Skinchanger Zombies: Jon, the Last Hero, and Coldhands

[LmL]

3 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

I think a green man skinned changed a dragon person. Renly is a Baratheon whose paternity is both a dragon and maternity is green stag man. And Garlan while being a green crawling/strangling vine person, one of his unfortunate nickname would have been Garlan the gargoyle, a stone dragon. So Garlan skin changing dead Renly is a weed growing inside of Renly and mimics Orelle's consciousness going from Orelle to the Eagle and then into Varamyr, slowing changing Varamyr. 

Bran skinchanging Hodor might suggest the host body might be large, giant-ish. Did children skinchange giants, or these horned people? 

Robyn Arryn skinchanged his giant, and so does Bran. 

[LmL]

I mean, I suppose I should mention that Winterfell is the prime, #1 example of a fire moon meteor lodged inside a frozen thing - the entire North. That's why Starks = frozen fire. 

[Pain killer Jane]

2 hours ago, LmL said:

I've been trying to figure out the symbolism of the maesters for forever... grey rats, most often. Not sure what they are symbolizing.

Grey sheep as well. The Maester Cressen scene is significant to me as it puts him in between the hellhound and the wyvern and makes it a trio and thus casts the maesters as part of the set. I tend to think of them as grey ravens, grey scarecrows, and grey knights. And remember they were originally called Peremore's pet. So if they are grey then would be covered in ash. (And one thing I didn't mention was that covering your head with ashes is a form of morning the dead.) edit: and you know if the maesters are Rooks then knights can be considered bishops. 

2 hours ago, LmL said:

Bran skinchanging Hodor might suggest the host body might be large, giant-ish. Did children skinchange giants, or these horned people? 

hmmm....in this context that is correct because I think we should think of Huzhor Amai wearing the skin of the hairy man as having a 'monkey on his back; and thus we parallel Mark Mullendore (and the first part of his last name has mullen in it like Hallis Mollen) having his pet monkey and would also account for the LB character of the woman with a monkey's tail which would all bring the Leng with their Yitish and Lengii peoples; their tigers and their old ones, Naath (with their butterflies).

And can I say that Bran and Hodor always reminded me of Master Blaster in Mad Max and the Thunder Dome. 

[Pain killer Jane]

 

44 minutes ago, LmL said:

That's really interesting, I like both of those correlation for Dick. Nice work!

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

Bran skinchanging Hodor might suggest the host body might be large, giant-ish.

Bran will skinchange Drogon to take out the meteor before it can impact the planet.  

You heard it here first!

[ravenous reader]

34 minutes ago, LmL said:

I mean, I suppose I should mention that Winterfell is the prime, #1 example of a fire moon meteor lodged inside a frozen thing - the entire North. That's why Starks = frozen fire. 

The heart of winter is fire; and the heart of summer is winter.

You'll see...

[ravenous reader]

19 hours ago, LmL said:

As for the black ship, I think it serves as an invisible pedestal, such as the one which held up Gregor's gleaming white skull. It makes it look like a suspended moon. It's very like silver Dany riding on black drogon or black brother Jon and his white wolf - these pairing s represent a unity, but a black / white one. Or a person / shadow one - Ghost is a white shadow and Drogon a black Winged Shadow. Davos's banner shows a black ship and a white moon onion, and he is symbolized by the half rotten onion, half black and half white.  You have to split such and onion in half, which starts to get confusing for me. The morningstar in the story is really the comet - that's second sun, the son of the son idea - and the comet does indeed split.. but I thought the onion was a dead ringer for a moon, right?

I suppose the way to look at it might be this.  The white onions are likewise moon meteors - Others, essentially, the little bits of moon that fall from the sky. Davis is the comet, essentially, so one time the comet brings icy meteors, and one time it brings fiery black shadow meteors.  The white onion can therefore symbolize the ice moon itself, or the little ice moonlets that come from it. The half rotten idea would apply to the moon itself, half rotten because of the fire moon meteor

The same vessel (Davos's boat) can be used to bring evil (Melisandre and her kinslaying shadows) or good (onions).  Melisandre is mistaken: you can't divide the onion into one half black and one half white.  The black is contained within the white part; and the white is contained within the black.  Indivisible.  Neither one nor the other.

