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20 minutes ago, Lady Snowsand said:

If Jon and Sansa go to see Lyanna together, Sansa might tell Jon about the conversation that she had with Littlefinger.  That might make Jon search out Howland Reed for the truth about what happened during Robert's Rebellion.

Sorry, what conversation between Sansa and LF concerns Jon's parents? I can't remeber about it. As far as I'm concerned, in the show only Bran and Meera have some clues about it.

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I just have one grievance for this episode.  At the point after Rickon dies when Jon rushes towrads the Boltons, I wish they would have had him yell "WINTERFELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL" 

Oh well.  I can imagine.

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18 minutes ago, Baltan said:

Sorry, what conversation between Sansa and LF concerns Jon's parents? I can't remeber about it. As far as I'm concerned, in the show only Bran and Meera have some clues about it.

Last season when Sansa first came back to Winterfell, she went down into the crypts and Littlefinger found her at Lyanna's crypt and the had that conversation about what started the Rebellion.  Littlefinger basically said that maybe Lyanna wasn't kidnapped.

S5E4:

BAELISH: I thought I might find you here. (Sansa turns to him). Your Aunt Lyanna.

SANSA: Father never talked about her. Sometimes I'd find him down here, lighting the candles. They say she was beautiful.

BAELISH: I saw her once. I was a boy, living with your mother's family. Lord Whent had a great tourney at Harrenhal. Everyone was there. The Mad King, your father, Robert Baratheon. And Lyanna, she was already promised to Robert. You can imagine what it was like for me, a boy from nowhere, with nothing to his name, watching these legendary men, tilting at the lists. The last two riders were Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar Targaryen. When Rhaegar won, everyone cheered for the prince. I remember the girls laughing when he took off his helmet and they saw that silver hair. How handsome he was. Until he rode right past his wife, Elia Martell, and all the smiles died. I've never seen so many people so quiet. He rode past his wife, and he lay a crown of winter roses in Lyanna's lap. Blue as frost. How many tens of thousands had to die because Rhaegar chose your aunt?

SANSA: Yes, he chose her… and then he kidnapped her and raped her.

BAELISH: Come. (Takes her arm). Let's speak somewhere the dead can't hear us. (They begin walking away).

Edited by Lady Snowsand
Add content.

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@Lady Snowsand  Thanks, I didn't remember.

 

(ETA:discussion not for this thread, but I still find it difficult to believe everyone just accepted the kidnapping version. After Robert won, it was logical just to reproduce the same tale, but it's not like people didn't elope, ever.)

Edited by Baltan

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12 minutes ago, Lady Snowsand said:

Last season when Sansa first came back to Winterfell, she went down into the crypts and Littlefinger found her at Lyanna's crypt and the had that conversation about what started the Rebellion.  Littlefinger basically said that maybe Lyanna wasn't kidnapped.

gggrrrrr, it's so frustrating how it seems like Littlefinger and Varys know the answers to soo many questions, and wont share the info.

I want to see them not know something, or be wrong about something that gets them in big trouble, to show they are not infallible. 

 it would serve them right.      

     Come on Sansa, give Littlefinger crap!  I want Sansa to tell Littlefinger "You want a piece of this? I don't think so.....no,no no"

 

Edited by Dizzy Walker
grammar

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15 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I do wanna know how a wooden stag survived that fire...

Hubby said the same thing.

"Isn't that stag carved from WOOD?  Why wouldn't it burn?"

"Because D&D said so."

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I'll never understand how folks are able to be cool with a scene containing flying dragons or a giant but will get caught up on why a wooden stag wouldn't have burned completely. 

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2 hours ago, Lady Snowsand said:

If Jon and Sansa go to see Lyanna together, Sansa might tell Jon about the conversation that she had with Littlefinger.  That might make Jon search out Howland Reed for the truth about what happened during Robert's Rebellion.

And why would Ned's son think he should do that?

