Has Littlefinger interacted with Mandon Moore?

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

There is not even single proof for that. 

There is also no proof to the contrary. Knowing when or how somebody arrived in KL doesn't mean we know when he joined the KG. Moore could have been one of Jon's household knights for years before he was made a Kingsguard.

Littlefinger is a good example for that, by the way. He came to the capital but wasn't named Master of Coin at once. He first worked some time in the treasury on a less important job.

Not to mention that we don't know when he came to KL with Jon Arryn. When Jon first became Hand? Or at some later point in time?

We don't know.

1 minute ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Please, Vale is size of country. Does that mean that Littlefinger know everyone in the Vale?

No, but he happens to know a lot of poor fellows from the Vale, like the Kettleblacks.

[Paxter Redwyne]

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

No, but he happens to know a lot of poor fellows from the Vale, like the Kettleblacks.

Oswell Kettleblack was littlefinger's servant. From how long is not exactly know, but surely he already worked for him few years. Perhaps he even worked for Petyr's father.

[UnFit Finlay]

10 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

You think that Joffrey really thought that Tyrion was protecting him? Joffrey doesn't have knowledge what we readers have. He was oblivious that what Tyrion was doing was for his own good. And by that logic, Littlefinger ordering murder of Tyrion is even dumber, considering that he schemed to make Margaery queen to gain Harrenhal. If by killing Tyrion he turned battle in Stannis' favour, he would gain absolutely nothing. 

I believe Joffrey realised that Tyrion was defending the City that he was in. Joffrey might be rash and stupid but if he was as suicidal as you're making out then why didn't he insist on leading the charge against Stannis, the way he'd been bragging about?

Littlefinger had plenty to gain from Stannis taking King's Landing. With the deaths of Tyrion, Cersei and Joffrey, and the Small Council either going over to Stannis or being executed, Littlefinger would find himself in an excellent position under King Tommen or Queen Myrcella's rule. After all, Tywin would be busy fighting the war and Littlefinger had more than proven his loyalty.

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You think that 16 years old Petyr was already a genius mastermind? Jon Arryn gave no shit about Lysa being unhappy. He needed wife only to give him heir. And he didn't needed to like Moore to notice that he is very skilled fighter. 

At 17, Gregor Clegane murdered Aegon Targaryen and raped Elia Martel. At 15 Robb Stark lead a rebellion against the Iron Throne and won every battle. Sam and Jon have both killed Others while in their teens.

So, yes, I believe a 16 year old Littlefinger was more than capable of writing a letter. Especially one that risked nothing. I'm not suggesting that it was a genius move at all. Just a classic Littlefinger move. Putting things in place and then seeing how they play out is his entire M.O.

And Jon Arryn not caring about Lysa being unhappy goes against everything we know about him as a character. Sure, it was a marriage of necessity but it doesn't make him Roose Bolton. He gave Littlefinger a job in Gulltown to make her happy so we know she had some influence on him. Is it really out of the question that he appointed Moore to the Kingsguard at her suggestion? As you pointed out, it's not like Moore wasn't a good fighter, but still an odd choice to be given such an honour.

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Yes it is unrealistic that Littlefinger asked Lysa to convince her husband to give a white cloak to Mandon. Petyr was at the Fingers at the time, still sulking after losing Catelyn. He had no influence over Jon Arryn at the time. I doubt that he even knew Mandon Moore as he was raised in Riverrun. Littlefinger isn't behind everything what happened in the series. Until he became master of coin he had pretty much no influence.

I never said Littlefinger had influence over Jon Arryn. I said he had influence over Lysa, which he did. In fact that was all he had when he left Riverrun. Considering we know how much he hated the Fingers, it seems unrealistic to think that he never tried to use that influence at all before getting the job at Gulltown.

As I said before, what we know about Littlefinger's associates means that almost anything is possible. Would we really believe that Cersei's closest confidants were actually Littlefingers if he hadn't said so? Or Lyn Corbray? Ser Dontos? There's no evidence to link him to any of them, which is the entire point.

[Paxter Redwyne]

1 hour ago, UnFit Finlay said:

I believe Joffrey realised that Tyrion was defending the City that he was in. Joffrey might be rash and stupid but if he was as suicidal as you're making out then why didn't he insist on leading the charge against Stannis, the way he'd been bragging about?

