I thought Lysa/Petyr sent the assassin after Bran?

[ravenous reader]

21 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Perhaps you are right. Maybe she was just as paranoid before the PW. I had forgotten about Melara.

But I'm stil not ready to sat she was responsible for the attempt on Bran. Although you have me closer now...

I agree, the evidence is scanty.  I'm mostly basing it on my assessment of Cersei's and Robert's characters, together with my faith in GRRM's fidelity of characterisation.  I don't think he makes many sloppy errors -- certainly not a gross omission of this kind -- although I may sometimes joke about the possibility facetiously!  

Despite all Robert's flaws -- and I've been critical of them -- it's just not in his character to speak so flippantly about putting Ned's son down, after he's just been sincerely mourning with Ned and Catelyn, hoping for Bran's miraculous recovery; just as it's not in Cersei's character to leave her fate up to another without launching a paranoid intervention.  

It's especially suspicious that the sentiment attributed (I believe falsely) to Robert is almost identical to Cersei's spontaneous reaction (expressing the desired 'mercy' of a quick death for lingering children) the morning following the fall from the tower upon discovering for the first time from Tyrion that Bran was clinging to life (an unexpected revelation which appears to have startled her and Jaime, indicating this would have predated Robert briefing her on the subject of Bran's progress).  What would be the odds of Robert and Cersei independently reaching spontaneous agreement on anything, let alone their language patterns overlapping?

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

21 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I agree, the evidence is scanty.  I'm mostly basing it on my assessment of Cersei's and Robert's characters, together with my faith in GRRM's fidelity of characterisation.  I don't think he makes many sloppy errors -- certainly not a gross omission of this kind -- although I may sometimes joke about the possibility facetiously!  

Despite all Robert's flaws -- and I've been critical of them -- it's just not in his character to speak so flippantly about putting Ned's son down, after he's just been sincerely mourning with Ned and Catelyn, hoping for Bran's miraculous recovery; just as it's not in Cersei's character to leave her fate up to another without launching a paranoid intervention.  

It's especially suspicious that the sentiment attributed (I believe falsely) to Robert is almost identical to Cersei's spontaneous reaction (expressing the desired 'mercy' of a quick death for lingering children) the morning following the fall from the tower upon discovering for the first time from Tyrion that Bran was clinging to life (an unexpected revelation which appears to have startled her and Jaime, indicating this would have predated Robert briefing her on the subject of Bran's progress).  What would be the odds of Robert and Cersei independently reaching spontaneous agreement on anything, let alone their language patterns overlapping?

Good points all. Killing Melara also sets a precedent that she is not above killing kids. Although she was a kid herself, so this isn't thatstrong, but still. 

Two posts previous I was going with my characterization of her as well. I was thinking she was somewhat different prior to the PW. But I had not thought about Melara. I was wrong. Her characterization from George would certainly allow her to be involved in this. And as you say, it would (maybe) be out of character for her to NOT be involved in this. 

[LynnS]

At this point, I have the sense that Cersei is responsible for the attempt on Bran's life.  That she lied when she said that Joffrey overheard Robert saying that it would be a mercy and the boy was dead anyway.  I think it's likely that this is something that Cersei would say to Joffrey.  He seems to be in the know about something when he jokes with Sandor about sending a dog to kill a dog in reference to the direwolves. It wouldn't surprise me if Joffrey stole the knife from Robert and Cersei sent Sandor to coerce the catspaw with the knife and 90 silver stags.  Cersei is exposed and will kill anyone who knows her secret.  As she tells Ned, she would do anything to protect her children and as Ned correctly surmised; if Robert knew, he would kill them all.  Implicating Robert in Bran's assassination would be right in Cersei's wheelhouse.

I've had some second thoughts about this dream sequence:

A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

In his dream he was climbing again, pulling himself up an ancient windowless tower, his fingers forcing themselves between blackened stones, his feet scrabbling for purchase. Higher and higher he climbed, through the clouds and into the night sky, and still the tower rose before him. When he paused to look down, his head swam dizzily and he felt his fingers slipping. Bran cried out and clung for dear life. The earth was a thousand miles beneath him and he could not fly. He could not fly. He waited until his heart had stopped pounding, until he could breathe, and he began to climb again. There was no way to go but up. Far above him, outlined against a vast pale moon, he thought he could see the shapes of gargoyles. His arms were sore and aching, but he dared not rest. He forced himself to climb faster. The gargoyles watched him ascend. Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque. Bran could hear them whispering to each other in soft stone voices terrible to hear. He must not listen, he told himself, he must not hear, so long as he did not hear them he was safe. But when the gargoyles pulled themselves loose from the stone and padded down the side of the tower to where Bran clung, he knew he was not safe after all. "I didn't hear," he wept as they came closer and closer, "I didn't, I didn't."

