A Deeper Look: Analysing Theon's conversation with the Hooded Man

[forod]

The most convincing theory I've heard concerning the identity of the HM, is that the he is really just an extension of Theon's imagination. viewing the text through this lens offers a lot of insight in to the theory. 

"Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face, their eyes met briefly."

The first thing I want to point out is that at no point in the passage is it specified that the man is actually hooded, only that he wears a hooded cloak. In fact, the cloak flaps behind him, implying his face isn't actually covered. Additionally their eyes meet, meaning the HM's eyes aren't shadowed by a hood, and if they are, certainly not enough to obscure his features beyond recognition. Despite this, we get no detail of what he looks like, only what he is like. He 'strides' with purpose and confidence, traits that once belonged to Theon Greyjoy. 

As well as this, it is worth noting he is striding in the "opposite direction". This could be of symbolic importance. The man is imperatively opposite to Reek, he is his own man, "Reek belongs to Ramsay." This is emphasised by two things. The first is the conversation Reek has immediately before this encounter with the HM. it Highlights how low Reek's self-worth and independence are. When told by Damon "Lord Ramsay means to cut your lips off when all this is done", Reek thinks he deserves the punishment. "My lips have been between his Lady's legs. That insolence cannot go unpunished."

This is contrasted by the second thing, the individuality of the Hooded Man. We aren't shown a sigil or colours that he wears, all we are shown is him. He isn't subject to anyone, and he is active, fierce in a way; "The man put a hand on his dagger." He certainly doesn't do this to protect himself from Theon, who is far from intimidating. Even if he suspected Theon of the killings, there is no need for such activity. Maybe it's a warning to Theon, or something similar, but crucially it is a sign of masculinity, control and power, three things Theon has been robbed off. In fact everything about the HM shows Theon what he's lost; Purpose, confidence, identity, individuality, masculinity, power, pride and control. The last one is a significant loss to a proud, highborn man who used to view the world "as a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand", lauding it over the rest. 

I would also like to draw attention to the title of the chaper; A Ghost In Winterfell. We are led to believe Reek is the eponymous ghost, but it is just as likely the Hooded Man, a ghost of the real Theon Greyjoy. 

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer. "I'm not. I never...I was Ironborn. "False is all you were. How is it you still breathe."

The two titles Theon is given are important. They demonstrate how the world sees him, or perhaps, only Theon's perception of how the world sees him. If the HM is only Theon's subconscious, then he is debating with himself, determining what he has really become. Theon knows he is not a Kinslayer, in that he did not kill Bran and Rickon. But equally, he believes himself to be a turncloak. 

"The Gods are not done with me...Lord Ramsay is not done with me". 

Theon believes and acknowledges that he deserves punishment, this can only be so if he feels he is guilty, which he therefore must.  

"The man looked, and laughed. I leave you to him, then."

It would be very be typical of the real Theon Greyjoy, to laugh at something like this, but he is not. See, the whole exchange awakens something in Theon. He starts to see that he has a reason to live, to atone for what he has done. Originally, Theon thought that atonement lay in punishment, but what the HM shows him is not only who he used to be, but that atonement does not lie in punishment, but in activity; he needs to do something to put things to right, not be sufficiently wronged. And when the HM asks Reek "How is it you still breathe" it is a deeper question than 'how has no-one slit your throat yet'. Theon is asking himself why he is still alive, what's the point of surviving? And though Theonesq, the HM's laughter is not directed at the pathetic nature of Theon, but at his notion of why he is still alive. The real Theon knows why he is still alive, to redeem himself, not just to suffer. He knows that if he is not acting, not recapturing who he is, then he is not living, but only a Ghost In Winterfell.. 

In this sense, for once, Theon Greyjoy really is prior to "a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand."

[forod]

Also want to add that there is evidence for this in the next Theon Chapter. The title changes from AGIW to Theon, indicating he is recapturing his identity. 

[dariopatke]

I still cant believe that you convinced me this is who HM is. I always thought it is Robett Glover and I actually never got that much deep into theory that Theon is hooded man, it seemed silly to me, but not anymore. Great job you did there!

[INCBlackbird]

5 hours ago, forod said:

The most convincing theory I've heard concerning the identity of the HM, is that the he is really just an extension of Theon's imagination. viewing the text through this lens offers a lot of insight in to the theory. 

"Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face, their eyes met briefly."

