Arya vs. the Waif

[Lady Shiera]

1 hour ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Also. Why would Arya take the old woman's face, then after stabbing fArya (Waif), pull off the old woman face to reveal Waif's face. Why not pull off the old woman's face to reveal Arya, and why would the old woman not kill waif with Needle? Arya is familiar with needle, and needle is important to her. Why use a letter opener when you have castle forged steel? Why would waif wander around the city wearing Arya's face after being stabbed? Why would waif even wear Arya's face to begin with? One would think that if Arya failed to poison the actress, there might be a hit on Arya, so....why wear a target on your head? 

I don't get it completely either but I can try to put some pieces together. From my point of view, it seems like Arya wants to succeed as a FM. I mean its obvious, she does this whole FM thing voluntarily and no one is forcing her. But deep down she is fighting her real self. The Waif represents her as a FM and Arya Stark represents all that she WANTS to leave behind but can't. The old woman doesn't fight back with Needle because Arya doesn't want to. She wants to beat herself. To stop suffering. To become No one. The resistance comes unconsiously. As to why the Waif wears Arya's face it's more likely the opposite. Arya wears the Waif's face because of a split personality kind of thing. A dilemma between what she clearly wants and what she can't run from as much as she tries. 

To be honest this whole manhunt thing is probably a dream. Or a nightmare in that case. She did went to bed the last time we really see her after all. 

[hallam]

3 hours ago, adamr said:

There's been that interview with Waif actress where she kinda spoiled that she knew about Jon's resurrection...

http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-arya-stark-faceless-men-2016-5

Most likely explanation is that Arya survives, kills the Waif, takes back her face and wears it round Jon.

[a black swan]

41 minutes ago, Lady Shiera said:

From my point of view, it seems like Arya wants to succeed as a FM. I mean its obvious, she does this whole FM thing voluntarily and no one is forcing her.

She wants to succeed so she can be strong enough to avenge her family. Maisie explained this in an interview after ep6 aired. Her assignment to kill Lady Crane, a very nice & innocent lady, so that a jealous spitfeful bitch can live her life? Nope. Arya is not capable of that. What she wants is linked to Arya Stark.

Arya failed right from the beginning when she kept Needle.

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The Waif represents her as a FM and Arya Stark represents all that she WANTS to leave behind but can't. The old woman doesn't fight back with Needle because Arya doesn't want to. She wants to beat herself. To stop suffering. To become No one. The resistance comes unconsiously. As to why the Waif wears Arya's face it's more likely the opposite. Arya wears the Waif's face because of a split personality kind of thing. A dilemma between what she clearly wants and what she can't run from as much as she tries.

You have this all backwards. Stopping her suffering is not her goal. Avenging her family is. I think what the Waif represents is the Arya that the FM will create: A weapon, heartless and without concious. The Arya we see is holding her back from becoming that monster.

Arya Stark can't be broken and used as someone's tool. She has agency and when she chose to not take Lady Crane's life - her path in life changed. Was she being tested? I think so. The version of the FM you see in the Waif is wrong. As much as they are assassin, they right the balance of injustice. They kill with as little suffering as possible. Yet the Waif didn't. 

[a black swan]

2 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Why does something have to be off? Jon left Ghost locked up when Mel told him to keep him nearby? The mistake led to Jon's stabbing. Jon also knew that the environment at CB was tense. 

Why is it so difficult to think that perhaps Arya simply left needle where it lay? If Jon left Ghost despite a direct warning, so too can Arya. 

Arya's life is in danger. She JUST got Needle back. She is hding in some underground cave, completely in the dark. Her threat level is on 10. What happened to Jon...he was completely blindsided because there was no perceived threat, nowhere near Arya's level. How are these situations even comparable? 

 

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Also. Why would Arya take the old woman's face, then after stabbing fArya (Waif), pull off the old woman face to reveal Waif's face. Why not pull off the old woman's face to reveal Arya, and why would the old woman not kill waif with Needle? Arya is familiar with needle, and needle is important to her. Why use a letter opener when you have castle forged steel? 

As far as Arya's subconscious goes, I doubt it's within her control. Arya is always being told, since a very young girl, to truly SEE with her eyes and not her mind. Syrio tried to ram this lesson over and over again. Jaqen repeatedly claims to truly know and truly see. This is all in her mind and she needs to see what is really there for all of this to make sense to Arya. This is the training of a Water Dancer. Not a Faceless Man. 

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From my pov, I call BS on the idea, but then again I just want Arya to leave the FM and get back to Westeros... But still, I think there are too many problems with this playing out as anything but what it appears to be. 