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

That night Bran prayed to his father's gods for dreamless sleep. If the gods heard, they mocked his hopes, for the nightmare they sent was worse than any wolf dream.

 

"Fly or die!" cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst. The pain was an axe splitting his head apart, but when the crow wrenched out its beak all slimy with bits of bone and brain, Bran could see again. What he saw made him gasp in fear. He was clinging to a tower miles high, and his fingers were slipping, nails scrabbling at the stone, his legs dragging him down, stupid useless dead legs. "Help me!" he cried. A golden man appeared in the sky above him and pulled him up. "The things I do for love," he murmured softly as he tossed him out kicking into empty air.

 

While Jaime always appears as the golden man in Bran's dreams and visions;  I think the gargoyles that might once have been lions stalking Bran are Cersei and now Joffrey who is king and also stands to lose if the secret gets out.   The dream itself seems to be a warning.  I don't recall anyone mentioning the assassination attempt or Bran thinking about it.   In Bran's dream, he knows he is not safe after all, that he is still being stalked.   

 

 

[Clegane'sPup]

Lmao, it doesn’t matter how a person spins it. The chitter chatter will continue until the dawn of the doom comes again.  Joff was behind the attempt on Bran’s life. Cersei may have helped her 12 year old sweet darling child. Doesn’t change that Joff was the one Martin singled out as the doer of the deed.

Five books. If Martin would just answer a question with a straight answer he would have my respect. No, he panders to ambiguity. Keep reading he says. In my opinion he doesn’t have any idea where this story is going. He makes it up as he goes along. That is why he is in the position he is in.

What infuriates me more is that the thing that is not supposed to be mentioned in the book forum has agreed to do two abbreviated seasons dragging this thing out for two more years. Hell, does anyone actually believe that Martin will have WoW ready by 2018?  As much as people bitch about D & D, notice that they aren’t interested in working with Martin in the future.

What cracks me up is that Martin is supposed to be this grand story teller. Yet his fans insist on rewriting his story and the man is no closer to completing his story than he was with the FfC/DwD fiasco.

Martin’s work is not high literature. It is a frekking fantasy story containing more ambiguous fantasy stories. Look at this board. It is dead.  How many years has it been since DwD was released?

Martin has dropped, what 10/11 DwD chapters that were moved to WoW. People aren't supposed to talk about those without using spoiler tags.So, I'm thinking to myself, he keeps telling people he has all this material, why not release it.

 

[ravenous reader]

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

The chitter chatter will continue until the dawn of the doom comes again.  Joff was behind the attempt on Bran’s life. Cersei may have helped her 12 year old sweet darling child. Doesn’t change that Joff was the one Martin singled out as the doer of the deed.

Five books. If Martin would just answer a question with a straight answer he would have my respect. No, he panders to ambiguity.

You seem to have contradicted yourself there (or at least GRRM contradicted himself ):  on the one hand declaring the issue done-and-dusted and on the other venting your frustration at the ongoing ambiguity!

Let the 'yapping' of the ravens continue...

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Joffrey stole the knife from Robert and Cersei sent Sandor to coerce the catspaw with the knife and 90 silver stags. 

The bag of 'silver stags' might be a clue implicating the 'false Baratheons' or at least Baratheons in name only -- chief among them Cersei and Joffrey -- in the plot on Bran's life.  Additionally, I believe that Cersei and Jaime are Aerys's bastards, making Cersei and her children 'false Lannisters' as well as imposter Baratheons, hence the symbolism of silver (Targaryen color and metal, rather than Lannister gold or Baratheon iron, steel, copper or lead) + stags.  In addition to being a 'silver stag,' Cersei would also be a 'golden dragon'...

7 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Good points all. Killing Melara also sets a precedent that she is not above killing kids. Although she was a kid herself, so this isn't thatstrong, but still. 

Two posts previous I was going with my characterization of her as well. I was thinking she was somewhat different prior to the PW. But I had not thought about Melara. I was wrong. Her characterization from George would certainly allow her to be involved in this. And as you say, it would (maybe) be out of character for her to NOT be involved in this. 

Good point about the precedent she set regarding her willingness to kill children.  The fact that she was a child herself at the time she committed her first (?) murder in cold blood only accentuates the depth of her pathology, rather than weakening the evidence.  What's particularly striking and disturbing about the Melara incident is the degree of self-denial and self-deception to the point of self-delusion Cersei demonstrates.  It's as if she's almost convinced herself that Melara's drowning was an 'accident' without assuming any responsibility for her part in bringing about the drowning!  This is similar to how she shifts the blame away from herself onto Robert and Joffrey in the case of accounting for Bran's assassination attempt.  This particular psychological defense mechanism is called 'projection' (locating ones 'sins' outside oneself ) and frequently accompanies paranoia.  

