[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[43ry5274rg4ry3n]

2 hours ago, yakisikli123 said:

What should they tell them. Bran a cripple, Rickon child.... they are with wildlings (hated from other part),

for Jon it doesnst matter, he is like on drugs, doesnt know why he is there with them.

I dont think he wants his home back, and you want him fight for his nonbrothers nonsisters.

And if Bran wants to be king then he should come and fight.

They want support the powerful ones not Starks.

This episode shows us that the name Stark is dead, born of the name Targ, Jon SupBadTarg

 

LOL my thoughts exactly

Jon "the Junkie" Snow

[Gargarax]

30 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

@Gargarax

Seeing your avatar reminds how royaly shit and how much disservice they've done to Varys as a character. Urggh what a waste of a fantastic actor who is only there to service St. Tyrion and Firestarter. 

Yes ... I remember in S1 I was always excited when he was in a scene - now it's just like "Oh, yeah, he's there too. The punchline of every cock-jok Tyrion makes".

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

Yes ... I remember in S1 I was always excited when he was in a scene - now it's just like "Oh, yeah, he's there too. The punchline of every cock-jok Tyrion makes".

It's going to be great when Theon, Varys and Grey Worm can hook up.  Maybe they can start a band.  Or a support group.

[Gargarax]

46 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's going to be great when Theon, Varys and Grey Worm can hook up.  Maybe they can start a band.  Or a support group.

I'm convinced that this will come up. Theon will learn that in Essos even cockless men can lead. Who figured ... 

[legba11]

2 hours ago, Daenerys_Is_Coming said:

I'm curious as to why they waited so long to circle back around to AFFC territory? Was it budget constraints? Actor constraints? Lazy writing? Confused writing? It took me about 10 minutes to explain to someone that he was Catelyn's uncle to which she then said "Who's Catelyn"? 

 

When they were writing Season 5, they began with "Bad Pussy" as the central pillar and had to build a story around it.  There was no way they could wait to use that line...

[Drogo_1]

Sansa & Jon's recruiting...... - Where the hell is Melisandre and Ghost? They all left castle black together. Wouldn't having Ghost by his side help imprint the image of him as a son of Eddard Stark thus getting more volunteers? Why has no one tried to kill Jon for oathbreaking and leaving the NW? Why has no one asked about him dying and being re-animated? Why is no one talking more about the White Walker threat aside from Little Lady Mormont? WTF??????????????

[Banjo]

3 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

Maybe it was posted here and I missed it, but did you guys know one of the Riverlands massacre guys was Lem Lemoncloak? Like seriously, he is going around murdering people now?

 

If it hasn't been mentioned or discussed here is a link: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-6-lady-stoneheart-lemoncloak-brotherhood-without-banners-speculation-theory-a7068771.html

There is a theory that the brotherhood guys shown, including Lem, were not the ones who murdered the people

[Gargarax]

Posted this in the rating thread, but thought it belonged here as well, as it sums up for me what makes the show so bad:

"The thing is: Many critical voters can give rather specific reasons as to why they didn't like an episode. Positive ratings tend to stress the fact that they had fun watching the episode, enjoyed it, etc. There is nothing wrong with that, but enjoying something does not make it universally good - you're rating the experience rather than the quality of storytelling. I'm totally fine with that, and I don't get how anybody can be upset with people giving bad ratings - does this chance the experience you've had? I'm happy for everybody who enjoyed it even if I disliked it.

To give an example why I've given rather low rankings since S5 began:

Since Aristotle, people have being trying to figure out how to tell a good story. One basic rule could be this: Have interesting, effectful plot points. What are interesting, effectful plot points? Basically, they need to do three things: 1. They should be as surprising as possible, while 2. being a logical consequence of plot development up to that point (which seems like a contradiction, but that's why telling good stories ist hard) and 3. they should give you the impression that "This changes everything", i.e. they should open new possibilites for plot development.

The first three books as well as the first four seasons had many such plot points. Eddard Stark's death came as a big surprise, while being quite a logical consequence of what Joffrey is about, and it opened an incredible range of new plot developments. The same goes for plot points like the Red Wedding, Theon taking Winterfell, Oberyn's death, and many more. That was good storytelling because it had a lot of well constructed plot points.