Littlefinger had plenty to gain from Stannis taking King's Landing. With the deaths of Tyrion, Cersei and Joffrey, and the Small Council either going over to Stannis or being executed, Littlefinger would find himself in an excellent position under King Tommen or Queen Myrcella's rule. After all, Tywin would be busy fighting the war and Littlefinger had more than proven his loyalty.

Joffrey stupidity may be bigger than you think. He hired assasin to kill Bran, executed Eddard Stark and many many more stupid acts.

Eee, nope. With Stannis on the Iron Throne, won would be over. Who controls capital is ruler of Seven Kingdoms.

1 hour ago, UnFit Finlay said:

At 17, Gregor Clegane murdered Aegon Targaryen and raped Elia Martel. At 15 Robb Stark lead a rebellion against the Iron Throne and won every battle. Sam and Jon have both killed Others while in their teens.

So, yes, I believe a 16 year old Littlefinger was more than capable of writing a letter. Especially one that risked nothing. I'm not suggesting that it was a genius move at all. Just a classic Littlefinger move. Putting things in place and then seeing how they play out is his entire M.O.

And Jon Arryn not caring about Lysa being unhappy goes against everything we know about him as a character. Sure, it was a marriage of necessity but it doesn't make him Roose Bolton. He gave Littlefinger a job in Gulltown to make her happy so we know she had some influence on him. Is it really out of the question that he appointed Moore to the Kingsguard at her suggestion? As you pointed out, it's not like Moore wasn't a good fighter, but still an odd choice to be given such an honour.

And does raping requires any qualification? 

Robb Stark was lord of winterfell and had entire north under his command. 

First of all, Jon never killed Other, and second Sam only stabbed Other with dragonglass. He did not know that it would kill him. It didn't required much skill.

These examples have nothing to do with Littlefinger.

 

Their marriage was loveless. Jon cared little about her. For example he decided to give his son as ward to Stannis without even consulting her. 

Besides i already noted that Littlefinger used his influence over Lysa in 289 AC. If he could manipulate Jon Arryn so easily as teenager, he would become master of coin much earlier. There is nothing odd in choosing Mandon Moore as white cloak. He was skilled fighter and was devoted to his vows. It is all what was needed from him.

1 hour ago, UnFit Finlay said:

I never said Littlefinger had influence over Jon Arryn. I said he had influence over Lysa, which he did. In fact that was all he had when he left Riverrun. Considering we know how much he hated the Fingers, it seems unrealistic to think that he never tried to use that influence at all before getting the job at Gulltown.

As I said before, what we know about Littlefinger's associates means that almost anything is possible. Would we really believe that Cersei's closest confidants were actually Littlefingers if he hadn't said so? Or Lyn Corbray? Ser Dontos? There's no evidence to link him to any of them, which is the entire point.

By saying that Petyr had influence over Jon i meant influence over Jon through Lysa.

By that logic, Ramsay Snow surely must be Littlefinger's pawn as he has no connections with him. Petyr is genius mastermind but even he had to work long to get where he is now. Before he got job in Gulltown he had almost no money and influence. I doubt that he had already everything planned as teenager. 

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Oswell Kettleblack was littlefinger's servant. From how long is not exactly know, but surely he already worked for him few years. Perhaps he even worked for Petyr's father.

Moore's father could easily enough have been a man in service to Littlefinger's father. We just don't know that yet.

Your idea that Joff was behind the whole thing doesn't make much sense. Perhaps you could make a case that Moore acted on his own but even that doesn't sound true to me.

35 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Joffrey stupidity may be bigger than you think. He hired assasin to kill Bran, executed Eddard Stark and many many more stupid acts.

The last idea was fed to him by Littlefinger. Hiring the assassin to kill Bran might have been stupid but it was actually one of his few kinder/nobler acts. After all, he wanted to end the suffering of Bran as Robert himself said somebody should while being drunk.

35 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Their marriage was loveless. Jon cared little about her. For example he decided to give his son as ward to Stannis without even consulting her. 

That isn't true, either. Their marriage might have been pretty loveless but Jon Arryn actually only decided to separate Robert from Lysa when he felt he had no other choice. He should have done that years ago yet he never did, presumably because he didn't want to hurt his wife. 