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AFFC-Cersei III

To break her fast the queen sent to the kitchens for two boiled eggs, a loaf of bread, and a pot of honey. But when she cracked the first egg and found a bloody half-formed chick inside, her stomach roiled. "Take this away and bring me hot spiced wine," she told Senelle. The chill in the air was settling in her bones, and she had a long nasty day ahead of her.

'The bloody half-formed chick' in the egg foreshadows the fates of her children (the egg yolk around the dead chick would also resemble the prophesied 'golden shroud'!). As above, I also think Cersei and Jaime are Aerys's children, so their inbred progeny would resemble deformed dragon hatchlings symbolically.

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Nor did Jaime help her mood when he turned up all in white and still unshaven, to tell her how he meant to keep her son from being poisoned. "I will have men in the kitchens watching as each dish is prepared," he said. "Ser Addam's gold cloaks will escort the servants as they bring the food to table, to make certain no tampering takes place along the way. Ser Boros will be tasting every course before Tommen puts a bite into his mouth. And if all that should fail, Maester Ballabar will be seated in the back of the hall, with purges and antidotes for twenty common poisons on his person. Tommen will be safe, I promise you."

The possibility of poisoning would worry Cersei considering we know she's employed it as a weapon before herself (e.g. aiding along Robert's death).

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"Safe." The word tasted bitter on her tongue. Jaime did not understand. No one understood. Only Melara had been in the tent to hear the old hag's croaking threats, and Melara was long dead.

Cersei knows that no-one is ever safe, despite taking precautions, because she herself has succeeded in killing others with impunity. That's why it occurs to her that only Melara would understand just how unsafe this world is, being so full of treacherous murderers like herself at every turn waiting to pop up behind you and toss you down a well... (are you getting the interplay of 'projection' and 'paranoia'?)! 

Jaime can't understand her for the simple reason that she's adept at hiding most of her true self from him, whereas Cersei's true face looking down the well like a malevolent moon was probably the last Melara ever saw as she looked back up at her.

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"Tyrion will not kill the same way twice. He is too cunning for that.

I suspect this is another example of Cersei projecting her own qualities onto Tyrion, followed by then recoiling in paranoia at what she sees!  She is the cunning one.  She has not killed the same way twice, implying Cersei has killed or organised a killing at least twice in her life if not more.  Assuming she was responsible for both Robert's and Bran's assassination plots, this would make sense considering the murder weapon in each case was different, respectively poison and dagger. In line with this hypothesis, she goes on to say:

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He could be under the floor even now, listening to every word we say and making plans to open Tommen's throat."

She imagines Tyrion 'making plans to open Tommen's throat' just as she made plans to open Bran's!  In other words, she has identified with her brother whom she imagines to be the feared 'valonqar' -- which ironically is probably not that far off, considering the closest one can come to identifying with someone is being a twin, and I anticipate Jaime as her ultimate nemesis.  The 'opening of the throat' might also be an allusion to how the direwolf (symbolic of her enemies the Starks) literally opened the throat of the catspaw (symbolic of the Lannisters being 'cats') thwarting his and therefore her will.  

Like the direwolf who emerged victorious to lord it over her in that scrimmage, Cersei fears Bran being at large in the world potentially 'listening to every word we say.'  This is of course how it all began with Bran eavesdropping on their tryst as well as being a fitting suspicion regarding a budding greenseer -- perhaps the most powerful one ever (for once her paranoia is accurate)!  Bran also happens to be 'under a floor' of sorts just as she imagines her enemies to be lurking underground (e.g. in the crypts for eye-opening and then onto Bloodraven's cavern for further training).

Additionally, she thinks people are spying on her as a consequence of her warped reflection of how she in actual fact is one of the main culprits responsible for spying on others.  You get the idea...

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"Suppose he was," said Jaime. "Whatever plans he makes, he will still be small and stunted. Tommen will be surrounded by the finest knights in Westeros. The Kingsguard will protect him."

Cersei glanced at where the sleeve of her brother's white silk tunic had been pinned up over his stump. "I remember how well they guarded Joffrey, these splendid knights of yours. I want you to remain with Tommen all night, is that understood?"

