[Spoiler] No way in Seven hells is this happening in the books

[Darkstream]

22 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

You still think we're getting a book version? 

It seems I already answered that question in the very post of mine you quoted. 

22 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

You still think we're getting a book version?  For someone who was confident he could get the book out in 2015 we're an awfully long way into 2016 with no further news.

Makes you wonder how many re-writes are taking place to make the books as different from the show as possible.  I don't doubt GRRM told D&D a lot and I don't doubt GRRM is now changing his own story from what he told them.

I think there is a real possibility that GRRM will wait until the show finishes in 2018 before he cracks on and finishes TWOW.

Your welcome to your nihilistic view point if it pleases you.

I'll tell you this, first, there is no way GRRM has any need to change his writing one bit for it to be drastically different than the drivel that d$d hack out. I'm not sure if you've read the books or not, but that's a quite obvious observation to make if one has. Secondly, I'm confident that any re-writes, or delays are due to GRRM being dedicated to releasing a superb quality product, something that d$d could care less about, and in fact, it seems it's something they are vehemently opposed to.

[HairGrowsBack]

It's probably been said already, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei's fire of joy was the equivalent of her burning the tower of the hand in the books, mixed with some of her future Aerys 2.0 actions. I expect next season to be Jaime and Cersei bickering , following some of the pattern of AFFC.

All in all, this season only confirmed some of the theories we already knew, and keeps rehashing bastard versions of those horrible AFFC/ADWD. 

[Ser Gareth]

7 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

It seems I already answered that question in the very post of mine you quoted. 

Your welcome to your nihilistic view point if it pleases you,

I'll tell you this, first, there is no way GRRM has any need to change his writing one bit for it to be drastically different than the drivel that d$d hack out. I'm not sure if you've read the books or not, but that's a quite obvious observation to make if one has. Secondly, I'm confident that any re-writes, or delays are due to GRRM being dedicated to releasing a superb quality product, something that d$d could care less about, and in fact, it seems it's something they are vehemently opposed to.

It's not specifics he may change but the general outline of the entire story.  He must be gutted of the reveals this season.  Whilst it is true many of the obsessive fanbase have long (correctly) predicted events such as Jon's true parentage, Cersei burning down part (all?) of King's Landing with Wildfire, Jon not actually being dead etc. the vast majority of the casual fan base didn't see any of these coming.

So I think there is a strong possibility that he will change some of the above.  Maybe Jon's parentage will now change in the books, Cersei may not burn King's Landing etc.  He has already given himself a get out clause with that prophecies can be changed.

I truly hope you're right about releasing a superb quality product.  But what concerns me is that IMO ASOS is the best book of the series and he knocked that out in 2 and a bit years.  Seems to me the longer the gap between releases the inferior the product has been, which makes logical sense as quite often when something is good artistically it just flows naturally and quickly.  I am hoping that TWOW bucks this trend (and even if it doesn't it must surely improve on the comparative travesty that was ADWD?) but from what sample chapters I have read so far I remain sceptical.

[Ser Gareth]

22 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

It's probably been said already, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei's fire of joy was the equivalent of her burning the tower of the hand in the books, mixed with some of her future Aerys 2.0 actions. I expect next season to be Jaime and Cersei bickering , following some of the pattern of AFFC.

All in all, this season only confirmed some of the theories we already knew, and keeps rehashing bastard versions of those horrible AFFC/ADWD. 

Contradiction surely?

Until the books come out we won't know what has been spoiled or not.  I agree that some of the more popular fan theories have now been seemingly revealed but there are other things that may well be spoilers that we just don't realise are spoilers yet, e.g. Jon becoming King of the North, Arya being the one who kills Walder Frey, Cersei becoming defacto Queen etc.

I think Cersei's destruction of the Sept is very likely to happen.  No way D&D would pass up the opportunity not to have Gregorstein fight in a trial by combat.  Obviously I doubt Tommen will commit suicide but it may be that he gets caught up in the blast.  Either to stop Aegon or Dany taking King's Landing I think she'll attempt to burn the whole City and will be stopped by Jaime.  That'll happen in the show and books IMO.  It's more likely to be Dany as her prophecy is she'll be cast down by one more beautiful than her.

[HairGrowsBack]

1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

Contradiction surely?

 

More like poor wording, I fear  ; let's say theories that were very likely  to be true.

As for the rest : I think it will happen in the books, but with far more damage, and I doubt Cersei will be crowned queen in her own right afterward. Hence my saying what happened in 6x10 is more like a bastard version of the burning of Tower of the Hand and this future event.