The first thing I want to point out is that at no point in the passage is it specified that the man is actually hooded, only that he wears a hooded cloak. In fact, the cloak flaps behind him, implying his face isn't actually covered. Additionally their eyes meet, meaning the HM's eyes aren't shadowed by a hood, and if they are, certainly not enough to obscure his features beyond recognition. Despite this, we get no detail of what he looks like, only what he is like. He 'strides' with purpose and confidence, traits that once belonged to Theon Greyjoy. 

As well as this, it is worth noting he is striding in the "opposite direction". This could be of symbolic importance. The man is imperatively opposite to Reek, he is his own man, "Reek belongs to Ramsay." This is emphasised by two things. The first is the conversation Reek has immediately before this encounter with the HM. it Highlights how low Reek's self-worth and independence are. When told by Damon "Lord Ramsay means to cut your lips off when all this is done", Reek thinks he deserves the punishment. "My lips have been between his Lady's legs. That insolence cannot go unpunished."

This is contrasted by the second thing, the individuality of the Hooded Man. We aren't shown a sigil or colours that he wears, all we are shown is him. He isn't subject to anyone, and he is active, fierce in a way; "The man put a hand on his dagger." He certainly doesn't do this to protect himself from Theon, who is far from intimidating. Even if he suspected Theon of the killings, there is no need for such activity. Maybe it's a warning to Theon, or something similar, but crucially it is a sign of masculinity, control and power, three things Theon has been robbed off. In fact everything about the HM shows Theon what he's lost; Purpose, confidence, identity, individuality, masculinity, power, pride and control. The last one is a significant loss to a proud, highborn man who used to view the world "as a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand", lauding it over the rest. 

I would also like to draw attention to the title of the chaper; A Ghost In Winterfell. We are led to believe Reek is the eponymous ghost, but it is just as likely the Hooded Man, a ghost of the real Theon Greyjoy. 

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer. "I'm not. I never...I was Ironborn. "False is all you were. How is it you still breathe."

The two titles Theon is given are important. They demonstrate how the world sees him, or perhaps, only Theon's perception of how the world sees him. If the HM is only Theon's subconscious, then he is debating with himself, determining what he has really become. Theon knows he is not a Kinslayer, in that he did not kill Bran and Rickon. But equally, he believes himself to be a turncloak. 

"The Gods are not done with me...Lord Ramsay is not done with me". 

Theon believes and acknowledges that he deserves punishment, this can only be so if he feels he is guilty, which he therefore must.  

"The man looked, and laughed. I leave you to him, then."

It would be very be typical of the real Theon Greyjoy, to laugh at something like this, but he is not. See, the whole exchange awakens something in Theon. He starts to see that he has a reason to live, to atone for what he has done. Originally, Theon thought that atonement lay in punishment, but what the HM shows him is not only who he used to be, but that atonement does not lie in punishment, but in activity; he needs to do something to put things to right, not be sufficiently wronged. And when the HM asks Reek "How is it you still breathe" it is a deeper question than 'how has no-one slit your throat yet'. Theon is asking himself why he is still alive, what's the point of surviving? And though Theonesq, the HM's laughter is not directed at the pathetic nature of Theon, but at his notion of why he is still alive. The real Theon knows why he is still alive, to redeem himself, not just to suffer. He knows that if he is not acting, not recapturing who he is, then he is not living, but only a Ghost In Winterfell.. 

In this sense, for once, Theon Greyjoy really is prior to "a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand."

wow!! very nice analysis! makes a lot of sense characer wise. I love how you point out that the HM acts like the old Theon would have. That said, I still hope it's not true. I'm not really looking for who it is till we have an answer cause i'm not one for Theories but I'm kinda hoping that the HM was an actual person, if he's not though I'll definitly come to reread this analysis cause it's very interesting.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

6 hours ago, forod said:

The first thing I want to point out is that at no point in the passage is it specified that the man is actually hooded, only that he wears a hooded cloak.

Damn, I literally just noticed this after re-reading the chapter and was going to raise it on here, but you beat me to it!

I like this analysis, it genuinely fits. I never really bought most of the theories about who the Hooded Man was, the main ones I think are Glover, the Black Fish, and Hallis Mollen, but I think Reek/Theon would have recognised any of those with or without a hood being up. That leads me to think that the Hooded Man is either Theon himself (and your arguments for that have me almost completely convinced), or someone he doesn't know. 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

So who killed all those men in such.... Gruesome and how could Theon make it/accomplish this so easily?? 