Cersei remains unimpressed by Jaime's reassurances, and for good reason.  After all, she would know that even a very well-guarded little boy (like Bran at Winterfell guarded day and night) may come to harm.  Please note how immediately following Jaime's reassurances that 'Kingsguard' will be protecting the King she glances at Jaime's stump.  The significance of this glance is threefold.  First, Jaime's stump reminds her of how unreliable oaths and protections may be, considering it was Jaime himself who turned on and slew his own king despite closely shadowing Aerys as Kingsguard to him at the time!  Second, it reminds her of how estranged her twin is becoming from her, following the severance of the same hand which used to be connected to her at birth.  Indeed, her deepest fears may lead her to suspect that he has gone further, treacherously granting to another what used to be her sword hand for her to wield as she pleased, leaving her feeling even more vulnerable and given to paranoid ideation (this is indeed the case, having given his sword to Brienne the Beauty from Tarth 'another more beautiful...').  Third, the stump likely reminds her of Bran, albeit at the deepest unconscious level, being the hand with which Jaime at her behest threw Bran out the window shortly after offering his assistance to bring to Bran to safety, stretching that hand out to him saying the ominous words 'take my hand' -- an event from which all others have flowed culminating in the loss of Jaime's hand and reducing him to a stump of his former self -- at least physically -- like Bran-- and representing an existential catastrophe for her as well.

On a meta-level, 'stumps' of any kind should always immediately remind us of Bran, evoking his state as a cripple and inhabitant of the weirwood, in addition to forever symbolising the inextricable bond and date with destiny Bran now shares with Jaime.  When he threw Bran from the window, he paradoxically bound himself, perhaps even in allegiance, to the greenseer-to-be with the words 'take my hand'...(fittingly, I also believe Bran and Bloodraven send the 'weirwood stump' dream to him which has served to turn around the arc of his life 180 degrees).

Potentially reinforcing the Bran subtext, Cersei adds that she wants Jaime by Tommen's side all night long, including in his bedchamber, recognising that this may be the most opportune time and place for an undercover attack on a young child (compare how Bran's assassination attempt took place at night in his bedchamber).

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"I will have a guardsman outside his door."

She seized his arm. "Not a guardsman. You. And inside his bedchamber."

Note the recurring Bran subtext here:  she seizes Jaime's arm (just as Bran has literally and figuratively).

Continuing the analogy to Bran, it's as if Cersei is configuring Jaime as the equivalent of Tommen's direwolf protector.

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"In case Tyrion crawls out of the hearth? He won't."

"So you say. Will you tell me that you found all the hidden tunnels in these walls?" They both knew better. "I will not have Tommen alone with Margaery, not for so much as half a heartbeat."

Tunnels in walls, crawling out of the hearth...more greenseer symbolism.

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"They will not be alone. Her cousins will be with them."

 

"As will you. I command it, in the king's name." Cersei had not wanted Tommen and his wife to share a bed at all, but the Tyrells had insisted. "Husband and wife should sleep together," the Queen of Thorns had said, "even if they do no more than sleep. His Grace's bed is big enough for two, surely." Lady Alerie had echoed her good-mother. "Let the children warm each other in the night. It will bring them closer. Margaery oft shares her blankets with her cousins. They sing and play games and whisper secrets to each other when the candles are snuffed out."

 

"How delightful," Cersei had said. "Let them continue, by all means. In the Maidenvault."

 

"I am sure Her Grace knows best," Lady Olenna had said to Lady Alerie. "She is the boy's own mother, after all, of that we are all sure. And surely we can agree about the wedding night? A man should not sleep apart from his wife on the night of their wedding. It is ill luck for their marriage if they do."

 

Someday I will teach you the meaning of "ill luck," the queen had vowed. "Margaery may share Tommen's bedchamber for that one night," she had been forced to say. "No longer."

 

"Your Grace is so gracious," the Queen of Thorns had replied, and everyone had exchanged smiles.

 

Cersei's fingers were digging into Jaime's arm hard enough to leave bruises. "I need eyes inside that room," she said.

From what I've observed and detailed so far, you can figure out the symbolism here!

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"To see what?" he said. "There can be no danger of a consummation. Tommen is much too young."

"And Ossifer Plumm was much too dead, but that did not stop him fathering a child, did it?"

Her brother looked lost. "Who was Ossifer Plumm? Was he Lord Philip's father, or . . . who?"

He is near as ignorant as Robert. All his wits were in his sword hand.

Poor clueless Jaime -- he just fails to see the irony, even though it applies to his own situation with Cersei.  The implication here is that an unknown party fathered Ossifer's children in Ossifer's stead, just as Cersei and Jaime cuckolded Robert.  Additionally, there is a further irony, should it be true that the twins are Aerys's not Tywin's progeny, seeing as the biological father of Ossifer's children was rumored to be a Targaryen.

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"Forget Plumm, just remember what I told you. Swear to me that you will stay by Tommen's side until the sun comes up."

"As you command," he said, as if her fears were groundless. "Do you still mean to go ahead and burn the Tower of the Hand?"

A remind of how Cersei is fond of burning down Towers.  That's another reason I suspect her of planning Bran's assassination attempt with the diversionary ploy of setting fire to the library.

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"After the feast." It was the only part of the day's festivities that Cersei thought she might enjoy. "Our lord father was murdered in that tower. I cannot bear to look at it. If the gods are good, the fire may smoke a few rats from the rubble."