It's the yin-yang:

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A Feast for Crows - Arya I

At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors twelve feet high. The left-hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony. The look of it reminded her somehow of the heart tree in the godswood at Winterfell. The doors are watching me, she thought. She pushed upon both doors at once with the flat of her gloved hands, but neither one would budge. Locked and barred. "Let me in, you stupid," she said. "I crossed the narrow sea." She made a fist and pounded. "Jaqen told me to come. I have the iron coin." She pulled it from her pouch and held it up. "See? Valar morghulis."

 

[LmL]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

The heart of winter is fire; and the heart of summer is winter.

You'll see...

That's more or less what i am saying - but what is the icy heart of summer exactly?

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Bran will skinchange Drogon to take out the meteor before it can impact the planet.  

You heard it here first!

That is indeed the first I've heard of that idea. That would be rather spectacular, and it would have to be a very small meteor. LoL. 

[Pain killer Jane]

21 hours ago, LmL said:

So, I think he is playing the Venus role here, as the "son of the sun" usually does. He brings the morning with an onion, an ice moon symbol, and another time he breaths death and nightfall in the form of the black shadows birthed by Melisandre, fire moo meteor symbols. 

So the version of Davos the smuggler is the 'son of the sun' which would go back to your Grey King and the Ironborn sea culture essays. And Davos the Knight brought death, so if Dany's dragons are death and the Others are death than what do we make of Ser Davos the Dragonslayer/Ser Wyn (Joy) of the mirror shield?  

And you know the ice moon symbol bringing the morning is interesting in a sense it can be considered a false light as it is a mirror reflecting the sun's rays but it is still a light. 

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Bran will skinchange Drogon to take out the meteor before it can impact the planet.  

You heard it here first!

lol! I mean it is a bit more plausible than him riding the ice dragon that is sleeping under the wall. (Or at least that is how I think the theory goes)

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

The same vessel (Davos's boat) can be used to bring evil (Melisandre and her kinslaying shadows) or good (onions).  Melisandre is mistaken: you can't divide the onion into one half black and one half white.  The black is contained within the white part; and the white is contained within the black.  Indivisible.  Neither one nor the other.

It's the yin-yang:

 

[ravenous reader]

2 hours ago, LmL said:

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Bran will skinchange Drogon to take out the meteor before it can impact the planet.  

You heard it here first!

That is indeed the first I've heard of that idea. That would be rather spectacular, and it would have to be a very small meteor. LoL. 

Yes, I was only taking the symbolism into account, not thinking of the logistics!  I envision it as a magical missile defense system.

1 hour ago, Pain killer Jane said:

lol! I mean it is a bit more plausible than him riding the ice dragon that is sleeping under the wall. (Or at least that is how I think the theory goes)

Have a good look at his 'coma dream' again.

I think Bran broke through the atmosphere and had a space flight with a glimpse of the meteor bearing down on the planet:

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A Game of Thrones - Bran III

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

Bran looked north, 'past the Wall,' beyond the border of the continent ('the frozen shore'), all the way to the polar ice cap with the glaciers ('great blue-white rivers of ice'), 'north and north and north' all the way to the North Pole, to the 'curtain of light at the end of the world' -- that's the Aurora Borealis.  Due to the earth's electromagnetic shield/field properties, the aurora phenomenon usually takes place at the poles.  The two most frequent colors of light are green -- like wildfire-- and red.

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In northern latitudes, the effect is known as the aurora borealis (or the northern lights), named after the Roman goddess of dawn, Aurora, and the Greek name for the north wind, Boreas, by Galileo in 1619.[7] Auroras seen within the auroral oval may be directly overhead, but from farther away they illuminate the poleward horizon as a greenish glow, or sometimes a faint red, as if the Sun were rising from an unusual direction.