Never been a fan of this theory for only that reason 

[dariopatke]

8 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

So who killed all those men in such.... Gruesome and how could Theon make it/accomplish this so easily?? 

Never been a fan of this theory for only that reason 

Didn't spearwives kill them all except little Walder?

[INCBlackbird]

7 minutes ago, dariopatke said:

Didn't spearwives kill them all except little Walder?

I don't know if they killed them all but certainly some and big Walder killed little Walder so actually this would make sense! We've always just assumed that the HM was the killer. I mean at least I did, I never even questioned it but now I'm suddenly like "well... not nessacarily"

[Balerion's Whiskers]

I'm in the Hallis Mollen camp myself. Theon, despite all of the torture and mental cruelty hasn't really had a psychotic episode. He seems to be fully aware of what is happening and his observations are accurate about what is going on around him. I can't see a mental break without some other indicators. He sees nuances in facial expressions and knows that there's secrets all around him.

The title of the chapter is The Ghost in Winterfell....and I do think Theon is that Ghost, (capitalized) but with GRRM, things don't have just one meaning and there are multiple other 'ghosts' there too.

I think Theon knows who he is talking to. If you read this carefully, there is no sign that he does not know the man. He does not give us a name...but he's not looking at a stranger. The man calls him Theon...only a Winterfell man would do that right now. I believe Theon may be thinking he's seeing a ghost (another ghost in Winterfell)This man should be dead...he either went south with Ned, or went South with Robb and here he is standing across from Theon. Now this guy may not matter a fig when it comes to the story...he may walk right out of the scene, never to return and we've made a mountain out of a molehill...but I personally think he has a part to play in the next book.

My reasoning for it being Hallis...

1. Catelyn sent him north with Ned's bones and we've not heard a word from him since.

2. Little Walder was killed and Mance's women denied having a hand in it. It was said that the kid was dicing and won some money that he wanted to collect...10 year old kids winning dice money from hardened soldiers??? Sounds like a set up to me...and this means one less Frey in the world.

In Catelyn's small corner of the camp, Shadd was slicing carrots into a kettle, Hal Mollen was dicing with three of his Winterfell men, and Lucas Blackwood sat sharpening his dagger. "Lady Stark," Lucas said when he saw her, "Mollen says it is to be battle at dawn."

"Under that ruined keep, my lord," replied Big Walder. "The one with the old gargoyles." The boy's gloves were caked with his cousin's blood. "I told him not to go out alone, but he said he had to find a man who owed him silver."


"He never said, my lord. Only that he won the coin at dice." The Frey boy hesitated. "It was some White Harbor men who taught dice. I couldn't say which ones, but it was them."

White Harbor men? Well, there is a mummer's farce being played out, but it might just be Big Walder looking for someone to blame. Regardless, Mollen was a known dicer and Little Walder went to collect on a dice debt. I know all the soldiers diced, but GRRM was especially careful to let us know that Hal did.

The dicing thing just seems like a set up to me. Soldiers teaching a kid to dice might let him win a few coppers to get him excited....but silver???? I don't think so. There's more to that story and getting the Freys to explode might bring things to a head...which it did. The whole dicing incident smells of a set-up.

GRRM likes to give us Easter eggs and hints...that's why his books take so long and why I'm personally not buying the Theon Durden theory. There isn't any indication that Theon has had a mental break, sure he has PTSD and been tortured within an inch of his life, but his inner monologue and how others interact with him gives me no hint of that...if someone has textural proof, I'll reconsider. Bran gave him his name back when he prayed at the heart tree. After that Theon always thinks of himself as Theon.

3. When Theon meets the hooded man, he's not afraid and even takes his glove off to show his maimed hand unbidden.


Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. "Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer." "I'm not. I never … I was ironborn."
"False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?" "The gods are not done with me," Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick's cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell's groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. "Lord Ramsay is not done with me."
The man looked, and laughed. "I leave you to him, then."
It was shortly after that that he balked when Lady Dustin asked the same thing.

