Dany's War Machine

[Protagoras]

13 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Remember Viserys drilled into Dany's head that a huge army is required to take Westeros.  However, although I believe she will gather and venture forth with her massive force, I don't believe she will have all of it when she actually lands.   Allow me to throw out the possibility that many sellsword companies and even soldiers from Yunkai, Pentos, Volantis who knows maybe even Qaarth will join her ranks.  Of course that depends heavily on the outcome of the Battle of Fire in Mereen.   But yes, I would think your numbers are squarely in the entirely possible category here.   

Support in Westeros trips me up.   Since Dany has no idea that Aegon is conquering Westeros in hopes of her marrying him, it's entirely possible she goes around to the west or lands further north, in the Riverlands, Vale and/or Westerlands.  She may feel she needs to gather forces in the places this new king hasn't yet conquered.   But yes, I would expect Jon Con will make some very bitter enemies with his new Tywinish attitude toward war.   Not much worse than bitter enemies in Westeros.   Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys split up and landed in different places at different times.   I keep thinking about Visenya's single handed winning of Vale support with little more than a dragon ride and short talk on the new world order.  

Tbh - I don´t shipping the troops will be that much of a problem. GRRM are most likely not interested in those things considering that he want his characters to arrive with boats whenever he wants them too. I think Daenerys biggest concern is to control her force - but then, if the Dotraki are willing to follow her over poison water due to her getting almost their worship, I think this will be doable too. However, she will need supplies and she will need them fast so landening somewhere with easy obtainable food like the Reach or an area where Daenerys can get a westeros ally to support her is crucial. 

And certainly more units from Essos might join her ranks. However, I prefer to hold a less optimistic view. GRRM isn´t going to make this easy for her and I will assume one dead or lost/stolen dragon. A large army might mean instant win and I think she still needs those allies in Westeros, so I am guessing that she will have many troops of inferiour quality (Dothraki, Sellswords, freeborn fighters) and one unit of good quality (Unsullied). Enough to get a strong start (like Aegons Golden company) but not enough to outright win. 

JonCon is btw going to be her best recruiter,

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 23/8/2016 at 4:06 PM, Lord Vance II said:

Dany's potential invasion makes me fear for Westeros. 

The death and destruction wrought by Dany's invasion has the possibility to make the War of 5 Kings look like a skirmish. She's assembled the most violent, disdainful army the common Westerosi could dream up...Dothraki raiders, Ironborn, Eunice slave soldiers (as far as they're concerned) and freakin' dragons. 

There are no slaves to free. The small folk have no reason to support her. She offers nothing but another, worse cycle of fire and blood. She's made every noble house of Westeros her enemy, why would they join her? Dorne might I guess, but if they do so what? They have an decent force, but to hit anywhere else you either have to get back on ships or cross the Red Mountains. 

Obediant, sure. But fear keeps you alive. Plus they are relatively lightly armored, knights would shred through them. I think she would keep them very close. 

My problem with her Dothraki army, besides fearing for Westeros, is that they have no incentive. I don't doubt they would go...but are they just going to win and go home? They'll want something. She can't give them land in Westeros. So wealth? Would she let them head home with fortunes of her own peoples riches? When the crown is still buried in debt?

I think Aegon is going to land, win over a few houses and say "Yo, this b*tch is coming and we need to be ready, rally around me." The best chance to beat her, in my opinion, would be an all out, fairly suicidal naval attack to try to destroy as much as possible, or be able to strike right a she lands, wherever that is. The Dragons are strong and terrifying, but you cant occupy a vast continent with three dragons.

Am I biased against Dany, you bet. But only because I just don't see her being a good thing for Westeros. Nothing to offer but more fire and blood. 

That's astounding!

On 23/8/2016 at 3:52 PM, Curled Finger said:

Exactly and well said.   Is there any hope the Unsullied, dragons, sellswords or knights will be able to keep the Dothraki in check?   I wonder if Dany gets so far as to enlist the Dothraki if there is any hope at all they will act within any rules of civil engagement (such as war is possible of attaining.)  Unless her attitudes and ideas change drastically between where we last saw her and arrival in Westeros Dany doesn't appear to be able to manage this effort.   I suppose any number of things could happen.   As I reread the last of your statement it occurs to me that perhaps the Dothraki could be useful in bringing Euron's Iron born to heel?   Vale Mountain Clans?   The Dothraki simply appear to be the land mines in all of this, but I don't know where other factions or people could be enlisted to help in the effort.   