35 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Besides i already noted that Littlefinger used his influence over Lysa in 289 AC. If he could manipulate Jon Arryn so easily as teenager, he would become master of coin much earlier. There is nothing odd in choosing Mandon Moore as white cloak. He was skilled fighter and was devoted to his vows. It is all what was needed from him.

We don't know who or how Mandon Moore was chosen for the Kingsguard. His skill certainly played a part but one wonders who suggested a man like him? And who then decided to prefer him to any other candidate put forth? Since nobody liked very much it is odd that he was chosen at all, despite the fact that he had the necessary skills.

[UnFit Finlay]

Just now, Paxter Redwyne said:

Joffrey stupidity may be bigger than you think. He hired assasin to kill Bran, executed Eddard Stark and many many more stupid acts.

Eee, nope. With Stannis on the Iron Throne, won would be over. Who controls capital is ruler of Seven Kingdoms.
 

There is a huge difference between those acts and killing the man who is commanding your defenses. Joffrey was stupid, but he was also a coward.

If the second point was true in any way then there would be no series at all. Why was there even a war in the first place if it whoever holds the Iron Throne can somehow never be defeated? Do you seriously think Stannis' many enemies would just forget about his crimes against them and bend the knee? What about the Faith?

Stannis' hold on King's Landing would've been extremely tenuous. He had no allies, the smallfolk would've hated him for abandoning the Seven and murdering his "nephew" and he'd be up against the combined might of the Tyrell and Lannister alliance. I like Stannis but, if I'm Littlefinger, I'd be liking Tommen or Myrcella's odds.

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Besides i already noted that Littlefinger used his influence over Lysa in 289 AC. If he could manipulate Jon Arryn so easily as teenager, he would become master of coin much earlier.

Who said he could manipulate him easily? I've never said that at all.

There is a huge difference between a wife asking her husband to appoint a skilled fighter to the Kingsguard, where he'd be one of seven, and whose membership had seen better days, and asking to turn the treasury over to a complete unknown.

And, yes, there IS a mystery about why Moore was chosen. If he'd earned it by his proving his skill in battle, a tourney etc, it would've been mentioned when Bronn was digging into his background. Literally all we know about it is "Jon Arryn gave him a white cloak even though he didn't like him".

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And does raping requires any qualification? 

Robb Stark was lord of winterfell and had entire north under his command. 

First of all, Jon never killed Other, and second Sam only stabbed Other with dragonglass. He did not know that it would kill him. It didn't required much skill.

These examples have nothing to do with Littlefinger.

 

Does writing a letter saying "Can you get my friend a job?" require much skill?

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By saying that Petyr had influence over Jon i meant influence over Jon through Lysa.

By that logic, Ramsay Snow surely must be Littlefinger's pawn as he has no connections with him. Petyr is genius mastermind but even he had to work long to get where he is now. Before he got job in Gulltown he had almost no money and influence. I doubt that he had already everything planned as teenager. 

 

Who is saying he had everything planned? I flat out said that his whole deal is to put things in place and see how they work out. He obviously couldn't have forseen that he could use Mandon to try and off Tyrion, just like he couldn't have known that Catelyn would kidnap Tyrion on the Kings Road or that Cersei would confide in the Kettleblacks.

Also I believe we've already established that Littlefinger's only influence when he was young was his influence over Lysa, who was in love with him. We also know from his job in Gulltown that Lysa had at least some influence on Jon. We can argue about whether he got Mandon a job but the fact that he used Lysa's love for him to influence her husband is surely undeniable? Lysa flat out says it in the series.

[Paxter Redwyne]

10 hours ago, UnFit Finlay said:

If the second point was true in any way then there would be no series at all. Why was there even a war in the first place if it whoever holds the Iron Throne can somehow never be defeated? Do you seriously think Stannis' many enemies would just forget about his crimes against them and bend the knee? What about the Faith?

Stannis' hold on King's Landing would've been extremely tenuous. He had no allies, the smallfolk would've hated him for abandoning the Seven and murdering his "nephew" and he'd be up against the combined might of the Tyrell and Lannister alliance. I like Stannis but, if I'm Littlefinger, I'd be liking Tommen or Myrcella's odds

Faith was at this point pretty much powerless at that point.

