Chaircat Meow Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Canada kicked our ass once, it could happen again. And what the fuck are you on about anyways? You live on a fucking Island, no? When Putin has sent in the troops he's at least done so to uphold Russian power in its borderlands (Georgia/Ukraine). The US would do the same if faced with a similar situation. On the other hand the US has aided and abetted the UK and France in screwing up Libya, for no discernible reason, and is currently living in a castle in the clouds wrt Syria, while Putin at least has a plan which might work there. Easy to see why some people 'admire' a hard headed strongman when confronted with the deluded crop of muppets who mishandle western foreign policy at every turn. It is a low bar though. I'm not sure this is why Trump admires Putin admittedly, but it could be true for Trump's supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, mormont said: So you're looking at recent events in the Russian sphere of influence and somehow concluding that it's the Russians who're vulnerable to invasion? Yes, the Cold War is over. It's been over for a generation. At present, Russia doesn't present as big a threat to US interests as it did during the Cold War... but it does present a bigger threat than it has done at any time since the end of the Cold War. Yeah. If Russia was so worried about invasion maybe they should not go about rattling their sabres at everyone. 'Course then they'd have to worry about getting shit fixed at home or revolution. But lets blame the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Chaircat Meow said: When Putin has sent in the troops he's at least done so to uphold Russian power in its borderlands (Georgia/Ukraine). The US would do the same if faced with a similar situation. On the other hand the US has aided and abetted the UK and France in screwing up Libya, for no discernible reason, and is currently living in a castle in the clouds wrt Syria, while Putin at least has a plan which might work there. Easy to see why some people 'admire' a hard headed strongman when confronted with the deluded crop of muppets who mishandle western foreign policy at every turn. It is a low bar though. I'm not sure this is why Trump admires Putin admittedly, but it could be true for Trump's supporters. Most of my problems with him center on him jailing political opponents and journalists. What Russia does in its' own backyard militarily doesn't really concern me much. I would say Trump supporters don't really admire Putin at all, outside of him being a perceived foil for Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Most of my problems with him center on him jailing political opponents and journalists. What Russia does in its' own backyard militarily doesn't really concern me much. I would say Trump supporters don't really admire Putin at all, outside of him being a perceived foil for Obama. That is a weird set of priorities. You don't mind about the mercenaries he's sending to Ukraine but do care about a bit of domestic repression? It is not like the US is not friendly with other countries which do practice lots of domestic repression is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said: That is a weird set of priorities. You don't mind about the mercenaries he's sending to Ukraine but do care about a bit of domestic repression? It is not like the US is not friendly with other countries which do practice lots of domestic repression is it? Frankly I'm done with the US playing World Police with its' military. Again, what Russia does in its' own backyard is of little importance to me. As far as criticizing Putin for repressive policies, yes that bothers me. It bothers me that we have friendly relations with oppressive dictatorships as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Mexal said: USA military is probably scared of Russia. With all the US boasting about their toys all they've done with them since wwii is beat up on 3rd world shit holes. Russia could actually put up a fight. I don't think they want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 27 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said: I'm pretty sure that most of Trump's supporters (or Clinton's for that matter) don't have much of a clue as to Russia's recent foreign policy moves. Most likely, Putin's admirers among Trump supporters likely comes from the talking-head parade of conservative pundits who crow about how Putin Gets-Things-Done while our Apologizer-in-Chief gets his ass handed to him. Very likely true. Likewise, Clinton supporters likely lack the understanding of the part she's played here, and are likely simply listening to DNC talking points about the risk of Putin starting an OMG NUCULER WARRRZZ and OMG RUZZIAN SPIEZZ!!! Culture of fear, indeed. Pretty fascinating to me how the Democrats have dusted off and recycled their own brand of McCarthyism this election cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 26 minutes ago, BloodRider said: ITS STILL HIS FUCKING POSITION NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE CONGRESS DO, YOU DUPE. I am so fucking tired of being told that shit that is right in front of my face is not there. Trump is a liar, and Altherion is too. No word on if they have the self awareness to know if they are fooling themselves, lying with full knowledge they are lying, or some combo of both What's with the all-caps? We are discussing hypothetical scenarios. My point was that Trump is clearly overstating his ability to get things done and even if he was elected, he would need to make substantial modifications to his positions even with a Republican Congress (in fact, he has already made significant modifications to his immigration policy). Of course, we're not likely to ever find out what he would really do -- there is currently no method of measurement which has him winning. 