My guess is that Dany will not care about what her people will do since she didn't care what happened to the Essosi who were starving, had lost their houses and even sold themselves into slavery in the cities she has destroyed. 

[Curled Finger]

16 hours ago, SeanF said:

I expect that a large part of the Volantene navy will mutiny in favour of Dany, under the influence of the Red Priests.

I did this massive research today as I was going to lay out the real army numbers.   Interestingly, there really aren't any.   What I did learn is that The Volantene navy is substantial.  I'm willing to bet you're absolutely right on this.  

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

Just doing my part on a favorite topic. 

I think marching across Essos is the play here. Slower, a bit, but she would be able to link up with the dragon roads not too far to the west and any fleet would have to round Valyria, adding time. If she brought as many Dothraki with her on her way west, I don't think any of the Free Cities are going to lift a finger. She won't take all the Dothraki across the sea, but at least bring them as a show of force on Essos. Collect tribute to either pay her way across the Narrow Sea or pay the IT debt when/if she takes over (both involving Braavos). 

Passage by sea is dangerous. If Dany's fleet got hit with a hurricane (as often roll over the Stepstones), she could lose half her army like that. Plus I think she would want to keep her Dothraki off ships as much as possible.

I think as she makes her way West, stories will start filtering in that will change his mind and also turn the people against her out of fear. Don't know specifically, but just a hunch. That and pride will, I think, will make Aegon claim the throne for himself and fight her. 

Lord Manderly has to have at least 5k, and I think as many as 8k fresh men. But even so, I really think the North won't factor into the initial invasion and war. Their war is to the north. 

My friend has given us a possible way for Dany to march her happy army all the way to Westeros.   You've lain out a good job for the Dothraki and a really good way for her to avoid all the Greyjoys.   Still, with all these ships in play I think they've got to matter in someone's story.   Since the Greyjoys are headed straight for her it's not unlikely that she will need her own navy of sorts.  That said, I was looking into real army numbers today.   The Volantene Navy really is the only game in the Ghiscari Cities.   Curiously, Volantis and New Ghis are the only cities who actually have their own armies.   New Ghis' army is massive.   You might not know it but there are 48,000 New Ghis military men in play with Dany.  Is it possible that Volantis and New Ghis' people are tired of being slaves and willing to jump ship so to speak to join the ranks of her freedmen?   If 8 legions (6000 men each) decide they wanted a taste of freedom the Dothraki may never board ships.   Just a thought.   

Your hunch is probably right.   Aegon's just a kid too, really.   His head will get too big to fit through the door and may forget what his conquest was really for.   My only hesitation here is the dragons.   Wouldn't any Targ want dragons?   Maybe he will be another fool who thinks he can just take them.   

I can't even come close to figuring out how many armies or fighting men are anywhere.    Your last bit is what got me researching earlier.   All I can tell you is Manderly sent 1500 men with Robb.   I came up with almost 55,000 fighters in the North, but that's limited to Roose's 6000, Stannis' 5000, Nights Watch and manned castles along the Wall and 40,000 Wildlings including women and children. That number doesn't include any of the House fighters except as noted above.   There could be anywhere from 2 to 20,000 fighting men left between Manderly, Dustin, Ryswell or any of the Northern bunch.   And we haven't even seen Skaggos yet, Brother!  

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

Yea man thanks! I agree with your thoughts on Essos. I feel Dany has kind of dug herself into a hole with her liberation. Will she just leave Slavers Bay in a mess and bypass the slaver Free Cities as well? I'm not sure if Dany would go for the whole marriage with Aegon purely on the basis of she's his aunt and she does'nt seem to believe in the whole Targ incest. I can definitely imagine the Tyrells forsaking the Lannisters for Aegon, how? I'm not sure. Kind of off topic but do you think that the Martells will support Aegon or Dany? If Quentyns dead and Aegon is waiting to possibly marry Dany, then who would the Dornish declare for first? 

About the numbers, it's hard to accurately calculate them. The Reach probably has 35-45k split between their army under Randyl Tarly, their banners at home under Garlan Tyrell and the Redwyne fleet. The Lannisters probably have 20k or so, that is scattered around the Riverlands, West and Crownlands. Dorne and The Vale are literally untouched and could both bring somewhere in the area of 20k (Vale) and 15k (Dorne). I really love the idea of Dany with her captains at the Painted Table, mirroring Aegon's Conquest.