Bran goes further, breaking through the curtain of light -- i.e. he penetrates the atmosphere -- into the darkness of space.  He 'looked beyond that curtain' -- he looked into space -- 'deep into the heart of winter' -- 'Winter' being a euphemism for the icy-cold, inhospitable void of space.  I'm inferring that the 'heart of Winter' is the impending meteor -- the heart of winter is fire (i.e. the meteor as fire vs. the void as winter; or alternatively the icy sheath as winter enfolding the core of black metallic fire of the meteor itself).

In other words, the Stark words 'Winter is coming' refer to the approach of the meteor bringing the Long Winter!

'The heat of his tears burned on his cheeks' -- by which we may intuit Bran flew pretty close to the meteor.  It's also foreshadowing that he'll meet his death by burning.  However, unlike @TyrionTLannister who believes Jon will be responsible for killing his brother Bran, I believe Bran will give his own life to save the planet from the meteor impact, and will meet his death in fire, raking away the comet before it enters the atmosphere, exploding it and/or diverting its trajectory, in an inverse mirror image of another Brandon Stark who broke and brought down the moon in the first place, thereby 'atoning' for the 'sins' of his ancestor ( @Feather Crystal you may find this interesting as an example of 'inversion,' should it come to pass).

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard V

Arya bit her lip. "What will Bran do when he's of age?"

Ned knelt beside her. "He has years to find that answer, Arya. For now, it is enough to know that he will live."

This is ironic.  What he's going to do by living is dying.  Bran is the savior figure.

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The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling."

"He was going to be a knight," Arya was saying now. "A knight of the Kingsguard. Can he still be a knight?"

Bran the 'broken' one will be responsible for the Dawn breaking.  He'll have fulfilled his lifelong ambition to be a knight and Kingsguard, since he'll have defended the planet and averted catastrophe, giving his own life for the cause.

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A Storm of Swords - Bran I

"No," said Jojen, "only a boy who dreams. The greenseers were more than that. They were wargs as well, as you are, and the greatest of them could wear the skins of any beast that flies or swims or crawls, and could look through the eyes of the weirwoods as well, and see the truth that lies beneath the world.

"The gods give many gifts, Bran. My sister is a hunter. It is given to her to run swiftly, and stand so still she seems to vanish. She has sharp ears, keen eyes, a steady hand with net and spear. She can breathe mud and fly through trees. I could not do these things, no more than you could. To me the gods gave the green dreams, and to you . . . you could be more than me, Bran. You are the winged wolf, and there is no saying how far and high you might fly . . .

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

Bran's eyes filled with tears. We came such a long way. The chamber echoed to the sound of the black river.

"You will never walk again, Bran," the pale lips promised, "but you will fly."

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

The last part of their dark journey was the steepest. Hodor made the final descent on his arse, bumping and sliding downward in a clatter of broken bones, loose dirt, and pebbles. The girl child was waiting for them, standing on one end of a natural bridge above a yawning chasm. Down below in the darkness, Bran heard the sound of rushing water. An underground river.

"Do we have to cross?" Bran asked, as the Reeds came sliding down behind him. The prospect frightened him. If Hodor slipped on that narrow bridge, they would fall and fall.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit.

 

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven."

"I was eight when my father sent me to foster at the Eyrie," Ned said. "Ser Rodrik tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey. That is not healthy. Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine. Our House will be the safer for it."

The bridge Bran has to cross basically represents a space-flight!

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I

"Yes," Catelyn agreed. The words gave her a chill, as they always did. The Stark words. Every noble house had its words. Family mottoes, touchstones, prayers of sorts, they boasted of honor and glory, promised loyalty and truth, swore faith and courage. All but the Starks. Winter is coming, said the Stark words. Not for the first time, she reflected on what a strange people these northerners were.

"The man died well, I'll give him that," Ned said. He had a swatch of oiled leather in one hand. He ran it lightly up the greatsword as he spoke, polishing the metal to a dark glow

had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged. The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North.