Nothing in Braavos and Arya's storyline is as it appears to be. We already know Jaqen was in that cage on purpose. We all know he spent time in the black cells when Ned was being held before his execution. We all know Jaqen planted the idea of going to Braavos and gave her the ticket to get there. They keep giving her chances and moving her through the system despite her failures. Someone wearing Jaqen's face drank the poison and gave his life so Arya could keep hers. Why all this effort for this one little girl? 

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No One - Personally. I think someone (captain) aboard a ship asks Arya. Who are you? Then she replies...."No One", because she probably realizes that her Stark name is not safe to flaunt. I think needle and the play have stirred emotions from within, and she realizes that she cannot be No One, because she is a Stark.

ep5 - Arya faces a difficult choice.

We're kinda passed that choosing to be No One or not. 

[Rob Storm]

23 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

 The version of the FM you see in the Waif is wrong. As much as they are assassin, they right the balance of injustice. They kill with as little suffering as possible. Yet the Waif didn't. 

I could see Jaqen helping Arya and punishing the waif for killing in a way that made Arya suffer...or already did help because he knew the waifs plans

[a black swan]

25 minutes ago, hallam said:

Most likely explanation is that Arya survives, kills the Waif, takes back her face and wears it round Jon.

Or she is possibly using the Waif's face during her excursions in the Riverlands, possibly at a certain Frey's party, and overhears news of Jon's victory in Winterfell or that he has been named King of the North. Arya can use the Waif's face at will and it might just come in handy in ep10. Possibly.

[a black swan]

1 minute ago, Rob Storm said:

I could see Jaqen helping Arya and punishing the waif for killing in a way that made Arya suffer...or already did help because he knew the waifs plans

Also, I think the Waif represents what Arya could be: Heartless and evil. Something that could lead her down a road where Arya would get to sew and kill and sew some more. But ultimately, like we'll see next week with the Waif, that road leads to death. Harping back to a certain Stark's farewell words to a very young Arya. 

[Xarkar]

3 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

I have had a few more days to consider this scene. I may have commented on this thread above, but now I have a few questions that seem to challenge this idea. Could it be possible, yes. But a few things seem off. 

Why does something have to be off? Jon left Ghost locked up when Mel told him to keep him nearby? The mistake led to Jon's stabbing. Jon also knew that the environment at CB was tense. 

Why is it so difficult to think that perhaps Arya simply left needle where it lay? If Jon left Ghost despite a direct warning, so too can Arya. 

 

Also. Why would Arya take the old woman's face, then after stabbing fArya (Waif), pull off the old woman face to reveal Waif's face. Why not pull off the old woman's face to reveal Arya, and why would the old woman not kill waif with Needle? Arya is familiar with needle, and needle is important to her. Why use a letter opener when you have castle forged steel? Why would waif wander around the city wearing Arya's face after being stabbed? Why would waif even wear Arya's face to begin with? One would think that if Arya failed to poison the actress, there might be a hit on Arya, so....why wear a target on your head? 

 

From my pov, I call BS on the idea, but then again I just want Arya to leave the FM and get back to Westeros... But still, I think there are too many problems with this playing out as anything but what it appears to be. 

 

No One - Personally. I think someone (captain) aboard a ship asks Arya. Who are you? Then she replies...."No One", because she probably realizes that her Stark name is not safe to flaunt. I think needle and the play have stirred emotions from within, and she realizes that she cannot be No One, because she is a Stark. 

 

 

 

 

Because Arya and the Waif are the same person.  

 

If Arya really was stabbed then very little makes sense.  She cant run and jump next episode unless she gets healed, that seems unlikely IMO.

[Xarkar]

51 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Or she is possibly using the Waif's face during her excursions in the Riverlands, possibly at a certain Frey's party, and overhears news of Jon's victory in Winterfell or that he has been named King of the North. Arya can use the Waif's face at will and it might just come in handy in ep10. Possibly.

There are theories Arya kills someone on her list this year.  Everyone on her list is in Westeros.  If she happens to take a face with her, it would make sense for it to be the Waif's.  For multiple reasons.

The Waif actress is already under contract

The Waif face is something the audience recognizes, so if she was seen in westeros we would immediately know its Arya.  I suspect we see the Waif at the Frey party.

 

This will happen after the Blackfish abandons his castle to go North for Sansa.  The Lannisters will go to celebrate at the twins with teh Freys and Jamie will have them all executed (after Arya gets Walder).  It would be even better if Jamie then went north with Brienne.