I think you're right about Dany being legitamised at Vaes Dothrak. Maybe she'll arrive in time to smash the besiegers, but from Barristan and Tyrion's POVs, the odds seem to be in the Meereneese favour wouldn't you agree? The Yunkish are made up mainly of independent, ill-discilplined slave troops and sellswords. On top of that, they have no overall leader and their camp is riddled with disease. With Barristan the Bold leading the attack they could very well win. However, we just don't know what will happen when the Ironborn or Volanteens turn up. I forgot about Euron coming east, I think Euron will ultimately be killed by Victarion who might die in the attempt? I can't see any of Theon's uncles surviving. 

Awesome thread!

The posters make the awesome thread my friend.   Thank you.  I get the feeling Slaver's Bay is about to become FreedMen Bay.   There are only 4 Ghiscari slave cities.   Astapor and Mereen have already "fallen" to Dany's freedom fighters.  New Ghis can make a tremendous show in this and I wasn't able to determine what Volantis' army or navy actually numbers.  I'm looking at the landscape thinking there are only 2 slave cities actually left.   I won't be surprised if the Battle of Fire frees all the cities.  Surprisingly there are a ton of sellsword companies in the immediate vicinity--far more than I originally thought.   Nah man, I'm thinking every single one of those slavers is going the way of the dinosaur.  .

To Dany's love life.  I don't know.   She seemed to be pretty what?  not shaken, not disappointed maybe stunned that she wasn't married to Viserys.   That is what Targs did.  She expected to be her brother's wife her whole life.  Targs are a rare commodity and if there is only 1 Targ left she sort of has to marry him to keep the bloodline pure.   Aegon seems to expect this as well.  It's a Targ thing.   I expect a whole lot of dissatisfied folks to jump the Lannister ship and get on that Aegon train.   The Tyrells are in a weird position with Marg married to Tommen though, so I don't think it's as cut and dry as it looks.   Maybe they can arrange some secret assassination to free their Marg from Tommen.  The Martells are another one I can't call so easily.   The Arianne chapters lead us to believe she's going to bag Aegon and make all Doran's long years of revenge plotting come to fruition.   Arianne was a jerk, but I think she's wised up a bit and understands some of the real game now.   I think she wants to do what's right for her father and Dorne.   I can see her getting to Aegon and sending that "WAR" note back to Pops and start heading home when Doran receives Quentyn's bones and declares a big "Oh Hell No" on Dany.   And nothing gets done.   Dorne may not really have that much to bring to the table.  It doesn't actually say anywhere how many spears they really have.   The Wiki says Dorne probably has as many fighting men as the Vale or North.  Then it tells us it doesn't know how many fighting men either place has.   I love the idea of 50-60,000 poisoned spears, but I'm thinking the number may be half that.   Significant added to Aegon's force, but hardly the potential Dany's got with a foreign crew.  I think Dorne will probably join Aegon.  By the way, I tallied up the Reach numbers in the Wiki and they can come up with 89,000 fighters and 200 war ships.    Nice, huh? 

I have a friend, @Nevets, who draws a compelling scenario for Mereen losing their war.  Check the story out in the Winds of Winter subforum in our old topic Merging Storylines.   Nevets has some utterly intriguing ideas about how things could shake out in Winds.  I hope Dany's people win, but GRRM has tricked me so many times, I don't bet on much.  I will say that 6 months ago I could have agreed about Vic flicking Euron off the planet, but after The Forsaken I don't think Vic has a prayer.  That reminds me to go see what Nevets thinks about that!   But yes, I think the Pale Mare will take some very serious tolls on Yunkai.   I'm hoping the dragons will just roast the diseased bodies being flung over the walls.   Don't let my Ser Grampa go out like that--just NO!   

You are more fun than anyone should have in a topic.   

[Curled Finger]

10 hours ago, Protagoras said:

Tbh - I don´t shipping the troops will be that much of a problem. GRRM are most likely not interested in those things considering that he want his characters to arrive with boats whenever he wants them too. I think Daenerys biggest concern is to control her force - but then, if the Dotraki are willing to follow her over poison water due to her getting almost their worship, I think this will be doable too. However, she will need supplies and she will need them fast so landening somewhere with easy obtainable food like the Reach or an area where Daenerys can get a westeros ally to support her is crucial. 