I think Drogon represents Ice, the Valyrian steel sword.  Once Bran skinchanges him, it'll be like Oathkeeper 'drinking the sun,' since Bran represents the sun/son!  Skinchanging someone or something is a bit like being swallowed by them.  Within Drogon, his appellation 'kissed by fire' will take on a literal meaning.  It'll be the ultimate heroic act because skinchanging a dragon is like being burnt alive -- since as @GloubieBoulga has highlighted dragons are fire made flesh -- so this would be excruciating agony to endure for a greenseer.

2 hours ago, LmL said:

what is the icy heart of summer exactly

I'm not sure.  Perhaps Bran is the icy heart of summer?  In addition to signifying a person, it should also point at a geographic locale.   I haven't figured it out yet!  Perhaps when he skinchanges Drogon, he will represent Drogon's icy heart?  The only problem with this symbolic classification is that Bran is usually depicted in solar rather than lunar terms.

But the fiery heart of winter is the meteor -- the eyes lighting up the dark velvet map of space.  I'll wager the previous one impacted at the exact spot in the godswood - 'ground zero' at Winterfell -- seeding the heart tree where it now grows; that's why it's termed a 'god's' wood, seeded as it is by the gods from outer space.  The paradox this poses, however, is that if the weirwoods only grew from the meteor or were only magically transformed following the meteor impact, then how did the greenseers in the first place 'bring down the moon' that transformed the trees...?

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A Game of Thrones - Bran I

So deep in thought was he that he never heard the rest of the party until his father moved up to ride beside him. "Are you well, Bran?" he asked, not unkindly.

"Yes, Father," Bran told him. He looked up. Wrapped in his furs and leathers, mounted on his great warhorse, his lord father loomed over him like a giant. "Robb says the man died bravely, but Jon says he was afraid."

"What do you think?" his father asked.

Bran thought about it. "Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"

"That is the only time a man can be brave," his father told him. "Do you understand why I did it?"

Bran had no answer for that. "King Robert has a headsman," he said, uncertainly.

"He does," his father admitted. "As did the Targaryen kings before him. Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

"One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

I think Bran will fulfill all three roles -- being the one to pass the sentence, swing the sword, and face death himself.  The sword he'll be swinging will be the ultimate Valyrian steel blade -- the sword without a hilt -- namely Drogon 'the winged shadow.'  And how does one wield a sword without a hilt -- by skinchanging!  Up in the firmament, Drogon and Bran will extinguish themselves together with the meteor in a cosmic version of the 'Dance of the Dragons' -- with Drogon-Bran as the black sword with 'ice' core and the meteor as pale white sword with 'fire' core -- cancelling each other out, exploding and therefore ushering in the dawn.  Except : the 'sun' will 'rise' in the west, not east...

The sky will be strewn with 'A storm of rose petals...across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death' representing the remnants of the primordial battle.  

Jon's role in all of this will be to battle the ice creatures (Others) on the ground who have awoken in response to the meteor's approach, while Bran battles the ice creature (ice moon meteor) who summoned them from space.

P.S. @LynnS what do you think of my new interpretation of the 'coma dream'?!

[LmL]

47 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I'm not sure.  Perhaps Bran is the icy heart of summer?  In addition to signifying a person, it should also point at a geographic locale.   I haven't figured it out yet!  Perhaps when he skinchanges Drogon, he will represent Drogon's icy heart?  The only problem with this symbolic classification is that Bran is usually depicted in solar rather than lunar terms.

The one icy thing down at Asshai (which parallels the Heart of Winter as an analog for the corresponding moon) is the Ghost Grass, which is like a field of Dawn swords. Everything else is fiery or burnt.

47 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

But the fiery heart of winter is the meteor -- the eyes lighting up the dark velvet map of space.  

Yes, the Stranger is black shadow with stars for eyes, which is the same idea as the Great Other. I like the idea that beyond the curtain of light is space, that's cool. The idea that winter comes along with meteor sis quite honestly suggested in the prologue when we see the Others with blue star eyes. 

