outline. Jon and Arya were always the closest as were their wolves. I can see an odd twist where they may not get together themselves but their wolves will and be the alpha male and female of Nym's Wolfpack...

George wanted to do that in the books when he still had the 5-year gap storyline in place, which would put both Jon and Arya in the mid-to-late teens by the end of ADOS.  GRRM is also on record by saying that he wished he made the kids a little older from the outset, simply because with no gap planned anymore, it made them all a little younger then anticipated.

So no, a 15 year old Jon Snow and an 11 year old Arya Stark is not going to happen.  I see them reuniting and keeping a budding brother/sister thing, but relationship-wise, I just don't see it.  Arya (to our knowledge) hasn't even had her first period yet.

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1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

 

George wanted to do that in the books when he still had the 5-year gap storyline in place, which would put both Jon and Arya in the mid-to-late teens by the end of ADOS.  GRRM is also on record by saying that he wished he made the kids a little older from the outset, simply because with no gap planned anymore, it made them all a little younger then anticipated.

So no, a 15 year old Jon Snow and an 11 year old Arya Stark is not going to happen.  I see them reuniting and keeping a budding brother/sister thing, but relationship-wise, I just don't see it.  Arya (to our knowledge) hasn't even had her first period yet.

How do you know what he wanted to do after getting rid of the 5 year gap - a decision he made later on, way after the original ending he is saying he will stick too?  Despite no 5 year gap he said he will plow on as you can see in the slightly sexualized Mercy chapter and the comment about a 12 year old conquering the world. Have you see what grrm imagines Lyanna looks like at 14? Far more mature and his whole child-women thing. 

It's interesting if they incorporate Arya's 'maidenhood in the show now that she has completely passed book!arya. Arya was close to, if not already, 12 in the Mercy chapter. Dany was married at 13. So grrm has no issue with ages judging by his writing.

Also:  “[GRRM] thinks Arya is "older than some of the 40-year-olds in the book”, what with all she’s gone through.“ 

Also with fake!arya marrying Ramsey: Jon's thoughts went straight to her bedding and hoped Arya fought him. The idea of ramsey marrying a girl that young.... not much of a problem it seems. 

Anyway by the time Arya returns to Westeros she will be a maiden. In the show she will be the last Stark maiden. Her direwolf Nymeria kills anyone wolf that tries to mount her. - I think that might be a correlation to Arya not being biologically ready to mate yet. However it is hinted in the Mercy chapter that Nymeria is heading North (where Ghost is, or beyond the Wall where more direwolves live). With Summer dead, Winter is here and also a time for wolves to mate. Ghost has a connection with Nymeria and senses what she is up to. Even Jon is aware on some level.

Jon is warging Ghost while he sleeps.

"In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister’s pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself." - Jon I, ADWD

 

 

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14 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

How do you know what he wanted to do after getting rid of the 5 year gap - a decision he made later on, way after the original ending he is saying he will stick too?  Despite no 5 year gap he said he will plow on as you can see in the slightly sexualized Mercy chapter and the comment about a 12 year old conquering the world. Have you see what grrm imagines Lyanna looks like at 14? Far more mature and his whole child-women thing. 

It's interesting if they incorporate Arya's 'maidenhood in the show now that she has completely passed book!arya. Arya was close to, if not already, 12 in the Mercy chapter. Dany was married at 13. So grrm has no issue with ages judging by his writing.

Also:  “[GRRM] thinks Arya is "older than some of the 40-year-olds in the book”, what with all she’s gone through.“ 

Also with fake!arya marrying Ramsey: Jon's thoughts went straight to her bedding and hoped Arya fought him. The idea of ramsey marrying a girl that young.... not much of a problem it seems. 

Anyway by the time Arya returns to Westeros she will be a maiden. In the show she will be the last Stark maiden. Her direwolf Nymeria kills anyone wolf that tries to mount her. - I think that might be a correlation to Arya not being biologically ready to mate yet. However it is hinted in the Mercy chapter that Nymeria is heading North (where Ghost is, or beyond the Wall where more direwolves live). With Summer dead, Winter is here and also a time for wolves to mate. Ghost has a connection with Nymeria and senses what she is up to. Even Jon is aware on some level.