And certainly more units from Essos might join her ranks. However, I prefer to hold a less optimistic view. GRRM isn´t going to make this easy for her and I will assume one dead or lost/stolen dragon. A large army might mean instant win and I think she still needs those allies in Westeros, so I am guessing that she will have many troops of inferiour quality (Dothraki, Sellswords, freeborn fighters) and one unit of good quality (Unsullied). Enough to get a strong start (like Aegons Golden company) but not enough to outright win. 

JonCon is btw going to be her best recruiter,

That was so rational.  Last I saw Dany I don't know what she was really thinking with that ghost of Quaithe egging her on and those hallucinations.   As I say, I'm not sold on Blood & Fire meaning abject devastation.   Khal Drogo's khalisar was 100,000 strong, with 40,000 mounted Dothraki.   They split up but they all have to reconvene at Vaes Dothrak.  If it gets to the place where she convinces them that she is THE Khaleesi they will support her, but I'm just not sure how.  Supplies are fast becoming the concern here.   If the Reach is already in Aegon's control the next place with ample food stores would be the Vale.   Maybe that dragon will choke on Little Finger?  

Blood & Fire and The Prince That Was Promised...There is so much of this 3 heads of the dragon involved in Rhaegar's quest for TPTWP--I'm thinking it's important to have 3 dragons at least to land in Westeros with.  Of course, all I really see in the TPTWP deal is a reenactment of Aegon's conquest.  Of course you're right, GRRM isn't likely to make Dany's voyage or landing or time in Westeros easy at all.   I would still rather have the Dothraki refuse to get on ships than lose a dragon.   

Good old Jon Con.   He's so sad about not being a jerk when he had the chance I'm actually rooting for him to get another chance.   I wonder if he will really be able to pull it off.    He's using Tywin as his atrocity model.   Oh this could be great fun.   

[Dex drako]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

 Last I saw Dany I don't know what she was really thinking with that ghost of Quaithe egging her on and those hallucinations.   As I say, I'm not sold on Blood & Fire meaning abject devastation.

there not much else it could mean tho.

I think the problem comes from the cognitive dissonance between how Dany believes she is and how she's really portrayed. its the interesting thing about dany's plot line. GRRM uses the "unreliable narrator" idea, but unlike any other character in the book GRRM has made sure not to give Dany any deserting views. all view on her story are either writer from her POV or someone that agrees with her. on top of the culture she's fighting against is the biggest strawmen in the whole story with no redeeming features.

Dany sees herself as a good person and so that's what we're shown but that doesn't make it the truth
.
that was the point of those hallucinations, to get Dany to realize she isn't the mother to the slave or kind queen she whats to think she. the dragons know who she is because she is one and "dragons plant no trees". it can't be any clear that Blood and Fire is all abject devastation.

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Blood & Fire and The Prince That Was Promised...There is so much of this 3 heads of the dragon involved in Rhaegar's quest for TPTWP--I'm thinking it's important to have 3 dragons at least to land in Westeros with.  Of course, all I really see in the TPTWP deal is a reenactment of Aegon's conquest.  Of course you're right, GRRM isn't likely to make Dany's voyage or landing or time in Westeros easy at all.   I would still rather have the Dothraki refuse to get on ships than lose a dragon.   

the problem you have is you think Dany is TPTWP when she most like nothing but a red herring. Blood and fire and TPTWP have nothing to do with each other.

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Dex drako said:

there not much else it could mean tho.

I think the problem comes from the cognitive dissonance between how Dany believes she is and how she's really portrayed. its the interesting thing about dany's plot line. GRRM uses the "unreliable narrator" idea, but unlike any other character in the book GRRM has made sure not to give Dany any deserting views. all view on her story are either writer from her POV or someone that agrees with her. on top of the culture she's fighting against is the biggest strawmen in the whole story with no redeeming features.

Dany sees herself as a good person and so that's what we're shown but that doesn't make it the truth
.
that was the point of those hallucinations, to get Dany to realize she isn't the mother to the slave or kind queen she whats to think she. the dragons know who she is because she is one and "dragons plant no trees". it can't be any clear that Blood and Fire is all abject devastation.

 

I don't think that Dany is going to murder indiscriminately, take slaves, use rape as a terror tactic, or encourage her men to torture the locals, during her invasion of Western Essos, and Westeros.  Indeed, she may often punish such things.