Jaime rolled his eyes. "Tyrion, you mean."

"Him, and Lord Varys, and this gaoler."

"If any of them were hiding in the tower, we would have found them. I've had a small army going at it with picks and hammers. We've knocked through walls and ripped up floors and uncovered half a hundred secret passages."

"And for all you know there may be half a hundred more." Some of the secret crawl ways had turned out to be so small that Jaime had needed pages and stableboys to explore them. A passage to the black cells had been found, and a stone well that seemed to have no bottom. They had found a chamber full of skulls and yellowed bones, and four sacks of tarnished silver coins from the reign of the first King Viserys. They had found a thousand rats as well . . . but neither Tyrion nor Varys had been amongst them, and Jaime had finally insisted on putting an end to the search. One boy had gotten stuck in a narrow passage and had to be pulled out by his feet, shrieking. Another fell down a shaft and broke his legs. And two guardsmen vanished exploring a side tunnel. Some of the other guards swore they could hear them calling faintly through the stone, but when Jaime's men tore down the wall they found only earth and rubble on the far side. "The Imp is small and cunning. He may still be in the walls. If he is, the fire will smoke him out."

"Even if Tyrion were still hiding in the castle, he won't be in the Tower of the Hand. We've reduced it to a shell."

"Would that we could do the same to the rest of this foul castle," said Cersei. "After the war I mean to build a new palace beyond the river." She had dreamed of it the night before last, a magnificent white castle surrounded by woods and gardens, long leagues from the stinks and noise of King's Landing. "This city is a cesspit. For half a groat I would move the court to Lannisport and rule the realm from Casterly Rock."

"That would be an even greater folly than burning the Tower of the Hand. So long as Tommen sits the Iron Throne, the realm sees him as the true king. Hide him under the Rock and he becomes just another claimant to the throne, no different than Stannis."

"I am aware of that," the queen said sharply. "I said that I wanted to move the court to Lannisport, not that I would. Were you always this slow, or did losing a hand make you stupid?"

Jaime ignored that. "If these flames spread beyond the tower, you may end up burning down the castle whether you mean to or not. Wildfire is treacherous."

"Lord Hallyne has assured me that his pyromancers can control the fire." The Guild of Alchemists had been brewing fresh wildfire for a fortnight. "Let all of King's Landing see the flames. It will be a lesson to our enemies."

"Now you sound like Aerys."

Her nostrils flared. "Guard your tongue, ser."

"I love you too, sweet sister."

How could I ever have loved that wretched creature? she wondered after he had gone. He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

54 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

You seem to have contradicted yourself there (or at least GRRM contradicted himself ):  on the one hand declaring the issue done-and-dusted and on the other venting your frustration at the ongoing ambiguity!

Let the 'yapping' of the ravens continue...

Yapping continues. Martin put the issue to rest. So what is your point.

edit:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1082

You should know that even after all this time, we're still debating things like who was behind the assassination attempt on Bran. Not to mention trying to figure out the four weddings, four trials, and two funeral.

The problem with all this speculating is that some of you are bound to guess the answers before I reveal 'em... and others may even come up with better answers than I do. Well, those are the risks one takes with such a project.

I will tell you that ASOS will resolve the question of Bran and the dagger, and also that of Jon Arryn's killer. Some other questions will not be resolved... and hopefully I will give you a few new puzzles to worry at.

I should caution that the four trials aren't necessarily the sort of thing a 20th century American would call a trial. Don't expect Perry of House Mason to be showing up to argue fine points of law.

I have provided the link which contains the question and Martin’s answer.  You wanna splain to me dat Perry Mason spiel? And would you kindly say yes or no to whether you think that Joff was behind the attack on Bran's life.

[the trees have eyes]

On 12/11/2016 at 9:34 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

Lmao, it doesn’t matter how a person spins it. The chitter chatter will continue until the dawn of the doom comes again.  Joff was behind the attempt on Bran’s life. Cersei may have helped her 12 year old sweet darling child. Doesn’t change that Joff was the one Martin singled out as the doer of the deed.

I don't think Cersei did help Joffrey.  She has absolutely no reason to lie to Jaime about her or Joffrey's involvement in the murder yet when Jaime tells her that Cat accused him of sending the assassin she appears to know nothing and sarcastically suggests Myrcella was behind it.

I've seen other posters say Cersei is a liar and reinvents history to suit herself but there is no way she could conveniently forget these events and there is no reason for her to lie to Jaime at all at this point or to allow Jaime to think Joffrey did it on his own if she did indeed orchestrate it or assist him.  Her involvement simply does not stack up to me, particularly given how incompetent and stupid the assassin turned out to be. 

Would she really take this risk and be so careless and why would she lie to Jaime about it?  This is a double no for me.