[Ser Gareth]

3 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

More like poor wording, I fear  ; let's say theories that were very likely  to be true.

As for the rest : I think it will happen in the books, but with far more damage, and I doubt Cersei will be crowned queen in her own right afterward. Hence my saying what happened in 6x10 is more like a bastard version of the burning of Tower of the Hand and this future event.

The more I think about it, the more I think she will sit on the Iron Throne.  Otherwise what exactly is the more beautiful one doing to cast her down?  Cast her down from what?  Can only be cast down from being Queen.  Which also raises the intrigue that Aegon will therefore never sit the Iron Throne.  Dany will either get there first and or Aegon will never get there.

[Maia]

4 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think Cersei's destruction of the Sept is very likely to happen. 

 

Impossible. Varys specifically mentioned in ACoK that the cache under the sept of Baelor had been discovered and disposed of several years prior to the start of the series. And with Varys being in KL and very likely behind the election of High Sparrow - note how FAegon seems to be tailor-made to appeal to somebody like him, there is no way that he'd let Cersei place fresh wildfire into/under the sept - even if she had people to do it for her, which she doesn't. She may try to or even succeed in burning down KL at some point in the future - if she teams up with Euron, for instance, but there is no way that she'd be able to "Godfather" her opposition as a means of avoiding her trial.

[HairGrowsBack]

59 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

The more I think about it, the more I think she will sit on the Iron Throne.  Otherwise what exactly is the more beautiful one doing to cast her down?  Cast her down from what?  Can only be cast down from being Queen.  Which also raises the intrigue that Aegon will therefore never sit the Iron Throne.  Dany will either get there first and or Aegon will never get there.

While she is not technically the ruling queen, she already fulfills the role through her son in AFFC : she is queen regent. As long as Tommen is alive, she effectively holds most of the power, and she is well aware of that ; that's lofty enough, and she can indeed be cast down from there. I really doubt she'll ever get crowned as protector of the realm, and by Qyburn of all people. 

[Ruhail]

From this day forth The Stormlands shall be renamed in honour of his grace's defeat as The Punished Lands.

[Lord Freypie]

Personnally, as much as I see other parts differing a lot, as much I think Cersei returning to power and using wildfire as last card is exactly what will happen in the books, if it won't necessarily be in the same order.

All most advanced chapters mention Cersei in power, not Cersei fleeing to the rock or a civil war taking place, so it's what will happen. And it's certainly not Varys who will oppose Cersei becoming regent again (or proclaiming herself queen eventually), he exactly killed Kevan in hope Cersei will resume her disastrous reign guaranteeing Aegon a large support.

And there are so much foreshadowing about Cersei and wildfire it's clear that if someone burns KL it will be her.

[mattpeto]

8 hours ago, Darkstream said:

It seems I already answered that question in the very post of mine you quoted. 

Your welcome to your nihilistic view point if it pleases you.

I'll tell you this, first, there is no way GRRM has any need to change his writing one bit for it to be drastically different than the drivel that d$d hack out. I'm not sure if you've read the books or not, but that's a quite obvious observation to make if one has. Secondly, I'm confident that any re-writes, or delays are due to GRRM being dedicated to releasing a superb quality product, something that d$d could care less about, and in fact, it seems it's something they are vehemently opposed to.

D&D work nearly all year around to make 10 episodes per year (until Season 7/8).  Maybe you should just think about that - when you squabble over dialogue that should be improved or storylines that feel fragmented.   This is a high quality show.  Period.

They produce 10 hours of television per year with dozens of main characters, plotlines, CGI battles and battles with extras.  The stuff the showrunners to me especially in the time period they do, are simply amazing.  

While you rip the showrunners, they are already hard on Season 7 outlines, even for less episodes. Every season, they send the outlines to GRRM for feedback.   I'm rooting for GRRM to finish TWOW by this time next year, so he can write an episode in S8 (and not just give feedback on the outlines).  

I have no doubt that GRRM is laboring over every detail in TWOW.   It's a great think for us book readers to some degree, we should get an incredible product.  But he has infinitely more time than D&D to ironclad his story now.

[aFeastForDragons]

15 minutes ago, mattpeto said:

D&D work nearly all year around to make 10 episodes per year (until Season 7/8).  Maybe you should just think about that - when you squabble over dialogue that should be improved or storylines that feel fragmented.   This is a high quality show.  Period.

 

They may work all year round and get 60-100 million dollars for each season but they can't be bothered to pay someone $10 to look over a script for glaring plot holes, inconsistent story telling and awful lazy dialogue? That does not make a high quality show. Period. 

 

15 minutes ago, mattpeto said:

Every season, they send the outlines to GRRM for feedback.