The problem is that a massive invasion usually requires bloodshed and extortion on a massive scale in order to succeed.  The slaves in the Free Cities may be freed, but then find themselves paying massive taxes to support their Dothraki overlords.  Rape may be punished, but her men will be free to choose widows and daughters of the men they've killed as wives and concubines.  Cities that resist will be savagely sacked, or starved into submission.  And her invasion of Westeros will cost money, which will likely be raised at the expense of the inhabitants of the Free Cities.

[KINGpanther]

What really annoys me about these Dany Invasion topics is no one thinks of logistics. She wants to bring a 100 000+ army into a war torn, starving, on the brink of Winter Westeros? Does no one see the short sightedness of that? Dany would do much better using Stealth.

[Lord Vance II]

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

 Is it possible that Volantis and New Ghis' people are tired of being slaves and willing to jump ship so to speak to join the ranks of her freedmen?

I'm just going to throw out another theory of mine that again kind of plays devil's advocate for Dany. 

What are the odds that after Dany starts moving west (assuming she's going by land like I think she will), Volantis will see the writing on the wall and try to make reform before she gets there? The free men of Volantis have to know what happened to slave owners in Slaver's Bay and they aren't stupid. If they fail to keep her in Mereen, I think they come up with a gradual freedom plan to spare themselves. If every slave in Volantis was freed at once, the city would grind to a halt and descend into chaos, especially since Dany doesn't seem to like cleaning up her own messes. But if they swore that in X years all would be free (kind of like what Tyrion proposed in the show) do you think Dany would accept it and spare the masters? If Volantis tried, and it worked, I think the other Free Cities would follow suit. 

12 minutes ago, KINGpanther said:

She wants to bring a 100 000+ army into a war torn, starving, on the brink of Winter Westeros? Does no one see the short sightedness of that? Dany would do much better using Stealth.

Of course she isn't thinking of logistics. Hell, she probably has no idea winter is coming. I don't think we (posters) aren't seeing the shortsightedness, it's just so blatant we accept it. What's more, no one with her has big-picture campaign experience. Barristan is a soldier, not a general. Tyrion is smart but just not experienced at all in offensive warfare on this scale. Dario is a fine battle commander, but I don't see him as up to planning a continental invasion. She's counting on the good will she's gotten from the smallfolk in Slaver's Bay, which will not happen in Westeros. I think percieved "ungratefulness" on the part of the average Westerosi will be straw that breaks the camels back and sends her into true Targ-style madness. 

And how exactly does one stealthily invade a massive continent? One way or another, your going to have to line 'em up and throw down. And there's absolutely no possible way word won't cross the Narrow Sea of her approach. 

[Tucu]

35 minutes ago, KINGpanther said:

What really annoys me about these Dany Invasion topics is no one thinks of logistics. She wants to bring a 100 000+ army into a war torn, starving, on the brink of Winter Westeros? Does no one see the short sightedness of that? Dany would do much better using Stealth.

GRRM is setting up a huge famine in Westeros and I guess Dany's army will be fighting on foot soon after her arrival (after eating the horses).

We are seeing the effects that the small Stannis army and wildlings are having on the NW food supply. Four years worth of winter reserves gone in a few months.

[Curled Finger]

6 hours ago, Dex drako said:

there not much else it could mean tho.

I think the problem comes from the cognitive dissonance between how Dany believes she is and how she's really portrayed. its the interesting thing about dany's plot line. GRRM uses the "unreliable narrator" idea, but unlike any other character in the book GRRM has made sure not to give Dany any deserting views. all view on her story are either writer from her POV or someone that agrees with her. on top of the culture she's fighting against is the biggest strawmen in the whole story with no redeeming features.

Dany sees herself as a good person and so that's what we're shown but that doesn't make it the truth
.
that was the point of those hallucinations, to get Dany to realize she isn't the mother to the slave or kind queen she whats to think she. the dragons know who she is because she is one and "dragons plant no trees". it can't be any clear that Blood and Fire is all abject devastation.

the problem you have is you think Dany is TPTWP when she most like nothing but a red herring. Blood and fire and TPTWP have nothing to do with each other.

I get it, Dex.   I don't think Dany is TPWTP--I think we are supposed to think this and she may even think this but the whole TPWTP seems to bleed into all this other stuff that is uniquely Targaryan.   I'm not a big fan of any of the prophesies.   I know it's not popular, but I'm in that little camp that believes the point is something in the story, not the prophesy itself.   We will have to agree to disagree on the degree to which TPWTP is entangled with Blood and Fire as we have different interpretations.   Please don't think I'm discounting your point of view out of hand.   Dany was a wreck last we saw her and I look forward to what emerges from her time with the thoughts in her head.  For better or worse, it will be an interesting evolution.   

