Johnimus Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I'm just wondering because he is the regent of the Iron Throne. Tommen Baratheon is what, 12 or 14 years old in the show? Power is exercised for him through his regent. He does not have the power to strip a Kingsguard of his cloak without his council's say so. This was established in the show in Season 1, where it was the council, not Joffrey, who sacked Barristan. So, by the show's own canon (leaving the books out of it), either Tommen has dispensed with his regency early, or Ser Kevan Lannister, whose antipathy to the faith was just established two episodes ago, has now become a tremendous zealot who is offended in the sight of gods and men by the actions of Ser Jaime Lannister - actions he himself endorsed just two episodes ago. Can anyone help? (I'm a show fan, by the way. It's nowhere near as good as the books, but it's nowhere near as bad as some here allege. This is just a particularly perplexing twist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Unfortunately I think the show does not care about precedents set earlier on in the tv series (or has been quite sloppy) at this point. Aside from Kevan being physically present in the show (and at a bare minimum) they have cut out most of what he says and does. I will not spoil it because you are a show fan, but unless they plan on giving Kevan a little bit more air time on the show I do not think he has much of an actual role to play (despite being freaking Lord Regent). In my honest opinion, I believe the only thing the producers wanted you to get from that particular scene was that Jamie was booted from the Kingsguard & the capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnimus Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 No, I've read the books - I like Kevan in the books, and I enjoyed his conversation at the end of ADWD. I'm just judging the show on it's own universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 as we saw when Ned was executed in season one the king still has the command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Matthis Light Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Is he a Zealot, from what I seen in the show on how he views his son, and wants him back I'd say no. But then again i'm not really sure whats the deal with the people in charge of KL. Why is the faith treating them like they don't believe in the FotS?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Emperor of Yi Ti Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 12 hours ago, Johnimus said: I'm just wondering because he is the regent of the Iron Throne. Tommen Baratheon is what, 12 or 14 years old in the show? Power is exercised for him through his regent. He does not have the power to strip a Kingsguard of his cloak without his council's say so. This was established in the show in Season 1, where it was the council, not Joffrey, who sacked Barristan. So, by the show's own canon (leaving the books out of it), either Tommen has dispensed with his regency early, or Ser Kevan Lannister, whose antipathy to the faith was just established two episodes ago, has now become a tremendous zealot who is offended in the sight of gods and men by the actions of Ser Jaime Lannister - actions he himself endorsed just two episodes ago. Can anyone help? (I'm a show fan, by the way. It's nowhere near as good as the books, but it's nowhere near as bad as some here allege. This is just a particularly perplexing twist). well his son is one of them so he is conflicted. And now the king is all rah rah on them too. Ultimately the show version is being portrayed as fairly weak, a son of his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke317 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't think he's a zealot. I just think he knows he's in a good position as hand and why rock the boat or he could be the next booted... Plus he knows Cersei and Jamie are up to no good. Better for Jamie to lead house Lannister like his brother Tywin always wanted. Plus you split up the dynamic duo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor_the_Blessed Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 He wanted Jaime and Cersei out of King's Landing well before all of this conflict started with the Faith. I think he's using this as an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion's Third Wife Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't think he's King Regent anymore. Only the Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I think he is just scared for his son. They made a point to show Lancel with his look of bewilderment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Probably a combination of all of the above: his son is with them, he sees the Faith as a means of restoring some sort of order, he wants a little bit of power and distrusts Cersei and Jaime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middle-aged griff Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Seems like a really short-sighted decision if Kevan just wants Jaime out of Kings Landing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but removing Jaime from the Kingsguard makes him Lord of Casterly Rock, whereas before Kevan (and ostensibly HIS heirs) were set to inherit the Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 hours ago, middle-aged griff said: Seems like a really short-sighted decision if Kevan just wants Jaime out of Kings Landing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but removing Jaime from the Kingsguard makes him Lord of Casterly Rock, whereas before Kevan (and ostensibly HIS heirs) were set to inherit the Rock. Watching the scene it's never clearly stated that Jaime would no longer be a member of the Kingsguard. Tommen only states that by attacking the Faith he's no longer fit to "serve as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard". Tommen later goes on to say that Jaime has served his house and his king faithfully for many years and that he would continue to serve, just not at King's Landing. It is odd though that when Jaime is first seen taking off his breastplate, he's not wearing a white cloak, so perhaps he really no longer has his membership card for KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middle-aged griff Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, Iona said: Watching the scene it's never clearly stated that Jaime would no longer be a member of the Kingsguard. Tommen only states that by attacking the Faith he's no longer fit to "serve as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard". Tommen later goes on to say that Jaime has served his house and his king faithfully for many years and that he would continue to serve, just not at King's Landing. It is odd though that when Jaime is first seen taking off his breastplate, he's not wearing a white cloak, so perhaps he really no longer has his membership card for KG. It is a bit vague. But, I think I noticed in the previews that when Jaime is in the Riverlands with the Blackfish, he appears to be wearing Lannister armor without a white cloak. That could just be for effect since he's leading the Lannister army, I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 1 hour ago, middle-aged griff said: It is a bit vague. But, I think I noticed in the previews that when Jaime is in the Riverlands with the Blackfish, he appears to be wearing Lannister armor without a white cloak. That could just be for effect since he's leading the Lannister army, I suppose Is really strange, because the only time we saw a KG removing his armor in front of the Iron Throne is when Joffrey sacked Ser Barristan. So, the first impression is that Jaime is not