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: I think the Putin stuff perplexes me the most......he explicitly says "yea he's alright, I respect him, he's way better than our president"......how is this not political suicide in the US? We actually have a dedicated thread on Putin. The short answer is that it's not political suicide because, by any objective measure except those related to human rights, that statement of Trump's is undoubtedly correct. Putin started off with a complete train wreck (more than an order of magnitude worse than even the Great Recession) and has somehow transformed it into something that has to be taken seriously despite its small resource base. Obama started off with the most powerful country in the world and has succeeded mainly in sowing chaos in the Middle East and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I am literally worried sick now. I want to believe that polls are unreliable at this point and that the latino vote is being undercounted, but I also don't want to be given false confidence by being in an echo chamber / false reality like the Romney supporters were in 2012. I want to see things for how they are, but doing so may very well show Trump is catching up fast and may be able to lap Clinton by Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Altherion said: What's with the all-caps? On the internet it means ur fucking serious and you mean business. No playin around. NO JOKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, drawkcabi said: I am literally worried sick now. I want to believe that polls are unreliable at this point and that the latino vote is being undercounted, but I also don't want to be given false confidence by being in an echo chamber / false reality like the Romney supporters were in 2012. I want to see things for how they are, but doing so may very well show Trump is catching up fast and may be able to lap Clinton by Tuesday. Yeah, same. I literally haven't been able to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I really do not understand how Trump is supposedly catching up so quickly. I really have a hard time believing the polls and that he made such a historic jump. I am very cynical about this country and the deplorable demographics that infest it, but that is a new low to accept and believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Oh this is comforting.........https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 23 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Yeah, same. I literally haven't been able to sleep. Eh, I really don't think Trump is going to win. I'll be quite surprised if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, S John said: Eh, I really don't think Trump is going to win. I'll be quite surprised if he does. The fact that he could and every day since last Friday seems to be getting closer, sometimes by inches, sometimes by feet, is enough to put me in a freefall spiral of anxiety. I want this to be over so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, drawkcabi said: The fact that he could and every day since last Friday seems to be getting closer, sometimes by inches, sometimes by feet, is enough to put me in a freefall spiral of anxiety. I want this to be over so bad. Yea, I mean it could happen. It baffles me that its this close, especially if you think about it group by group - Trump is not going to win the vote for latino, black, women, LGBT, young people, college educated whites, urban dwellers, etc. Like.. how is this even close? He's got old farts, the rural vote, and uneducated whites in his corner. Not a negligible demographic to be sure, but I feel like if people just get off their ass and turn out to vote there isn't much of a path for Trump no matter what the polls are saying. I was encouraged that at my polling place in TX the line was out the door for early voting, and I'm no mind reader as to how the people in my area are going to vote, but East Austin isn't Trump country. We'll see, but I would try to avoid getting too worked up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 47 minutes ago, Altherion said: Obama started off with the most powerful country in the world and has succeeded mainly in sowing chaos in the Middle East and elsewhere. Obama started with what was arguably the largest economic disaster in this country since the Great Depression. And was left to pick up a situation in the Middle East that he had nothing to do with. What the fuck are you even talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 47 minutes ago, Altherion said: What's with the all-caps? We are discussing hypothetical scenarios. I didn't type in all-caps. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 36 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: I really do not understand how Trump is supposedly catching up so quickly. I really have a hard time believing the polls and that he made such a historic jump. I am very cynical about this country and the deplorable demographics that infest it, but that is a new low to accept and believe. The simple answer is that while Clinton had a lead, the total between the two was never more than 90% - and was often something like 80-85%. That's a lot of people out there who had been 'undecided'. And most of them were likely Republicans. As has been stated repeatedly, 90% of all Democrats said they'd vote for Clinton; 80% or less said they'd vote for Trump. As we get closer to the election, those Republicans are coming home. It's not that weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Obama started with what was arguably the largest economic disaster in this country since the Great Depression. And was left to pick up a situation in the Middle East that he had nothing to do with. What the fuck are you even talking about? He's just doing his best alt right impression. 4 minutes ago, Kalbear said: The simple answer is that while Clinton had a lead, the total between the two was never more than 90% - and was often something like 80-85%. That's a lot of people out there who had been 'undecided'. And most of them were likely Republicans. As has been stated repeatedly, 90% of all Democrats said they'd vote for Clinton; 80% or less said they'd vote for Trump. As we get closer to the election, those Republicans are coming home. It's not that weird. So pieces of shit stay pieces of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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