S4 and S5, however, had very, very few of those. In most plot points, only one or two of the three criteria are met. Many are either completely unsurprising (e.g. Dany winning command of the Dothraki), poorly unmotivated (e.g. Euron wanting to murder Theon) or they change nothing (e.g. the Sandsnakes killing Doran). Combined with virtually hundreds of small plotholes (some of which, I agree, only readers will notice), this makes S5 and S6 pretty bad storytelling, for both Aristotle and me. I've enjoyed some scenes, gave E7 a 6/10 for that reason alone, but mostly, I rate low because the weaknesses are more than I think a show like that should make."

[lorienelf]

15 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

I see that you have 2 posts,  I wonder if your other one could be as excellent as this one! 

Long time lurker here! But boy, this show just cries out for as many critical voices as possible. Thank the gods for the ranters and ravers!

[dornishdame]

While I think that this episode did improve on re-watching (mostly because in knowing I wasn't getting The Broken Men speech from the books, I wasn't constantly wishing for Ian McShane to start it and then getting disappointed when he didn't) there was a lot that didn't sit well with me:

1) Cersei's desperation for a Tyrell alliance doesn't seem right.  Even with the scene in which Jaime and Cersei gate-crashed the Small Council meeting a few episodes ago.  Her admitting she was wrong is a bit weird, even for her.  

2) Why have none of the Northern lords questioned Jon - whom they have established as being widely known as LC of the NW - as to why he is involving himself in politics, which goes against his vow?  While the rest of Westeros mostly considers the NW to be a bit of a joke, the North does not.  While they have kept the antagonisms towards the wildlings realistic, they have NOT addressed this issue.  Do they consider Jon to be on sabbatical or something? Has he explained to them that he died?  This isn't clear to the viewer.  And while Edd seemed in 6x05 to have accepted Jon's departure (perhaps as he mentioned the WW in the War Council or spoke of 'while he was gone' - implying a return?) before that he certainly believed Jon had committed to the NW while alive - not interrupted by death.  I did like that Lyanna Mormont questioned Sansa's allegiance, but there was no mention of Jon and what his intentions were. 

3) Arya - there was so much in that scene that was out of character - and where was Needle?

[lorienelf]

16 hours ago, The Boastful Knight said:

You know, if I had my willy chopped off (as Alfie Allen so eloquently put it in an interview) at such a young age, I would seriously contemplate suicide. On top of that, Theon also had to endure extensive physical and psychological torture. So killing himself is more than a viable option at this point for him I think. So I agree that she shouldn't tell him that. But we say that with our 21st century knowledge. The ironborn are far less nuanced about such things, and frankly, I'd be surprised if Yara tried any other way than this "tough love", because it probably is the only way she knows.

Far be it from me to defend the show, but I think you misunderstand the intent here. Sexuality, for most men, no matter his orientation, is an integral part of his identity. Really it is just an important aspect of any of our lives. What happened to Theon would be crushing for a normal man. But for Theon, it is especially damaging, because his relations with women was the only part of his life he had any control over. Women liked him in bed (or at least he deluded himself to believe they did), and he liked them too. That's what Ramsay took away from him, beyond his ability to even have sex. So being in a brothel, surrounded by half-naked women, would be really freaking uncomfortable for him. So I take no issue with that aspect of a scene. Because it actually has a point about Theon's character.

Now the rest is just the usual garbage. Yara's a lesbian all of a sudden and she and Theon are Victarion in disguise, but without all of the conext in the books, they don't really have any motivation to just go to Dany. I mean Euron is the one who's gonna have the thousand ships, remember? So I can't help but think that this is a futile endeavor on their part. But since they're the "good guys", I bet D&D are gonna find a convoluted way for it to work.

I agree with a lot of this, but it's the framing that's the problem in the end. They way it's portrayed is as a "therapy" (as D&D said in the outside the episode) that is actually effective and "just what he needed", and that's a very, very screwed up perspective that they are endorsing there. I think it's very important to show Theon's PTSD, and although sticking him in a sex slave brothel is a little lacking in subtlety, it obviously shows that his life has completely changed since his trauma...(Honeslty though, I'd probably still have a problem with the scene though, even without what Yara says, because it does seem to invite us to laugh...There's practically a motif this season of eunuch jokes). But it's Yara's verbal abuse that comes after the setting of the this scene that are the real problem. There were waaaaaay better ways of showing that Theon might realistically be suicidal than having his sister tell him to snap out of it or just do it already. And on top of that having it framed as good advice that would actually get through to him and help him? That is a very unrealistic reaction (even for someone who is Iron Born) and has very damaging implications. I feel like if they had ever read Theon's ADWD chapters they'd have a better example of what trauma aftermath looks like...