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

Would she really take this risk

The Great George has subsequently decreed it was Joffrey, so let us accede to his superior wisdom despite all the inconsistencies!

Be that as it may, let me ask you this:

Would she really take the risk of allowing Bran to live and potentially spill the beans on her?

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

why would she lie to Jaime?

She lies to Jaime about a great many things.  Besides, she's not really in the habit of confessing her murders to him or anyone else.  For example, only she and Maggy know what happened to Melara:

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A Feast for Crows - Cersei III

"Safe." The word tasted bitter on her tongue. Jaime did not understand. No one understood. Only Melara had been in the tent to hear the old hag's croaking threats, and Melara was long dead.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV

Last night Cersei had dreamed of the old woman, with her pebbly jowls and croaking voice. Maggy the Frog, they had called her in Lannisport. If Father had known what she said to me, he would have had her tongue out. Cersei had never told anyone, though, not even Jaime. Melara said that if we never spoke about her prophecies, we would forget them. She said that a forgotten prophecy couldn't come true.

Consider the following passage in which Cersei is trying to persuade Jaime to kill Tyrion.  When he refuses, she taunts him, citing all the other murders he was too 'cowardly' to commit (the implication is he doesn't have the stomach for it, unlike her).  Note that when Jaime asserts he trusts his sibling's word for it that he did not kill Joffrey, Cersei counters by insinuating that a sibling might very well lie about having murdered someone.  Why, then, are you so sure she would automatically confess to having organised the attempt on Bran -- especially a botched attempt which would not sit right with her overweening opinion of herself and her powers?  Further, she goes on to comfirm that she's successfully lied to him numerous times.  By the way, this angry exchange in which she underlines that Jaime ought not to trust anything she says to him occurs in the same chapter right after she's supposedly confirmed that she had nothing to do with the attempt on Bran's life.  

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ASOS-Jaime IX

You lacked the courage to avenge Joffrey, why would I think that you'd protect Tommen? Tell me, if the Imp had killed all three of your children, would that have made you wroth?"

"Tyrion is not going to harm Tommen or Myrcella. I am still not certain he killed Joffrey."

Her mouth twisted in anger. "How can you say that? After all his threats - "

"Threats mean nothing. He swears he did not do it."

"Oh, he swears, is that it? And dwarfs don't lie, is that what you think?"

"Not to me. No more than you would."

"You great golden fool. He's lied to you a thousand times, and so have I." She bound up her hair again, and scooped up the hairnet from the bedpost where she'd hung it. "Think what you will. The little monster is in a black cell, and soon Ser Ilyn will have his head off. Perhaps you'd like it for a keepsake." She glanced at the pillow. "He can watch over you as you sleep alone in that cold white bed. Until his eyes rot out, that is."

"You had best go, Cersei. You're making me angry."

"Oh, an angry cripple. How terrifying."

Very interesting that last bit:  Throughout the series Jaime and Bran are symbolically aligned through their mutual crippling, in addition to having a common 'karmic' root for that crippling, and I'd posit a common date with destiny as a result.  Therefore, perhaps Cersei's mention of the 'angry cripple' whose ire might be directed at her could also refer to another, namely Bran.  Indeed, perhaps the thought of that particular 'angry cripple' awaking and testifying against her was truly 'terrifying'!  Perhaps that terror motivated her to act.  Remember that Melara too was murdered in order to silence her potential testimony.

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

when Jaime tells her that Cat accused him of sending the assassin she appears to know nothing and sarcastically suggests Myrcella was behind it.

Sarcasm is a defense mechanism which might hint at guilt.  If you read that particular passage closely, you'll note how on being confronted she turns away from Jaime to close a window, effectively breaking eye contact with him, then launches into the 'recollection' of the conversation she supposedly had with Robert while her children were in earshot.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jaime IX

"There was a dagger. The scars on Lady Catelyn's hands were real enough, she showed them to me. Did you . . . ?"

"Oh, don't be absurd." Cersei closed the window. 

Her first instinct is denial, and an evasive one at that. The kneejerk response 'don't be absurd' is not really a negation.  Imagine in another context if someone confronts their lover/spouse with 'are you having an affair?' and the first response is not 'no' but 'don't be absurd' while turning her/his back to the interrogator and fiddling with a window, wouldn't one be suspicious?!  'Absurd' is a strange adjective to use.  It's not really an absurd supposition of Jaime's, considering that Cersei above all others had the strongest motive to want Bran eliminated and had previously requested of Jaime that he kill Bran:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"And when he did not, you knew your danger was worse than ever, so you gave your catspaw a bag of silver to make certain Bran would never wake."

"Did I now?" Jaime lifted his cup and took a long swallow. "I won't deny we talked of it, but you were with the boy day and night, your maester and Lord Eddard attended him frequently, and there were guards, even those damned direwolves . . . it would have required cutting my way through half of Winterfell. And why bother, when the boy seemed like to die of his own accord?"