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20 minutes ago, elbucho3 said:

I'll never understand how folks are able to be cool with a scene containing flying dragons or a giant but will get caught up on why a wooden stag wouldn't have burned completely. 

Same.

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14 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

If any remaining Karstarks and Umbers bend the knee to their new liege lord/lady, they'll be pardoned. 

Karstark probably isn't in deep difficulty but the Umbers are. Violation of guest right. Imprisoning Rickon and giving him to Ramsay as a prisoner was clearly an unforgivable breach of trust.

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13 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

This might have taken Hardhome's place as my all time favorite episode.

 

And RIP Dany will become a villain theory, D&D smashed it in the inside the episode.

Well if you study Dany's chapters in depth it was pretty clear she wouldnt become a villain. It was all wishful thinking.  But good for D&D to put it to bed, now we can move on.

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40 minutes ago, elbucho3 said:

I'll never understand how folks are able to be cool with a scene containing flying dragons or a giant but will get caught up on why a wooden stag wouldn't have burned completely. 

Because one fits the inner rules of the work of fiction, whereas the other doesnt

We know giants and dragons exist in GOT, that is consistent

We also know that wood burns in GOT, which makes the Shireen thing inconsistent within the work

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4 hours ago, Gloer said:

And why would Ned's son think he should do that?

We don't know what Littlefinger told her.  Maybe he told her that Howland Reed has the answers that Jon needs about who his mother is.  Maybe Littlefinger will talk to Jon and tell him that Howland knows who his mother is. We don't know where/how D&D will bring up The question of Jon's parents.

Edited by Lady Snowsand
Content and spelling

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1 hour ago, elbucho3 said:

I'll never understand how folks are able to be cool with a scene containing flying dragons or a giant but will get caught up on why a wooden stag wouldn't have burned completely. 

Dragons and giants are fantasy. Wood and its tendency to burn isn't.

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Thoughts while watching:

 - ...Ooh boy.

With all the changes to the Northern houses, with all the less-than-stellar writing for the characters involved in this plotline, with the lack of any proper set-up for Jon as a leader of the North or as a direct threat to Ramsay - I knew this was going to be an Episode 9 more handicapped by its seasons' faults than any other up to this point. I knew I'd probably take issue with a lot of the details. But, the North being my favorite storyline (moreso in the books, but even in the show), I expected to enjoy this one, even if on a purely visceral level.

Instead, I think I hated it. I am fuming with disappointment, and I rarely get like that over anything, and never have for this show.

 - I can imagine the thinking going on in the writers room: make the odds as stacked against the Starks as possible, to give the arrival of the Arryn cavalry more weight. Fine. That doesn't require turning Jon into a f**king idiot. There's a whole plan laid out to encircle the Boltons, and they end up getting encircled themselves. That could be ironic, if it came about from a trick of strategy, but instead, it seems to come about because Jon lost his cool (and BTW - how the hell did the Bolton shield wall get around the back of the Stark men?) and a total lack of defenses by his party. There is no reason why anyone should follow Jon after this - his command was a disaster, and the Vale was the only reason anyone survived.

 - Speaking of the Vale: Sansa complains that she isn't being consulted on strategy (on the eve of battle, so apparently she was just stewing in frustration instead of putting a f**king word in before now), despite admitting that she doesn't know anything about battles. Her big complaint is that they don't have enough men (my big complaint would be that the show did a sh*t job justifying why Jon couldn't stand to wait for the Cerwyns). Why the hell doesn't she mention the damn Vale cavalry? There's no decent narrative justification that they've come up with for her to keep it a secret, and her holding onto the secret at this point goes against what she wants in the first place. You don't think Jon might adjust his damn battle plans to account for a secret regiment of heavy horse that'll be riding up to take Ramsay from behind? And I've seen people try to justify this by saying things like "she didn't know if they'd come" or "she might have been worried about spies in the camp." To the latter point - just tell Jon then! He's the commander - he can make adjustments, justify them however he may, and those become the orders. To the former - seeing how she's riding next to f**king Littlefinger with the Arryns, I'd say she was pretty damn sure they'd turn up.