[Protagoras]

12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

That was so rational.  Last I saw Dany I don't know what she was really thinking with that ghost of Quaithe egging her on and those hallucinations.   As I say, I'm not sold on Blood & Fire meaning abject devastation.   Khal Drogo's khalisar was 100,000 strong, with 40,000 mounted Dothraki.   They split up but they all have to reconvene at Vaes Dothrak.  If it gets to the place where she convinces them that she is THE Khaleesi they will support her, but I'm just not sure how.  Supplies are fast becoming the concern here.   If the Reach is already in Aegon's control the next place with ample food stores would be the Vale.   Maybe that dragon will choke on Little Finger?  

Blood & Fire and The Prince That Was Promised...There is so much of this 3 heads of the dragon involved in Rhaegar's quest for TPTWP--I'm thinking it's important to have 3 dragons at least to land in Westeros with.  Of course, all I really see in the TPTWP deal is a reenactment of Aegon's conquest.  Of course you're right, GRRM isn't likely to make Dany's voyage or landing or time in Westeros easy at all.   I would still rather have the Dothraki refuse to get on ships than lose a dragon.   

Good old Jon Con.   He's so sad about not being a jerk when he had the chance I'm actually rooting for him to get another chance.   I wonder if he will really be able to pull it off.    He's using Tywin as his atrocity model.   Oh this could be great fun.   

Yup, there are many places where Daenerys can land.

I think the horn needs to work somehow. Too much build-up for it otherwise.

[KINGpanther]

4 hours ago, Tucu said:

 

We are seeing the effects that the small Stannis army and wildlings are having on the NW food supply. Four years worth of winter reserves gone in a few months.

F**KING YES; thank you

and when I say stealth I mean Don't invade at all instead take Dragonstone with a small detachment of Unsullied and like Aegon send ravens to Lords of Westeros to ascertain who will join her. And marry fAegon.

[Curled Finger]

13 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

I'm just going to throw out another theory of mine that again kind of plays devil's advocate for Dany. 

What are the odds that after Dany starts moving west (assuming she's going by land like I think she will), Volantis will see the writing on the wall and try to make reform before she gets there? The free men of Volantis have to know what happened to slave owners in Slaver's Bay and they aren't stupid. If they fail to keep her in Mereen, I think they come up with a gradual freedom plan to spare themselves. If every slave in Volantis was freed at once, the city would grind to a halt and descend into chaos, especially since Dany doesn't seem to like cleaning up her own messes. But if they swore that in X years all would be free (kind of like what Tyrion proposed in the show) do you think Dany would accept it and spare the masters? If Volantis tried, and it worked, I think the other Free Cities would follow suit. 

Of course she isn't thinking of logistics. Hell, she probably has no idea winter is coming. I don't think we (posters) aren't seeing the shortsightedness, it's just so blatant we accept it. What's more, no one with her has big-picture campaign experience. Barristan is a soldier, not a general. Tyrion is smart but just not experienced at all in offensive warfare on this scale. Dario is a fine battle commander, but I don't see him as up to planning a continental invasion. She's counting on the good will she's gotten from the smallfolk in Slaver's Bay, which will not happen in Westeros. I think percieved "ungratefulness" on the part of the average Westerosi will be straw that breaks the camels back and sends her into true Targ-style madness. 

And how exactly does one stealthily invade a massive continent? One way or another, your going to have to line 'em up and throw down. And there's absolutely no possible way word won't cross the Narrow Sea of her approach. 

I don't think Volantis or New Ghis really understand Dany's strength in Mereen.   She basically left Astapor for the taking.  It's shaping up to be a real war because they consider her a threat to their way of life.  But I think they think they will simply swat her away and restore Mereen to its former glory.  I can't see them getting ahead of her by getting proactive.    I think they're going down, but not by choice.   Much as I'm loathe to bring any storyline from the show into the conversation, I think they had the right of it.   Tyrion would be the one to pull off a compromise and plan to repoliticise, reeconomize and resocialize Volantis and New Ghis if they remained hostile and downright opposed to foregoing slavery.   I do, however, think it if they did have the foresight to change and offer it as a token of peace Dany would absolutely take it.   