[SerMixalot]

Boy am I glad I no longer watch the Inside the Crapisodes.  I don't think my blood pressure could stand it.

[tormund's beard]

8 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

It's going to be great when Theon, Varys and Grey Worm can hook up.  Maybe they can start a band.  Or a support group.

15 minutes of dick jokes

[SerMixalot]

1 minute ago, tormund's beard said:

15 minutes of dick jokes

St Tyrion is a big enough dick for all of them

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

http://screenrant.com/game-thrones-sansa-letter-littlefinger/?utm_source=SR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=SR-FB-P&view=list

 

LMAO.

So two episodes after telling LF to suck it now she's asking for his help possibly?!

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahaha

Who is writing this shit?

[Ser Patrick]

I know this might be a small thing, but I didn't like it when Lord Glover said the Boltons helped him take back Deepwood Motte, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.  

[Tijgy]

8 hours ago, lorienelf said:

I agree with a lot of this, but it's the framing that's the problem in the end. They way it's portrayed is as a "therapy" (as D&D said in the outside the episode) that is actually effective and "just what he needed", and that's a very, very screwed up perspective that they are endorsing there. I think it's very important to show Theon's PTSD, and although sticking him in a sex slave brothel is a little lacking in subtlety, it obviously shows that his life has completely changed since his trauma...(Honeslty though, I'd probably still have a problem with the scene though, even without what Yara says, because it does seem to invite us to laugh...There's practically a motif this season of eunuch jokes). But it's Yara's verbal abuse that comes after the setting of the this scene that are the real problem. There were waaaaaay better ways of showing that Theon might realistically be suicidal than having his sister tell him to snap out of it or just do it already. And on top of that having it framed as good advice that would actually get through to him and help him? That is a very unrealistic reaction (even for someone who is Iron Born) and has very damaging implications. I feel like if they had ever read Theon's ADWD chapters they'd have a better example of what trauma aftermath looks like...

It is different from what they did in season 1

 

[rayarts]

10 hours ago, Gargarax said:

 

Since Aristotle, people have being trying to figure out how to tell a good story. One basic rule could be this: Have interesting, effectful plot points. What are interesting, effectful plot points? Basically, they need to do three things: 1. They should be as surprising as possible, while 2. being a logical consequence of plot development up to that point (which seems like a contradiction, but that's why telling good stories ist hard) and 3. they should give you the impression that "This changes everything", i.e. they should open new possibilites for plot development.

The first three books as well as the first four seasons had many such plot points. Eddard Stark's death came as a big surprise, while being quite a logical consequence of what Joffrey is about, and it opened an incredible range of new plot developments. The same goes for plot points like the Red Wedding, Theon taking Winterfell, Oberyn's death, and many more. That was good storytelling because it had a lot of well constructed plot points.

S4 and S5, however, had very, very few of those. In most plot points, only one or two of the three criteria are met. Many are either completely unsurprising (e.g. Dany winning command of the Dothraki), poorly unmotivated (e.g. Euron wanting to murder Theon) or they change nothing (e.g. the Sandsnakes killing Doran). 

Yeah, that's what I preach since the show went down the drain. It is NOT about comparing it to the books. It became all by itself because of the mentioned problems.

[rayarts]

2 hours ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said:

http://screenrant.com/game-thrones-sansa-letter-littlefinger/?utm_source=SR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=SR-FB-P&view=list

 

LMAO.

So two episodes after telling LF to suck it now she's asking for his help possibly?!

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahaha

Who is writing this shit?

Thx for the link. It is unsurprising, really (AS FOOKING EVERYTHING IS BY NOW). Who else would Sandra write to? Some ppl thought Blackfish - common, she sent Brienne there, why would she need to write him a letter now? Naah, this was such a normal Hollywoody thing to do, that it was totally obvious.

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, rayarts said:

Thx for the link. It is unsurprising, really (AS FOOKING EVERYTHING IS BY NOW). Who else would Sandra write to? Some ppl thought Blackfish - common, she sent Brienne there, why would she need to write him a letter now? Naah, this was such a normal Hollywoody thing to do, that it was totally obvious.

Yeah, nothing is surprising anymore, we could see this coming a mile away. Indeed, there's no point to Sandra at all, she's just there to give him what he wants. Battle of the Super Villains ahead. LF will win, Ramsay will die. Then at some point, way past his expiration date, LF will die, too.