47 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I'll wager the previous one impacted at the exact spot in the godswood - 'ground zero' at Winterfell -- seeding the heart tree where it now grows; that's why it's termed a 'god's' wood, seeded as it is by the gods from outer space.  The paradox this poses, however, is that if the weirwoods only grew from the meteor or were only magically transformed following the meteor impact, then how did the greenseers in the first place 'bring down the moon' that transformed the trees...?

It's hard to say because the Isle of Faces and Winterfell are both super important places which symbolize the fire moon, does that mean they're impact locations? Not necessarily. Maybe little meteors fell everywhere, maybe not. 

It's possible the greenseers didn't use the trees to bring down the moon, that's the obvious answer. 

[GloubieBoulga]

2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

However, unlike @TyrionTLannister who believes Jon will be responsible for killing his brother Bran, I believe Bran will give his own life to save the planet from the meteor impact, and will meet his death in fire,

ha ha ! I think both are possible - like in the movie Last temptation of Christ from Scorcese, where Jesus tell Judas to betray him. Bran could demand to Jon to kill him because he is affraid about his proper sacrifice and death and need help for that (and/or to make the agony by fire shorter)

[Melifeather]

6 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I believe Bran will give his own life to save the planet from the meteor impact, and will meet his death in fire, raking away the comet before it enters the atmosphere, exploding it and/or diverting its trajectory, in an inverse mirror image of another Brandon Stark who broke and brought down the moon in the first place, thereby 'atoning' for the 'sins' of his ancestor ( @Feather Crystal you may find this interesting as an example of 'inversion,' should it come to pass).

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard V

Arya bit her lip. "What will Bran do when he's of age?"

Ned knelt beside her. "He has years to find that answer, Arya. For now, it is enough to know that he will live."

This is ironic.  What he's going to do by living is dying.  Bran is the savior figure.

Stopping in to say hello. Hello!

While I agree that Bran will end up the savior figure...actually the old gods will intervene, I have different thoughts about where the danger is coming from. I've outlined my ideas on the Heresy Inversion thread that the Children view Planetos as a sister moon to the moon: "Nissa Nissa", therefore the breaking of the moon, the cracking that released a thousand thousand dragons was a super-volcano versus a meteor impact. The burning rocks and basalt came from this volcano. 

There is a destruction coming from both ice and fire. The ice danger is of course from the white walkers and wights, but the fire danger will be Euron with (a) dragon(s). Westeros will be completely destroyed before things will get better. The title of the next book hinting to a very dark time before we get to the Dream of Spring. That is why I think the old gods will intervene. Bran will have to destroy both ice and fire via the weirwood.

[LynnS]

6 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

what do you think of my new interpretation of the 'coma dream'?!

Gee, I haven't given a lot of thought to the ending of things.  From a purely astronomical interpretation; comets are icy snowballs (even thought this one is mysteriously red).  If it strikes Planetos;  it would be like an icy red sword striking into the planet (R'hllor's) ice covered firey heart.  I like the idea that the comet is a sword without a hilt.  I have thought that the third eye containing terrible knowledge is akin to seeing your own death.  Perhaps the firey demise of the comet will see it exploding in the atmosphere rather than impacting the planet. But it does seem that it must be destroyed in some way.

I'm not sure who will survive although Martin has the scouring of the Shire in mind.  Bran may be too broken to return.

[LmL]

2 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Stopping in to say hello. Hello!

While I agree that Bran will end up the savior figure...actually the old gods will intervene, I have different thoughts about where the danger is coming from. I've outlined my ideas on the Heresy Inversion thread that the Children view Planetos as a sister moon to the moon: "Nissa Nissa", therefore the breaking of the moon, the cracking that released a thousand thousand dragons was a super-volcano versus a meteor impact. The burning rocks and basalt came from this volcano

 

@Feather Crystal, with all due respect, that's about the silliest idea I've ever heard. The Earth is the Moon? The Earth cannot be a moon - the Earth has moons. If the Earth is a moon, what is it a moon of? In order for something to be a moon, it has to orbit a planet. The Earth is not a moon, and cannot under any circumstance or from any perspective be considered a moon. 