Stannis was supported by stormlanders and some crownlanders and reachmans. Smallfolk hated Joffrey and unless Stannis would act same way as him, they should feel relieved that Joffrey was deposed. With Joffrey dead Tyrells would have gain little for fighting against Stannis. He did nothing wrong to them and with Joff dead, it don't mean that automatically Tommen would marry Margaery. 

10 hours ago, UnFit Finlay said:

Who said he could manipulate him easily? I've never said that at all.

There is a huge difference between a wife asking her husband to appoint a skilled fighter to the Kingsguard, where he'd be one of seven, and whose membership had seen better days, and asking to turn the treasury over to a complete unknown.

And, yes, there IS a mystery about why Moore was chosen. If he'd earned it by his proving his skill in battle, a tourney etc, it would've been mentioned when Bronn was digging into his background. Literally all we know about it is "Jon Arryn gave him a white cloak even though he didn't like him".

Bronn knew little about Mandon. 

And what would Petyr gain from manipulating Lysa to appoint Moore?At that point he was just a petty lord in the middle of nowhere. 

10 hours ago, UnFit Finlay said:

Does writing a letter saying "Can you get my friend a job?" require much skill?

But what was the point of appointing Moore for Petyr? I doubt that Mandon and Petyr even met before. Petyr lived in Riverrun and Moore in Vale.

11 hours ago, UnFit Finlay said:

Who is saying he had everything planned? I flat out said that his whole deal is to put things in place and see how they work out. He obviously couldn't have forseen that he could use Mandon to try and off Tyrion, just like he couldn't have known that Catelyn would kidnap Tyrion on the Kings Road or that Cersei would confide in the Kettleblacks.

Also I believe we've already established that Littlefinger's only influence when he was young was his influence over Lysa, who was in love with him. We also know from his job in Gulltown that Lysa had at least some influence on Jon. We can argue about whether he got Mandon a job but the fact that he used Lysa's love for him to influence her husband is surely undeniable? Lysa flat out says it in the series.

I know that Petyr had influence over Lysa, but i really see no point for Petyr to make Mandon white cloak. How would he know that Moore would be loyal to him? In Storm of Swords Littlefinger stated that Osmund Kettleblack became unreliable after he joined kingsguard.

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Moore's father could easily enough have been a man in service to Littlefinger's father. We just don't know that yet.

Your idea that Joff was behind the whole thing doesn't make much sense. Perhaps you could make a case that Moore acted on his own but even that doesn't sound true to me.

Littlefinger father was smallest of small lords. How would he got gold to afford hiring household knight from noble house?

For me it makes sense. Joffrey was dumb, hated his uncle and had control over kingsguard. I doubt that Mandon could work on his own. He didn't seemed to be vengeful person.

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The last idea was fed to him by Littlefinger. Hiring the assassin to kill Bran might have been stupid but it was actually one of his few kinder/nobler acts. After all, he wanted to end the suffering of Bran as Robert himself said somebody should while being drunk.

If Littlefinger could manipulate Joffrey, i think it is possible that before he departed from King's Landing he could suggest Joff to murder Tyrion during chaos of battle. I think it is more plausible than Littlefinger having direct control over Mandon Moore.

[Greywater-Watch]

Littlefinger likes chaos, i.e. unclear political situations. Tyrion was perfect as a capable Hand but hated by Joffrey. Why remove him?

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Littlefinger father was smallest of small lords. How would he got gold to afford hiring household knight from noble house?

There is no reason to believe there is a noble house Moore. Mandon could be the first Ser in his family just as Osmund Kettleblack was the first Ser in his family.

In addition, there is the possibility that Ser Mandon is the distant cousin of some Moore's who actually hold lands somewhere in the Vale, just as Littlefinger's buddy Lothor Brune is a distant (and poor) relation of the Brunes from Crackclaw Point.

Littlefinger (and his father before him, presumably) has enough money to pay a few servants and men-at-arms, after all. We meet those in ASoS.

The tricky thing about Mandon Moore is that he apparently was a very private person. We don't know anything about him, and nobody we met knew him intimately. That leaves a lot of room for speculation.