Jon is warging Ghost while he sleeps.

"In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister’s pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself." - Jon I, ADWD

 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. :)

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3 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. :)

Yup. And just wait for the books to confirm things either way. Hopefully with the show ruining his big reveals that might spur him on to write faster.  Let's hope! 

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1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

How do you know what he wanted to do after getting rid of the 5 year gap - a decision he made later on, way after the original ending he is saying he will stick too?  Despite no 5 year gap he said he will plow on as you can see in the slightly sexualized Mercy chapter and the comment about a 12 year old conquering the world. Have you see what grrm imagines Lyanna looks like at 14? Far more mature and his whole child-women thing. 

It's interesting if they incorporate Arya's 'maidenhood in the show now that she has completely passed book!arya. Arya was close to, if not already, 12 in the Mercy chapter. Dany was married at 13. So grrm has no issue with ages judging by his writing.

Also:  “[GRRM] thinks Arya is "older than some of the 40-year-olds in the book”, what with all she’s gone through.“ 

Also with fake!arya marrying Ramsey: Jon's thoughts went straight to her bedding and hoped Arya fought him. The idea of ramsey marrying a girl that young.... not much of a problem it seems. 

Anyway by the time Arya returns to Westeros she will be a maiden. In the show she will be the last Stark maiden. Her direwolf Nymeria kills anyone wolf that tries to mount her. - I think that might be a correlation to Arya not being biologically ready to mate yet. However it is hinted in the Mercy chapter that Nymeria is heading North (where Ghost is, or beyond the Wall where more direwolves live). With Summer dead, Winter is here and also a time for wolves to mate. Ghost has a connection with Nymeria and senses what she is up to. Even Jon is aware on some level.

Jon is warging Ghost while he sleeps.

"In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister’s pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself." - Jon I, ADWD

 

 

Wow. Interesting stuff there. Does Nym really kill any wolf that tries to mount her?  I can't remember that. If so it definitely seems like she's waiting for Ghost. Lol. 

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4 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Yup. And just wait for the books to confirm things either way. Hopefully with the show ruining his big reveals that might spur him on to write faster.  Let's hope! 

Only if the show goes a different direction.  GRRM has said that he loses interest in writing a story when he reaches the point where he knows where it is going.  My suspicion is that this is what has happened to WoW, and will be far worse with DoS. 

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On 31.5.2016 at 2:51 AM, Taylor Swift said:

June 12: “No One”: Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern.

 

I think we'll get a petty version of the siege of mereen. Other armies will approach and in episode ten the deus ex machina Daeny will show up on drogon and with 20 million good men aka "bloodrider" in her back. We won't see the fight but another mass scene and one more Nuremberg speech of the queen.

Just my guess.

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On 6/2/2016 at 3:36 PM, Protector of Stokeworth said:

I think they build up to the two big things happening in E9 - Battle at Winterfell and Cerseis Trial. I believe she will blow up the sept with wildfire during the Trial by Combat

for what Jonathan Pryce said in an interview apparently he is expecting her to turn up for her trial but doesn't and something dramatic happens; of course if this is true then the Clegagne bowl won't happen or at least won't be connected with Cersei's trial but we shall see...

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On 6/2/2016 at 10:36 AM, Protector of Stokeworth said:

I think they build up to the two big things happening in E9 - Battle at Winterfell and Cerseis Trial. I believe she will blow up the sept with wildfire during the Trial by Combat

I thought they were devoting the entire E9 to the battle. Oh well, I would love to see the sept blow up with wildfire after the Mountain smashes some Faith Militant heads. Then Cersei can die a horrible death, hopefully at the hands of Jaime.

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Preview looks good.  Gonna be some serious action in KL, Riverlands, Braavos and maybe Meereen.  I'm most looking forward to the Hound fucking up the Brotherhood.   

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