Lady Dustin spoke up. "Take off your gloves."
Theon glanced up sharply. "Please, no. I … I …"

Whoever it was, I think Theon thought he was seeing a ghost...someone who shouldn't be there and should probably be dead. Mollen would have had the know-how to make it north unseen...(Lady Dustin claimed she was keeping a watch) It could be that he went to White Harbor instead of Moat Cailin and Manderly brought him to Winterfell with his entourage. I also think that Lady Dustin is proclaiming her hatred of the Starks a bit too loudly and a bit too often to be entirely believable...but that is neither here nor there.

4. Catelyn thinks how Hal always says obvious things. This seems in keeping with how the conversation goes between Theon.
"A tourney," Hal Mollen declared. He had a penchant for loudly announcing the obvious.

The HM called him a Turncloak and Kinslayer...Winterfell retainers would know about Theon's wenching habits...Manderly knows that Bran and Rickon live. GRRM has said that even kinslaying unknowingly is cursed...I do think one of the miller's boys might have been Theon's. So anyone who would be in Manderly's inner circle would know that Theon didn't kill the Starks.

Harwin is my second choice. He was the last Winterfell man to see Arya alive and LSH could have sent him north when word of 'Arya's' wedding reached the Riverlands. It is either Hal or Harwin that is standing with LSH at Briennne's trial, so the other one could be headed north. My first choce is still Hallis, but Harwin is a possibility. Depending on the timeline, when Lady Stoneheart confronts Brienne, there's a young northman translating for her...I think that's Harwin. He's with the BWB already, so it stands to reason that he's the one doing the translating. He's also the last Stark retainer to have laid eyes on the real Arya, so could have been sent north to see the Bolton's Arya. I'm just not sure of the timeline.

Either one of these choices would have known Winterfell and how to maneuver unseen.

 

We last see Robett Glover at White Harbor where Lord Manderly is playing out his mummer's farce with the Freys. Robett could have tagged along with his troops disguised...and he would have known Theon, but the northmen would have known of his wenching habits. (thus, the miller's wife)

Anyway, that's my take on the Hooded Man.

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 hours ago, forod said:

The most convincing theory I've heard concerning the identity of the HM, is that the he is really just an extension of Theon's imagination. viewing the text through this lens offers a lot of insight in to the theory. 

"Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face, their eyes met briefly."

The first thing I want to point out is that at no point in the passage is it specified that the man is actually hooded, only that he wears a hooded cloak. In fact, the cloak flaps behind him, implying his face isn't actually covered. Additionally their eyes meet, meaning the HM's eyes aren't shadowed by a hood, and if they are, certainly not enough to obscure his features beyond recognition. Despite this, we get no detail of what he looks like, only what he is like. He 'strides' with purpose and confidence, traits that once belonged to Theon Greyjoy. 

As well as this, it is worth noting he is striding in the "opposite direction". This could be of symbolic importance. The man is imperatively opposite to Reek, he is his own man, "Reek belongs to Ramsay." This is emphasised by two things. The first is the conversation Reek has immediately before this encounter with the HM. it Highlights how low Reek's self-worth and independence are. When told by Damon "Lord Ramsay means to cut your lips off when all this is done", Reek thinks he deserves the punishment. "My lips have been between his Lady's legs. That insolence cannot go unpunished."

This is contrasted by the second thing, the individuality of the Hooded Man. We aren't shown a sigil or colours that he wears, all we are shown is him. He isn't subject to anyone, and he is active, fierce in a way; "The man put a hand on his dagger." He certainly doesn't do this to protect himself from Theon, who is far from intimidating. Even if he suspected Theon of the killings, there is no need for such activity. Maybe it's a warning to Theon, or something similar, but crucially it is a sign of masculinity, control and power, three things Theon has been robbed off. In fact everything about the HM shows Theon what he's lost; Purpose, confidence, identity, individuality, masculinity, power, pride and control. The last one is a significant loss to a proud, highborn man who used to view the world "as a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand", lauding it over the rest. 

I would also like to draw attention to the title of the chaper; A Ghost In Winterfell. We are led to believe Reek is the eponymous ghost, but it is just as likely the Hooded Man, a ghost of the real Theon Greyjoy. 

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer. "I'm not. I never...I was Ironborn. "False is all you were. How is it you still breathe."

The two titles Theon is given are important. They demonstrate how the world sees him, or perhaps, only Theon's perception of how the world sees him. If the HM is only Theon's subconscious, then he is debating with himself, determining what he has really become. Theon knows he is not a Kinslayer, in that he did not kill Bran and Rickon. But equally, he believes himself to be a turncloak. 