 - "Rickon won't survive this." Weren't you the one who made "we have to get our brother back" a major argument for Jon getting back in the game in the first place?

 - On a purely technical level - the battle was a damn mess. It was visually uninterested, terribly structured, and just not very well-crafted cinema. This was an especially infuriating flaw to me because, while I expected some (not all) of the writing problems this episode had, I also expected the battle itself to be well-crafted. The Episode 9s of Seasons 4 and 5 were excellently put together. This was an utter failure.

 - Maybe it was because I had been so infuriated by all the mess before it, but I couldn't get a vicarious thrill out of the irony of Ramsay being eaten by his own dogs. And frankly, I would've preferred to see him fall to a Stark blade, in the Stark way.

 - Oh, and Dany was in this one too. Never really took seriously the idea that she would turn out to be the series ultimate villain before now, at least in the sense that I never seriously thought that she'd be presented in a villainous light (this goes for the books too). After her "big speech" on Drogon earlier and attitude this week, I'm starting to re-think that.

 - Hey look, two of our "strong female leads" meet up and form an alliance! We totally need to show them sharing smirks, exchanging snark, and bonding over how lame their dads were. 'Cause women, amirite?

In sum: Christ.

Further thought: Where the hell was Ghost? Even if just for one shot, like the Battle of Castle Black. Come on!

Edited by Fisch

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Funny how I nitpicked all kinds of stuff in this episode but didn't see the most obvious blunder until reading about it in this thread. Of course if Shereen's wooden toy was there with her it should have burned with. Either they let her have it with her until the ended or they took it away while preparing her for the pyre, in which case I can imagine her mother taking it with her and it not being left behind at all.

Furthermore, Dany's dragons are clearly part colibri, as evident by their ability to hover in one place. Sansa said nothing about the Arryn forces so that the men more loyal to Jon would die first and she be left as the one calling the shot (this theory may be a bit crackpot). Dany, I think, took a nap between arriving at the pyramid in the middle of the  night and going to war in the morning. 

For a slightly more thorough analysis, check this out: https://promethiumwings.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/a-review-of-s6e9-of-game-of-thrones/   

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3 minutes ago, PromethiumWings said:

Funny how I nitpicked all kinds of stuff in this episode but didn't see the most obvious blunder until reading about it in this thread. Of course if Shereen's wooden toy was there with her it should have burned with. Either they let her have it with her until the ended or they took it away while preparing her for the pyre, in which case I can imagine her mother taking it with her and it not being left behind at all.

Furthermore, Dany's dragons are clearly part colibri, as evident by their ability to hover in one place. Sansa said nothing about the Arryn forces so that the men more loyal to Jon would die first and she be left as the one calling the shot (this theory may be a bit crackpot). Dany, I think, took a nap between arriving at the pyramid in the middle of the  night and going to war in the morning. 

For a slightly more thorough analysis, check this out: https://promethiumwings.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/a-review-of-s6e9-of-game-of-thrones/   

The stag wasn't in the center of the pyre, it was at the edge. As if Shireen dropped it before she was tied to the stake.

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Its funny how in the "Inside episode" video the directors and Kit Harrington are speculating how everybody will see that Jon turns into a monster for a few seconds when he is destroying Ramsays face and that the viewers will be disgusted by the violence, when in reality almost all viewers are having almost orgasmic experience watching Ramsay getting almost killed by Jons fists.

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24 minutes ago, Peter Haroski said:

Its funny how in the "Inside episode" video the directors and Kit Harrington are speculating how everybody will see that Jon turns into a monster for a few seconds when he is destroying Ramsays face and that the viewers will be disgusted by the violence, when in reality almost all viewers are having almost orgasmic experience watching Ramsay getting almost killed by Jons fists.

I was trying to find the words and then you came along. "Almost orgasmic experience" is so accurate it hurts. 

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