longer a KG. I get what you said about the cloak, but Jaime wore Lannister armor back in season 1 when he commanded the Lannister army under Tywin's orders. And, if Jaime is removed from the KG, does that mean he is the now Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West? He is Tywin's eldest (not-regidice/patricide-guilty) son. The scene was confusing a very vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 4 hours ago, middle-aged griff said: Seems like a really short-sighted decision if Kevan just wants Jaime out of Kings Landing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but removing Jaime from the Kingsguard makes him Lord of Casterly Rock, whereas before Kevan (and ostensibly HIS heirs) were set to inherit the Rock. I would imagine it does make Jaime Lord of Casterly Rock now - one of the most powerful lords in Westeros - but Kevan was never acting Lord of the Rock. After Tywin died and Tyrion was convicted of regicide, Cersei became Lady of Casterly Rock, and it would have gone to Tommen upon her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 On May 30, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Johnimus said: I'm just wondering because he is the regent of the Iron Throne. Tommen Baratheon is what, 12 or 14 years old in the show? Power is exercised for him through his regent. He does not have the power to strip a Kingsguard of his cloak without his council's say so. This was established in the show in Season 1, where it was the council, not Joffrey, who sacked Barristan. So, by the show's own canon (leaving the books out of it), either Tommen has dispensed with his regency early, or Ser Kevan Lannister, whose antipathy to the faith was just established two episodes ago, has now become a tremendous zealot who is offended in the sight of gods and men by the actions of Ser Jaime Lannister - actions he himself endorsed just two episodes ago. Can anyone help? (I'm a show fan, by the way. It's nowhere near as good as the books, but it's nowhere near as bad as some here allege. This is just a particularly perplexing twist). well caught. This is a huge plot hole. Even given only the canon of the tv show Kevan has every reason to hate the Sparrows. He has pretty much been left without an heir and they went out of their way to establish this plot point. I would say, however, that after getting married you can assume Tommen is a man grown by the edicts of Westeros and Kevan is Hand and not regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 hours ago, WolfgangII said: Is really strange, because the only time we saw a KG removing his armor in front of the Iron Throne is when Joffrey sacked Ser Barristan. So, the first impression is that Jaime is not longer a KG. I get what you said about the cloak, but Jaime wore Lannister armor back in season 1 when he commanded the Lannister army under Tywin's orders. And, if Jaime is removed from the KG, does that mean he is the now Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West? He is Tywin's eldest (not-regidice/patricide-guilty) son. The scene was confusing a very vague. I suspect that if Jamie has be removed from the Kingguard by Tommen then Casterly Rock and all its lands and incomes would be his. The big problem is that the Lannisters power was all derived from Tywin. By all accounts his father was a weak an that was mocked. Twin consolidated power through fear by destroying two houses and being a larger than life tough guy unlike the fierce northern loyalty that Ned had from 8000 years of Stark rule. So if Jamie is now Jamie Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock (which would make sense given his interaction with Mace Tyrell) he is going to have to do something to to win the westernmen over to accept his rule. He doesn't have the cleanest reputation. He was treated with respect and fear mostly because he was Tywin's son and with Tywin dead he will need to do something about that. Conversely, it is possible that Tommen could strip Jamie of his right to Casterly Rock and claim it for himself and let his mother rule in his stead thus passing both the iron throne and the westerlands to his eventual child with margery which would, basically Make Mace Tyrell incredibly powerful as he will have sired a dynasty that holds the Stormlands through the Baratheons, The West through the Lannisters, High Garden by birth and the iron throne through his grandfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 1 hour ago, YOVMO said: I suspect that if Jamie has be removed from the Kingguard by Tommen then Casterly Rock and all its lands and incomes would be his. The big problem is that the Lannisters power was all derived from Tywin. By all accounts his father was a weak an that was mocked. Twin consolidated power through fear by destroying two houses and being a larger than life tough guy unlike the fierce northern loyalty that Ned had from 8000 years of Stark rule. So if Jamie is now Jamie Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock (which would make sense given his interaction with Mace Tyrell) he is going to have to do something to to win the westernmen over to accept his rule. He doesn't have the cleanest reputation. He was treated with respect and fear mostly because he was Tywin's son and with Tywin dead he will need to do something about that. Conversely, it is possible that Tommen could strip Jamie of his right to Casterly Rock and claim it for himself and let his mother rule in his stead thus passing both the iron throne and the westerlands to his eventual child with margery which would, basically Make Mace Tyrell incredibly powerful as he will have sired a dynasty that holds the Stormlands through the Baratheons, The West through the Lannisters, High Garden by birth and the iron throne through his grandfather It seems logical, but I don't see the show addressing Tytos' reputation and Tommen's geopoliticals machinations. Although the show have used the "Rains of Castemere" and said (through LF or Roose, I don't remember) that a lot of Lannister power ended with Tywin, I don't think the show will explore Jaime's securing his position in the Westerlands plotline. If he is named Lord of Casterly Rock, we will expect to see him playing the Game of Thrones and affecting the balance in King's Landing (that's basically what Cercei told him. Use the army they just gave you), not struggling to restore Lannister name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, WolfgangII said: It seems logical, but I don't see the show addressing Tytos' reputation and Tommen's geopoliticals machinations. Although the show have used the "Rains of Castemere" and said (through LF or Roose, I don't remember) that a lot of Lannister power ended with Tywin, I don't think the show will explore Jaime's securing his position in the Westerlands plotline. If he is named Lord of Casterly Rock, we will expect to see him playing the Game of Thrones and affecting the balance in King's Landing (that's basically what Cercei told him. Use the army they just gave you), not struggling to restore Lannister name. I think they did briefly mention Tytos' shortcomings. and yes, LF, Roose Bolton have both mentioned that the bannisters without tywin have lost a lot of power. While we do not see Tommen's machinations we can assume that Mace and/or Queen of Thrones knew exactly the power they would consolidate with a child born of the king and queen. Tommen is also being controlled by the high sparrow now who does have an agenda. You are prob right about no jamie securing weterlands plot line in the show (I assume it will be in the book) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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