"The Gods are not done with me...Lord Ramsay is not done with me". 

Theon believes and acknowledges that he deserves punishment, this can only be so if he feels he is guilty, which he therefore must.  

"The man looked, and laughed. I leave you to him, then."

It would be very be typical of the real Theon Greyjoy, to laugh at something like this, but he is not. See, the whole exchange awakens something in Theon. He starts to see that he has a reason to live, to atone for what he has done. Originally, Theon thought that atonement lay in punishment, but what the HM shows him is not only who he used to be, but that atonement does not lie in punishment, but in activity; he needs to do something to put things to right, not be sufficiently wronged. And when the HM asks Reek "How is it you still breathe" it is a deeper question than 'how has no-one slit your throat yet'. Theon is asking himself why he is still alive, what's the point of surviving? And though Theonesq, the HM's laughter is not directed at the pathetic nature of Theon, but at his notion of why he is still alive. The real Theon knows why he is still alive, to redeem himself, not just to suffer. He knows that if he is not acting, not recapturing who he is, then he is not living, but only a Ghost In Winterfell.. 

In this sense, for once, Theon Greyjoy really is prior to "a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand."

What he said. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

49 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

So who killed all those men in such.... Gruesome and how could Theon make it/accomplish this so easily?? 

Never been a fan of this theory for only that reason 

Big Walder killed Little Walder, and Able's washer women did for the rest. 

[estermonty python]

I don't disagree with anything said here, just wanted to pipe in to add that Big Walder killing Little Walder is more unconfirmed canon than a mere theory, in my view, mostly because, in addition to making character sense, Big Walder's hands are bloody when they come in with the body despite the fact that Little Walder's body was frozen, meaning that they would have had to have gotten bloody before then.

[forod]

Wow guys, thanks for all the compliments, and the interesting additions! I never thought about BW killing LW, but could be true.

[King Edd of House Tollet]

Nicely done, I am also believe the HM to be a Theon delusion of his past self

[forod]

2 hours ago, Balerion's Whiskers said:

I'm in the Hallis Mollen camp myself. Theon, despite all of the torture and mental cruelty hasn't really had a psychotic episode. He seems to be fully aware of what is happening and his observations are accurate about what is going on around him. I can't see a mental break without some other indicators. He sees nuances in facial expressions and knows that there's secrets all around him.

The title of the chapter is The Ghost in Winterfell....and I do think Theon is that Ghost, (capitalized) but with GRRM, things don't have just one meaning and there are multiple other 'ghosts' there too.

I think Theon knows who he is talking to. If you read this carefully, there is no sign that he does not know the man. He does not give us a name...but he's not looking at a stranger. The man calls him Theon...only a Winterfell man would do that right now. I believe Theon may be thinking he's seeing a ghost (another ghost in Winterfell)This man should be dead...he either went south with Ned, or went South with Robb and here he is standing across from Theon. Now this guy may not matter a fig when it comes to the story...he may walk right out of the scene, never to return and we've made a mountain out of a molehill...but I personally think he has a part to play in the next book.

My reasoning for it being Hallis...

1. Catelyn sent him north with Ned's bones and we've not heard a word from him since.

2. Little Walder was killed and Mance's women denied having a hand in it. It was said that the kid was dicing and won some money that he wanted to collect...10 year old kids winning dice money from hardened soldiers??? Sounds like a set up to me...and this means one less Frey in the world.

In Catelyn's small corner of the camp, Shadd was slicing carrots into a kettle, Hal Mollen was dicing with three of his Winterfell men, and Lucas Blackwood sat sharpening his dagger. "Lady Stark," Lucas said when he saw her, "Mollen says it is to be battle at dawn."

"Under that ruined keep, my lord," replied Big Walder. "The one with the old gargoyles." The boy's gloves were caked with his cousin's blood. "I told him not to go out alone, but he said he had to find a man who owed him silver."


"He never said, my lord. Only that he won the coin at dice." The Frey boy hesitated. "It was some White Harbor men who taught dice. I couldn't say which ones, but it was them."

White Harbor men? Well, there is a mummer's farce being played out, but it might just be Big Walder looking for someone to blame. Regardless, Mollen was a known dicer and Little Walder went to collect on a dice debt. I know all the soldiers diced, but GRRM was especially careful to let us know that Hal did.