3 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

For me it makes sense. Joffrey was dumb, hated his uncle and had control over kingsguard. I doubt that Mandon could work on his own. He didn't seemed to be vengeful person.

There are actual some hints in the ACoK that Moore might have disliked Tyrion. Keep in mind how Tyrion challenged Moore when he first entered the Small Council chamber or how he later beat Joffrey in Moore's presence. We learn that you can't read anything in his dead eyes but this doesn't mean that the man had no emotions, feelings, intentions. It just means he was very good at hiding those.

And no, we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Joff wanted his uncle dead. He loathed but he was also afraid of him. If Joff had been behind the Moore attempt we would have seen evidence for this in ASoS. Joff got caught as the culprit in the dagger story, and he would also have been caught as the man behind the attempt on Tyrion. Perhaps not by Tyrion but George could easily enough have included a memory of Cersei's in her chapters in AFfC, remembering how Joff reacted when he heard about Tyrion's near fatal injury.

3 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

If Littlefinger could manipulate Joffrey, i think it is possible that before he departed from King's Landing he could suggest Joff to murder Tyrion during chaos of battle. I think it is more plausible than Littlefinger having direct control over Mandon Moore.

That makes little sense because Joff clearly did not seem to see the battle as some sort of game he could score a point. He clearly trusted his uncle with the defense of his city and was visibly afraid for his own life when things seemed to go badly. The idea that he would plan to have Tyrion murdered while his own life and crown was also at stake is very unlikely for a stupid little shit like Joffrey (and the boy was pretty stupid, if you reread his interactions with other characters).

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 11/23/2016 at 6:52 PM, Light a wight tonight said:

Baelish or Cersei. I'd go with Baelish, too. Doesn't quite sound like Cersei's style. 

She sent another KG on a covert op to kill Doran...

[Oakhearts head]

I agree with Lord Varys

And why does it matter if Littlefinger knew Mandon Moore before he went to Kings Landing? Moore's relationship with Lysa Arryn may have been genuine, and Baelish could have simply leveraged a working relationship through Lysa once he joined the Small Council.

[Paxter Redwyne]

58 minutes ago, Oakhearts head said:

I agree with Lord Varys

And why does it matter if Littlefinger knew Mandon Moore before he went to Kings Landing? Moore's relationship with Lysa Arryn may have been genuine, and Baelish could have simply leveraged a working relationship through Lysa once he joined the Small Council.

Mandon Moore didn't seem to care about anyone.

[Clegane'sPup]

Go to https://asearchoficeandfire.com/  type in Mandon Moore. It should bring up approximately 20 some quotes. From that a person can read chapters and books that mention Moore.

I don’t have an opinion on whether LF, Cersei or Joffrey played a part in his attack on Tyrion but there is enough info there to suggest that Moore had a grudge and acted on his own accord.

My penny worth, such as it is.

 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

She sent another KG on a covert op to kill Doran...

Not in the books that George wrote. Or do you think Balon Swann is going to return to Sunspear and kill Doran when he was actually sent to escort Trystane and Myrcella to KL and only diverted to High Hermitage by Myrcella to avenge her?

Cersei also has no reason to kill Doran. She wanted her daughter back and her betrothal dissolved, not start a war with Dorne.

[Paxter Redwyne]

23 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not in the books that George wrote. Or do you think Balon Swann is going to return to Sunspear and kill Doran when he was actually sent to escort Trystane and Myrcella to KL and only diverted to High Hermitage by Myrcella to avenge her?

Cersei also has no reason to kill Doran. She wanted her daughter back and her betrothal dissolved, not start a war with Dorne.

I guess he meant that plot to murder Trystane by brigands what was supposedly Cersei's idea.

[Lord Varys]

30 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

I guess he meant that plot to murder Trystane by brigands what was supposedly Cersei's idea.

Oh, okay, then the brigands (and Swann) are supposed to murder both Trystane and Doran during the journey, assuming Doran accompanies them? That is a possibility yet I don't think it is very likely considering that Cersei has nothing to gain from a new ruler in Dorne. Doran was predictable in his caution and apparent cowardice. He was not likely going to war. Arianne or Quentyn might.