Something just doesn't jibe with this whole account.  Someone has been remiss -- and I suspect it's GRRM!  He just didn't think it through carefully enough.  

[LynnS]

18 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Something just doesn't jibe with this whole account.  Someone has been remiss -- and I suspect it's GRRM!  He just didn't think it through carefully enough.

Or Martin just got tired of all the questions and gave the short answer.    Joffrey thinks it's all him but it's not.  All that's really revealed in Tyrion's question about a valyrian steel knife with a dragonbone handle to match his new sword; is that Joffrey knew about it.  Tryion came to the conclusion that it was all Joffrey when he shouldn't have dismissed Cersei. Cersei is the manipulator of the events and she is culpable.  If I'm not mistaken, Tyrion doesn't yet know about Cersei's bastards in aSoS.  He may well have come to another conclusion if he had.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Cersei wasn't involved. Come on. From all the people in the world, Joffrey would have been the last one she'd ask. Literally or close enough. Seriously, the kid was twelve (thirteen? not more), with absolutely no street smarts, bound to botch the whole thing. Which would have been bad for all the regular reasons plus, the worst of all, endangering her precious golden firstborn prince. Cersei would've sooner put herself in the harm's way. Or Jaime, even better. Maybe Clegane, or some other trusted Lannister man. Never her priceless Joffrey.

[LynnS]

Just now, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Cersei wasn't involved. Come on. From all the people in the world, Joffrey would have been the last one she'd ask. Literally or close enough. Seriously, the kid was twelve (thirteen? not more), with absolutely no street smarts, bound to botch the whole thing. Which would have been bad for all the regular reasons plus, the worst of all, endangering her precious golden firstborn prince. Cersei would've sooner put herself in the harm's way. Or Jaime, even better. Maybe Clegane, or some other trusted Lannister man. Never her priceless Joffrey.

That's why they sent a "dog to kill and dog" to quote Joffrey.  Sandor Clegane would make an intimidating negotiator. Sandor is Joffrey's pet dog. But Cersei ultimately holds the leash.

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I

Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head. "I could silence the creature, if it please you," he said through his open visor. His boy placed a longsword in his hand. He tested the weight of it, slicing at the cold morning air. Behind him, the yard rang to the clangor of steel on steel.

The notion seemed to delight the prince. "Send a dog to kill a dog!" he exclaimed. "Winterfell is so infested with wolves, the Starks would never miss one."

Tyrion hopped off the last step onto the yard. "I beg to differ, nephew," he said. "The Starks can count past six. Unlike some princes I might name."

 

[ravenous reader]

16 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Or Martin just got tired of all the questions and gave the short answer.    Joffrey thinks it's all him but it's not.  All that's really revealed in Tyrion's question about a valyrian steel knife with a dragonbone handle to match his new sword; is that Joffrey knew about it.  Tryion came to the conclusion that it was all Joffrey when he shouldn't have dismissed Cersei. Cersei is the manipulator of the events and she is culpable.  I'm not mistaken, Tyrion doesn't yet know about Cersei's bastards in aSoS.  He may well have come to another conclusion if he had.

I guess I just get frustrated on being told that the matter is closed, so the 'ravens ought to stop their redundant yapping,' because 'thus spake Martyne'...If that's the case, then the only conclusion is 'thus erreth Martyne'!

The argument always boils down to the 'ellipsis' GRRM inserted indicating Joffrey fumbling for words around the Valyrian steel dagger as an indication of his guilt.  Similarly, Cersei's overly-defensive protestation, as I've discussed, accompanied by fiddling with the window is just such a 'tell'!  Most of all, it's just not in character for Cersei to leave it all up to chance.  If that were her character, she wouldn't be so cut up about a prophecy and hellbent to the point of 'insanity' on averting it.  Cersei's about a burning drive to close all the loopholes.  I just can't imagine her leaving Winterfell hoping for the best.  Comas are notoriously fickle creatures...

[LynnS]

11 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I guess I just get frustrated on being told that the matter is closed, so the 'ravens ought to stop their redundant yapping,' because 'thus spake Martyne'...If that's the case, then the only conclusion is 'thus erreth Martyne'!

The argument always boils down to the 'ellipsis' GRRM inserted indicating Joffrey fumbling for words around the Valyrian steel dagger as an indication of his guilt.  Similarly, Cersei's overly-defensive protestation, as I've discussed, accompanied by fiddling with the window is just such a 'tell'!  Most of all, it's just not in character for Cersei to leave it all up to chance.  If that were here character, she wouldn't be so cut up about a prophecy.  Cersei's about a burning drive to close all the loopholes.  I just can't imagine her leaving Winterfell hoping for the best.  Comas are notoriously fickle creatures...