It's not really Dany's job to ponder logistics.   She's got plenty on her plate just doing what she does.   She can't possibly have any idea what real winter is anymore than the enormity of the undertaking of conducting this war, ruling Mereen and Atapor effectively or heading for Westeros.   I'm not bashing her.   She's a conqueror, not a ruler.  How come you don't count Victarion among Dany's crew?  He's there.   Someone's going to have to deal with him?   You're right, she does expect to be embraced in Westeros, but she also knows she's got to conquer there and take the realm.   I don't think she expects it will be easy, but I doubt she understands the sheer epic undertaking before her.  To be fair, I don't think Stannis does either.   Something about these entitled characters doesn't appropriately prepare them for the utter resistance and antipathy they encounter.   Personally I think the lords in Westeros are some of the most despicable characters I've ever read.    They're nasty people.  Here's to Dany burning their roofs and Stannis correcting their speech.   

When I consider "stealth" I was thinking more along the lines of attacking at once in many places.   She's got the might to do it.   If I had Dany's options I would quietly land in the Vale then the Westerlands the the Riverlands.  She will know of both Stannis and Aegon and carve out her own little unclaimed portion of Westeros before taking her show directly to King's Landing to get the measure of Aegon.   Unite or die once the capitol is firmly under control send the troops to the Reach, Stormlands and Dorne.  How many people can actually be left after Euron and Aegon and yes, Jon Con, make their way through the land?   I would bring the Iron Islands to heel then feel the North out to get their measure.   It may be so winter no one wants the North...wait for a more moderate season or let them come crawling for succor.   Stealth was a very poor choice of word.  So start with the most stable, neutral, virgin (hasn't been touched by war) place 1st and work my way out.  I would think that the mere sight of the enormity of her force would be enough to bring some around.   

Lord Vance II, you are a fine devil's advocate.  I will be looking for your topics!  

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, KINGpanther said:

F**KING YES; thank you

and when I say stealth I mean Don't invade at all instead take Dragonstone with a small detachment of Unsullied and like Aegon send ravens to Lords of Westeros to ascertain who will join her. And marry fAegon.

This really would be the smartest way.   My only question is can Dragonstone actually house Dany's horde?   

[Curled Finger]

13 hours ago, Tucu said:

GRRM is setting up a huge famine in Westeros and I guess Dany's army will be fighting on foot soon after her arrival (after eating the horses).

We are seeing the effects that the small Stannis army and wildlings are having on the NW food supply. Four years worth of winter reserves gone in a few months.

You're absolutely right.   Famine is going to fast become a major concern.   Is that alone enough to turn all these warriors into mere survivalists?   

[Tucu]

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

You're absolutely right.   Famine is going to fast become a major concern.   Is that alone enough to turn all these warriors into mere survivalists?   

Well, the wildlings in Hardhome became cannibals in a few weeks; so did Meera, Jojen and Bran (probably) and Stannis' men.

There are no food supplies in the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the North or KL. I doubt that the Reach, the Vale or Dorne can sustain them for long. In a year people will be queuing to be converted into WW.

[PrinceHenryris]

As I read through this thread (which I found entertaining - props OP) I saw many posters say that letting a Dothraki horde loose in Westeroos would cause Dany problems.  How would that be different than Tywin letting the Mountain and the Brave Companions loose in the Riverlands?  

Also, posters have said that no Lord would join with Dany.  Well, unless you've been reading  different books than I have, there are greedy lords and noble houses that are almost always itching for a fight.  Maybe the Florents would side with Dany in an attempt to take Highgarden?  The Blackwoods and the Brackens just need an excuse.

And, of course, there's always the Dragon factor.

[Tucu]

11 hours ago, PrinceHenryris said:

As I read through this thread (which I found entertaining - props OP) I saw many posters say that letting a Dothraki horde loose in Westeroos would cause Dany problems.  How would that be different than Tywin letting the Mountain and the Brave Companions loose in the Riverlands?  

Also, posters have said that no Lord would join with Dany.  Well, unless you've been reading  different books than I have, there are greedy lords and noble houses that are almost always itching for a fight.  Maybe the Florents would side with Dany in an attempt to take Highgarden?  The Blackwoods and the Brackens just need an excuse.

And, of course, there's always the Dragon factor.

She is bringing a 100000 "Brave Companions" in the middle of winter. Tywin's operation was small scale harassing in Summer; Dany's damage will be a 100 times bigger and at the worst possible time. Those that fight will be killed, those that surrender will starve.