The idea as presented suggests that Doran should witness the murder of his son and thus absolve Cersei of all guilt in the matter. That wasn't that bad a plan, aside from the fact that Cersei failed to keep it a secret.

And in the end Swann himself was only complicit in the murder. He would not bloody his hands himself, though. Any hint or suspicion that a Kingsguard had a hand in the death of the Prince of Dorne or his son could cause a war between Dorne and the Iron Throne.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yeah... I meant Trystane. I am a dufus. 

[UnFit Finlay]

On 26/11/2016 at 9:10 AM, Paxter Redwyne said:

Faith was at this point pretty much powerless at that point.

Stannis was supported by stormlanders and some crownlanders and reachmans. Smallfolk hated Joffrey and unless Stannis would act same way as him, they should feel relieved that Joffrey was deposed. With Joffrey dead Tyrells would have gain little for fighting against Stannis. He did nothing wrong to them and with Joff dead, it don't mean that automatically Tommen would marry Margaery. 

The Faith has never been powerless. It might've been led by toothless puppets, yet those puppets existed for a reason: To control all the people who believe in the Seven, which is the entire South at least overtly. Tommen's reign is in turmoil because the High Sparrow refused to give him his blessing. Imagine how the smallfolk would react if King's Landing fell to a bloke who has openly denounced the Seven and burned septs?

Smallfolk didn't hate Joffrey. They hated starving. Stannis isn't going to be able to fix that while quelling riots and being at war with the rest of the realm. And he would be. Even if you don't consider murdering Renly as "doing nothing wrong" to the Tyrells (Why kill Florents in that case?), Stannis is still Stannis. They'd have far more to gain with an alliance to the Lannisters (which was already agreed at this point by the way) than the guy who was known for his stubbornness and refusal to negotiate.

Not that it particularly mattered to Littlefinger. Regardless of what happened on the Blackwater, he was still the best placed to negotiate with Lysa and so would be safe in the Vale no matter what.
 

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Bronn knew little about Mandon. 

And what would Petyr gain from manipulating Lysa to appoint Moore?At that point he was just a petty lord in the middle of nowhere.

 

Nobody knew anything about Mandon. That's the point. Jorah Mormont was hardly worthy of the Kingsguard and, yet, people still know that he was second through the Wall at Pyke during Balon's rebellion and won the Tourney at Lannisport. Likewise Lothor Brune. Again, not a Kingsguard, but he fought well enough on the Blackwater to earn his Knighthood and the nickname "Apple Eater".

Mandon Moore - Supposedly one of the best fighters in the realm, charged with defending the King and NO ONE knows anything about him? The only real comparison is Kettleblack and we all know that his appointment was dodgy.

As for the point of it? Well, like I've said before, Littlefinger doesn't plan out every detail. He puts things in place and then sees how they play out. Assuming he was still on the Fingers when this occurred then it could easily have just been a way to see if he could influence Lysa. After all, it's not like he had anything to lose at that point.
 

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For me it makes sense. Joffrey was dumb, hated his uncle and had control over kingsguard. I doubt that Mandon could work on his own. He didn't seemed to be vengeful person.

If Littlefinger could manipulate Joffrey, i think it is possible that before he departed from King's Landing he could suggest Joff to murder Tyrion during chaos of battle. I think it is more plausible than Littlefinger having direct control over Mandon Moore.

 

Again, Joffrey doing it makes no sense to me. As Lord Varys pointed out, his behaviour towards his Uncle never changed in the slightest, and he was the kind of cowardly bully who'd have rubbed it into Tyrion. I mean, he flat out told him he was planning to rape Sansa. Do you really think he wouldn't at least imply that he was behind the attempt on Tyrion? I think he'd wait until they were alone and say something "It's a shame Ser Mandon couldn't get the job done.". As you say, he did hate Tyrion and he was dumb and rash. Would he really be smart enough to keep silent? It's not like Tyrion could do anything about it.

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

Mandon Moore being from the vale was a red herring. Littlefinger had nothing to do with him. Nor is Mandon Moore seem like the type that littlefinger can manipulate. The guy had zero personality.

It was either Joffery or Cersei considering they're the only ones who can order a kingsguard to do anything.

Personally i think it was Joffery, after that whole slapping incident from the riot

[chrisdaw]

Supernatural influence, probably Bloodraven.