The dicing thing just seems like a set up to me. Soldiers teaching a kid to dice might let him win a few coppers to get him excited....but silver???? I don't think so. There's more to that story and getting the Freys to explode might bring things to a head...which it did. The whole dicing incident smells of a set-up.

GRRM likes to give us Easter eggs and hints...that's why his books take so long and why I'm personally not buying the Theon Durden theory. There isn't any indication that Theon has had a mental break, sure he has PTSD and been tortured within an inch of his life, but his inner monologue and how others interact with him gives me no hint of that...if someone has textural proof, I'll reconsider. Bran gave him his name back when he prayed at the heart tree. After that Theon always thinks of himself as Theon.

3. When Theon meets the hooded man, he's not afraid and even takes his glove off to show his maimed hand unbidden.


Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. "Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer." "I'm not. I never … I was ironborn."
"False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?" "The gods are not done with me," Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick's cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell's groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. "Lord Ramsay is not done with me."
The man looked, and laughed. "I leave you to him, then."
It was shortly after that that he balked when Lady Dustin asked the same thing.

Lady Dustin spoke up. "Take off your gloves."
Theon glanced up sharply. "Please, no. I … I …"

Whoever it was, I think Theon thought he was seeing a ghost...someone who shouldn't be there and should probably be dead. Mollen would have had the know-how to make it north unseen...(Lady Dustin claimed she was keeping a watch) It could be that he went to White Harbor instead of Moat Cailin and Manderly brought him to Winterfell with his entourage. I also think that Lady Dustin is proclaiming her hatred of the Starks a bit too loudly and a bit too often to be entirely believable...but that is neither here nor there.

4. Catelyn thinks how Hal always says obvious things. This seems in keeping with how the conversation goes between Theon.
"A tourney," Hal Mollen declared. He had a penchant for loudly announcing the obvious.

The HM called him a Turncloak and Kinslayer...Winterfell retainers would know about Theon's wenching habits...Manderly knows that Bran and Rickon live. GRRM has said that even kinslaying unknowingly is cursed...I do think one of the miller's boys might have been Theon's. So anyone who would be in Manderly's inner circle would know that Theon didn't kill the Starks.

Harwin is my second choice. He was the last Winterfell man to see Arya alive and LSH could have sent him north when word of 'Arya's' wedding reached the Riverlands. It is either Hal or Harwin that is standing with LSH at Briennne's trial, so the other one could be headed north. My first choce is still Hallis, but Harwin is a possibility. Depending on the timeline, when Lady Stoneheart confronts Brienne, there's a young northman translating for her...I think that's Harwin. He's with the BWB already, so it stands to reason that he's the one doing the translating. He's also the last Stark retainer to have laid eyes on the real Arya, so could have been sent north to see the Bolton's Arya. I'm just not sure of the timeline.

Either one of these choices would have known Winterfell and how to maneuver unseen.

 

We last see Robett Glover at White Harbor where Lord Manderly is playing out his mummer's farce with the Freys. Robett could have tagged along with his troops disguised...and he would have known Theon, but the northmen would have known of his wenching habits. (thus, the miller's wife)

Anyway, that's my take on the Hooded Man.

I will say, the dicing you picked up on is a really interesting notion, but equally all soldiers dice, so not sure what to make of it. About the Kinslaying insult. While I like the subtle nuance of Theon's potential unknowing kinslaying, I've never been sold by the theory. The main reason, in this case at least, I'm disinclined to think the Kinslayer insult is pertaining to the Miller's boys, is that a Winterfell retainer, as you suggest the HM is, would not be outraged by Theon unknowingly killing his own sons. However they would be furious if they believed he killed two sons of Winterfell, who were as good as brothers to him. The hatred and disgust the HM displays don't match an obscure, unknowing crime, but fit a conscious, informed crime of the same degree better.  

[King Ned Stark]

First of all, nice job @forod, I've never been a big fan of Theon Durden simply because, well, I suppose the inner Stark in me wants it to be a Stark supporter (but I guess if we're picking nits then Theon at this point is a Stark supporter).  You've pushed me towards it be Theon having a dissociative episode.

Two things, and maybe I'm misremembering as I don't have aDwD on me:

1 - I thought the Hooded Man reached for his dagger because he thought Theon might recognize him and raise the alarm, and he might have to silence him.

2 - Because I thought Umber's horns started shortly after?  As in the Hooded man was going to send some kind of signal.  Again, this is from my shoddy memory, but didn't the first horn "hang" over Winterfell, like maybe it was sounded from inside?