I think your character analysis is excellent and I'm glad to read it. My comment wasn't about the detail of the explanation.  I agree with you completely.  If Tyrion had all the facts; he probably would have realized Joffrey couldn't do this alone and that his sister is manipulating Joffrey.  Clegane is following orders.   All Martin said was that the answer was revealed in aSoS.  All the specific passage implies is that Joffrey knew something about it.  It's Tyrion who comes to the conclusion it was Joffrey without having all the facts.  Usually, I would go with Tyrion as a slayer of lies; but he's only as good as the evidence.  So I'm quite happy with the alternate explanation that you provide.  Cersei would not leave it up to chance. 

The matter is closed for some people.  

[ravenous reader]

16 minutes ago, LynnS said:

That's why they sent a "dog to kill a dog" to quote Joffrey.  Sandor Clegane would make an intimidating negotiator. Sandor is Joffrey's pet dog. But Cersei ultimately holds the leash.

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I

Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head. "I could silence the creature, if it please you," he said through his open visor. His boy placed a longsword in his hand. He tested the weight of it, slicing at the cold morning air. Behind him, the yard rang to the clangor of steel on steel.

The notion seemed to delight the prince. "Send a dog to kill a dog!" he exclaimed. "Winterfell is so infested with wolves, the Starks would never miss one."

Tyrion hopped off the last step onto the yard. "I beg to differ, nephew," he said. "The Starks can count past six. Unlike some princes I might name."

 

That quote you referenced is interesting, considering what precipitated the idea of 'sending a dog to kill a dog' was that Summer's howling was getting on their nerves and they wished to silence him.  Likewise, perhaps the motive for the assassination attempt on Bran was to silence him?  Cersei not Joffrey would have a motive specifically to silence Bran.  Also note the other motive being that Bran was taking too long to die, which might have also been uppermost in Cersei's mind.  As we've discussed, she's not exactly adept at waiting patiently to allow nature to takes its course!

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I

The rising sun had not yet cleared the walls of Winterfell, but the men were already hard at it in the yard below. Sandor Clegane's rasping voice drifted up to him. "The boy is a long time dying. I wish he would be quicker about it."

Tyrion glanced down and saw the Hound standing with young Joffrey as squires swarmed around them. "At least he dies quietly," the prince replied. "It's the wolf that makes the noise. I could scarce sleep last night."

Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head. "I could silence the creature, if it please you,"

 

[LynnS]

Yes, Joffrey thinks he's brilliant!  This is very suggestive of what I think occurs later.  Sending Clegane to the stables with the silver stags and knife with an ultimatum for the 'dog' in the stables.

Tyrion immediately makes a connection to the direwolves and Joffrey is also alluding to the Starks as wolves or dogs.

[Ser Hyle]

Martin stated in an interview a few months before ASoS was published that the issues of Jon Arryn's murder and Bran and the dagger would be resolved in the book, and it was.

Add to that pretty strong conclusion from Tyrion and Jaime's POVs that it was Joffrey, but there's still 5 pages of people (Trump voters, I assume) trying to argue otherwise. 

[LynnS]

10 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

Martin stated in an interview a few months before ASoS was published that the issues of Jon Arryn's murder and Bran and the dagger would be resolved in the book, and it was.

Add to that pretty strong conclusion from Tyrion and Jaime's POVs that it was Joffrey, but there's still 5 pages of people (Trump voters, I assume) trying to argue otherwise. 

I don't vote in your country and I despise Trump; just like all my fellow Canadians.  Yes it was resolved in the book.  How it was resolved or what people make of it is a matter of opinion.  Why is it necessary to make such a degrading comment?  Why not just move on if the conversation has no value to you.     

[The Ned's Little Girl]

16 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

Martin stated in an interview a few months before ASoS was published that the issues of Jon Arryn's murder and Bran and the dagger would be resolved in the book, and it was.

Add to that pretty strong conclusion from Tyrion and Jaime's POVs that it was Joffrey, but there's still 5 pages of people (Trump voters, I assume) trying to argue otherwise. 

There's no reason at all to assume that. 

[Ser Hyle]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

I don't vote in your country and I despise Trump; just like all my fellow Canadians.  Yes it was resolved in the book.  How it was resolved or what people make of it is a matter of opinion.  Why is it necessary to make such a degrading comment?  Why not just move on if the conversation has no value to you.     

Canada is my country too and there are many Trump supporters in this country. Anyway, that's not the point; I shouldn't have invoked an inflammatory topic. My mistake.

The conversation boggles my mind is all. More evidence that we need something new to talk about, I suppose.

[LynnS]

Just now, Ser Hyle said:

The conversation boggles my mind is all. More evidence that we need something new to talk about, I suppose.

No problem.  I sympathize with the need for new material.... it really is torture.