 

No they don't. You just made that up. I constantly see people making things like this up. No George is not a producer. Not he does not have a bat phone to answer all their questions. No he does not look over the scripts. No he is not involved in the writing of the show now. 

 

[dsug]

1 minute ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

They may work all year round and get 60-100 million dollars for each season but they can't be bothered to pay someone $10 to look over a script for glaring plot holes, inconsistent story telling and awful lazy dialogue? That does not make a high quality show. Period. 

 

 

No they don't. You just made that up.

 

George said that since he didn't write an episode of season six, they sent him outlines of the whole season. 

[StepStark]

13 minutes ago, mattpeto said:

D&D work nearly all year around to make 10 episodes per year (until Season 7/8).  Maybe you should just think about that - when you squabble over dialogue that should be improved or storylines that feel fragmented.   This is a high quality show.  Period.

They produce 100 hours of television per year with dozens of main characters, plotlines, CGI battles and battles with extras.  The stuff the showrunners to me especially in the time period they do, are simply amazing.  

While you rip the showrunners, they are already hard on Season 7 outlines, even for less episodes. Every season, they send the outlines to GRRM for feedback.   I'm rooting for GRRM to finish TWOW by this time next year, so he can write an episode in S8 (and not just give feedback on the outlines).  

I have no doubt that GRRM is laboring over every detail in TWOW.   It's a great think for us book readers to some degree, we should get an incredible product.  But he has infinitely more time than D&D to ironclad his story now.

I don't think anyone here said that D&D are lazy or something. LOL!!! But their work ethics shouldn't be an excuse for the horrible show they produce, in which the worst thing is their writing. For comparison, I'm pretty sure that England footballers trained very hard for EURO 2016, but once they lost to Iceland, everybody saw it as a huge failure, because it is a huge failure. Nobody was talking about how many hours they spent practicing. So I don't see your point. You may be impressed by D&D's working ethics. I'm not, by the way, because I don't really know how strong it is, because I don't work with them and I don't usually take promotional videos on face value. And also, D&D are really not the only persons in the world that produce a television show on a yearly basis, but in fact, they are among rare showrunners that have someone else create the basic framework of the story for them. So, when we look only at the final product, it is far from satisfying. It's a low quality show. Period.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, dsug said:

George said that since he didn't write an episode of season six, they sent him outlines of the whole season. 

And George has also said he can only give feedback, but that doesn't mean they  listen to him. And Cogman has said that only four people are allowed in the writers room, and GRRM isn't one of them. 

[The Fattest Leech]

6 minutes ago, StepStark said:

I don't think anyone here said that D&D are lazy or something. LOL!!! But their work ethics shouldn't be an excuse for the horrible show they produce, in which the worst thing is their writing. For comparison, I'm pretty sure that England footballers trained very hard for EURO 2016, but once they lost to Iceland, everybody saw it as a huge failure, because it is a huge failure. Nobody was talking about how many hours they spent practicing. So I don't see your point. You may be impressed by D&D's working ethics. I'm not, by the way, because I don't really know how strong it is, because I don't work with them and I don't usually take promotional videos on face value. And also, D&D are really not the only persons in the world that produce a television show on a yearly basis, but in fact, they are among rare showrunners that have someone else create the basic framework of the story for them. So, when we look only at the final product, it is far from satisfying. It's a low quality show. Period.

Preach! 

And just to add, both the directors and many actors have all made statements at how confused they have been during filming, not really understanding their characters, or being told one thing by the director and something else by D&D. Funny how show defenders like to forget this part. 

[HairGrowsBack]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And George has also said he can only give feedback, but that doesn't mean they  listen to him. And Cogman has said that only four people are allowed in the writers room, and GRRM isn't one of them. 

I can't believe they only have four people writing for a show that has so many characters and plots, no wonder they're killing off everyone.

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, HairGrowsBack said:

I can't believe they only have four people writing for a show that has so many characters and plots, no wonder they're killing off everyone.

It's a warehouse fire sale. Everything must go! 

[StepStark]

12 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And just to add, both the directors and many actors have all made statements at how confused they have been during filming, not really understanding their characters, or being told one thing by the director and something else by D&D. Funny how show defenders like to forget this part.

That is a really good point. I don't know of any other show that suffers from that problem. Looks like the production is one big mess in which nobody is on the same page with the rest of the crew.

[dsug]

24 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And George has also said he can only give feedback, but that doesn't mean they  listen to him. And Cogman has said that only four people are allowed in the writers room, and GRRM isn't one of them. 

ugh 

No one knows what goes on between George and the writers no let's not act like we do, ok?