I didn't get to read @Balerions Whiskers post because my 4 year old wants me to play with him, so maybe he answered this, if not I'd like to hear your (or anyone's) opinion/correction on this.  Will try to read Balerions Whiskers post later.

[gregg22]

Im still not convinced on this theory. For me the dialogue is wrong if he is talking to his former self.

"Theon turncloak, Theon Kinslayer"

Why would Theon name himself one thing which he knows is true (turncloak) then one thing he knows is not (kinslayer)? But more importantly, is his response, " I was Ironborn" He is peretuating a lie here by arguing he cannot be a kinslayer because Bran and Rickon are not his kin. The truth is that he didnt even kill them at all, kin or not. If he is talking to another side if himself, why protect this lie? Even if you believe the millers boys were Theons, why continue to lie?

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

This debate keeps coming up. It's always a good one.

Here is a good thread from a cope of years ago. 

Here's my reasoning for Theon Durden...

Would a recognizable Glover, Mollen, or other Stark loyalist be striding around occupied Winterfell if he were striking folks down from the shadows? No, this is a brave and haughty man confronting Reek face-to-face. He was wearing a hooded cloak just like Theon was at the beginning of Theon I in Clash.

Second, Mance's spearwives tacitly admitted to the killings except for Little Walder so there is no Stark loyalist sneaking around and killing Boltons and Freys.

Third, the Hooded Man is walking in the opposite direction. This is the ghost of Theon's former self. Reek's character is completely opposite to Theon's.

Fourth, Theon thought of Robb as a brother, making Robb's brothers his own. He dreamed of wedding Sansa, becoming their brother and Ned's son in truth. Of course he betrayed Robb and held out that he had murdered his brothers. (False is all he ever was.) Accordingly his former self named him Turncloak and Kinslayer. Theon who had been chastised by his father for naming Robb a brother meekly denied the kinslaying title not because he didn't actually kill the Stark boys but because he was not actually a Stark. But the ghost of his former self knew better.

Fifth, Reek's lack of fear was odd because he had been afraid of everyone ever since he had become Reek. But he had no reason to fear his own ghost. 

Sixth, he always took care to conceal his maimed hands but to the ghost of his former self he displayed the proof that he was no longer who he had been.

Finally, consider Theon's ark and the progression of the titles of his POV chapters from Clash and through Dance. He was Theon and became Reek, until something awakened in The Prince of Winterfell. Then he was the Turncloak just as his former self accused him in the next chapter, A Ghost in Winterfell. And then he was Theon again.

[forod]

8 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

First of all, nice job @forod, I've never been a big fan of Theon Durden simply because, well, I suppose the inner Stark in me wants it to be a Stark supporter (but I guess if we're picking nits then Theon at this point is a Stark supporter).  You've pushed me towards it be Theon having a dissociative episode.

Two things, and maybe I'm misremembering as I don't have aDwD on me:

1 - I thought the Hooded Man reached for his dagger because he thought Theon might recognize him and raise the alarm, and he might have to silence him.

2 - Because I thought Umber's horns started shortly after?  As in the Hooded man was going to send some kind of signal.  Again, this is from my shoddy memory, but didn't the first horn "hang" over Winterfell, like maybe it was sounded from inside?

I didn't get to read @Balerions Whiskers post because my 4 year old wants me to play with him, so maybe he answered this, if not I'd like to hear your (or anyone's) opinion/correction on this.  Will try to read Balerions Whiskers post later.

Thanks! It's an interesting point, the horn does sound a few pages later, but I can't see any reason he might need to silence Theon. They meet in the middle of a courtyard, not on the battlements, from where a signal would be given. And if the HM feared Theon would see him in the courtyard, connect him with the horn sounding, and tell somebody, then why stop to talk to Theon and threaten him, causing him to suspect him of being the one trying to destabilise things in Winterfell, and all but confirm he's an opponent of the Boltons. Not talking to him would make more sense if he wanted to avoid attention and perform a signal. People were constantly crossing the courtyard, another one passing Theon, obscured by the snow, wouldn't be very suspicious.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Good catch!

Though I used to think that HM was Howland Reed. He is Stark loyalist, he posses some magic skill so he could easily disguise himself. Besides that the misterious deathes in Winterfell fit crannogmen tactics.