[Smoke317]

4 hours ago, adamr said:

There's been that interview with Waif actress where she kinda spoiled that she knew about Jon's resurrection...

http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-arya-stark-faceless-men-2016-5

I think that either the Waif will taunt Arya with the news of Jon during their fight. Maybe even in the darkness where the bloodstain on the wall (breadcrumbs) seem to be leading the waif...?  Also Arya could be wearing the Waif's face at a certain wedding in the Twins and overhear the news of Jon rallying the North...

[CrypticWeirwood]

23 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Because Arya and the Waif are the same person.  

There are going to be horde of insanely raging and disgusted ex-fans if that happens.

So let's just not go there.

[WolfQueenArya]

I do not believe for one moment that Arya and the Waif are the same person or split personalities. This doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. It was either Arya acting and semi faking it ( with probably actually getting mildly stabbed because that long of a knife would get through some of the pouches of pig blood and chain mail) or Jaqen is pretending to be Arya. There is something off with this scene, and we will find out on Sunday. I just hope the writing is good and makes sense because some of the writing is really inconsistent. 

[Xarkar]

4 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

I do not believe for one moment that Arya and the Waif are the same person or split personalities. This doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. It was either Arya acting and semi faking it ( with probably actually getting mildly stabbed because that long of a knife would get through some of the pouches of pig blood and chain mail) or Jaqen is pretending to be Arya. There is something off with this scene, and we will find out on Sunday. I just hope the writing is good and makes sense because some of the writing is really inconsistent. 

The problem i have is that if we are to assume the Waif is training Arya, (IE more advanced in her training) why does she not follow Jaqens orders.  He told her not to make her suffer, and she goes out and stabs her in the gut ant twists it.  This just shows me that the Waif is just as bad, or worse than Arya in training, so why would the Waif get to kill another FM in training who failed one task when she herself fails at so many.

I dont believe for a second, Jaqen gave a kill order on Arya.

 

[CrypticWeirwood]

1 minute ago, Xarkar said:

The problem i have is that if we are to assume the Waif is training Arya, (IE more advanced in her training) why does she not follow Jaqens orders.  He told her not to make her suffer, and she goes out and stabs her in the gut ant twists it.

Because she's a Frey, of course.  No, really, I mean it.

[tallTale]

I remember predicting a long time ago that Arya was actually Jaqen! 

At least I can take some solace in knowing my tinfoiledness was on the right path, but stopped a bit early (at least to me is seems very likely that Arya is the Waif at this point).

My question to you all angry fans is if this is in the next book, do you still blame the showrunners for this plot twist and not Martin?

 

 

[Xarkar]

2 minutes ago, tallTale said:

I remember predicting a long time ago that Arya was actually Jaqen! 

At least I can take some solace in knowing my tinfoiledness was on the right path, but stopped a bit early (at least to me is seems very likely at this point).

My question to you all angry fans is if this is in the next book, do you still blame the showrunners for this plot twist and not Martin?

 

 

If Arya is Jaqen, how exactly did she get the coin to go to Bravos in the first place?

[tallTale]

21 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

If Arya is Jaqen, how exactly did she get the coin to go to Bravos in the first place?

I never said it was a perfect theory, just something that would make sense. Arya battling with her anger/dark side and her good side/Stark side.

[Xarkar]

15 minutes ago, tallTale said:

I never said it was a perfect theory, just something that would make sense, Arya battling with her anger/dark side and her good side (the Stark side).

Which is why her being the Waif makes a lot of sense.

She fights the waif with a staff in the middle of town.  No one moves.
She gets stabbed, no one seems to care.
Jaqens words dont make a lot of sense to the Waif.  Why would he put a kill order on Arya for failing ONE test.  Arya has failed every test he gave her.

 

I do like the theory that No one is the faces on the wall.  Arya is the true faceless man.

[a black swan]

44 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

There are theories Arya kills someone on her list this year.  Everyone on her list is in Westeros.  If she happens to take a face with her, it would make sense for it to be the Waif's.  For multiple reasons.

The Waif actress is already under contract

The Waif face is something the audience recognizes, so if she was seen in westeros we would immediately know its Arya.  I suspect we see the Waif at the Frey party.

 

This will happen after the Blackfish abandons his castle to go North for Sansa.  The Lannisters will go to celebrate at the twins with teh Freys and Jamie will have them all executed (after Arya gets Walder).  It would be even better if Jamie then went north with Brienne.

I think youre absolutely right. Arya will cross people off her list and she needs to get back to Westeros asap. That scene in the trailer with Walder Frey celebrating offers a great opportunity to revisit old wounds. This is the second time that dickhead Frey reminded the viewers that he slit Catlyn's throat. All these Red Wedding reminders are not accidental. 

[D2procon]

If Jaqen Hagar can make arya blind and have some sort magical powers Im pretty sure he can quickly heal her wounds no?