No offense, that's just the meaning of the word moon, and you're breaking it (pun intended). 

Also, I'd like to keep this thread focused on things which are in some way tangentially related zombies and green men if possible.  I usually am fine with a free for all but your Inversion theory has become an entire thing on its own with an advanced series of speculations and projections which kind of need it's own space... unless of course you have any observations of the text which pertain to resurrected people or green men, which would be quite welcome! 

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There is a destruction coming from both ice and fire. The ice danger is of course from the white walkers and wights, but the fire danger will be Euron with (a) dragon(s). Westeros will be completely destroyed before things will get better. The title of the next book hinting to a very dark time before we get to the Dream of Spring. That is why I think the old gods will intervene. Bran will have to destroy both ice and fire via the weirwood.

I agree that Euron seems to be headed for a top slot villain role, but I also wonder how George will twist it. I've wondered if Euron might actually succeed in abducting Daenerys. Just a random thought. Stealing a dragon, you know? 

Which dragon do you think he might take? Also, do you think one of the dragons will be weighted, and if so, which one?

[LmL]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Gee, I haven't given a lot of thought to the ending of things.  From a purely astronomical interpretation; comets are icy snowballs (even thought this one is mysteriously red).  If it strikes Planetos;  it would be like an icy red sword striking into the planet (R'hllor's) ice covered firey heart.  I like the idea that the comet is a sword without a hilt.  I have thought that the third eye containing terrible knowledge is akin to seeing your own death.  Perhaps the firey demise of the comet will see it exploding in the atmosphere rather than impacting the planet. But it does seem that it must be destroyed in some way.

I'm not sure who will survive although Martin has the scouring of the Shire in mind.  Bran may be too broken to return.

 I personally have seen what appears to be foreshadowing that we are headed for another Moon disaster. The comet needs to return and impregnate the ice Moon, so the ice Moon can give birth to some kind of meteor snow storm. It seems to me like these passages are indicating that this event will trigger the wall to fall, and the new long night as well. For that to be the case, some of the meteors will have to reach the Earth. I'm not sure how that affects the "Deep Impact Drogon" hypothesis (Deep impact was one of those movies where they try to fly up to an asteroid and plant a rocket or some such on there to avert disaster). I have also picked up some hints that it might be possible to quotation skin change the comment or skin change the moon itself. Think of that scene where at Winterfell for Ramsey's wedding where the moon was like an eye peering through a veil - some think that is bran watching the scene through the Moon. It's a little out there, but there it is. Dany also has scenes where she thinks about being able to touch the comet, or being able to touch the Moon.

Basically, there are three characters who seem tied to this line of foreshadowing about an impending Moon disaster: Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Bran. I'm not sure exactly what's going to go down, but those three will be tied to it somehow. Dany seems tied to the horn and the act of bringing down the moon, Jon seems tied to bringing down the moon and the Wall falling, and  I would agree that Bran tends to have sacrificial savior written all over him  and is probably the most powerful magician in the series.

 in regards to Brand possibly seeing the comet or something of outer space when he looked past the curtain of light... I have to say that if my theories are generally barking up the right tree, if there was some sort of the Moon meteor disaster in ancient past, I would expect bran to see a glimpse of it through the weirwoodnet at some point. It's really the only way to provide even the slimmest corroboration for an ancient moon meteor event in a way that would make sense for the readers. If Bran is seeing some flashbacks and catches a glimpse of fire falling from the sky... we'll be able to put it together and figure out what he's seeing.  you can understand if Martin doesn't spell it out for us back in the first book, but I like the idea of Bran having glimpsed something astronomical, and I really like the idea of him glimpsing something astronomical in the future... from the past.

[Melifeather]

58 minutes ago, LmL said:

@Feather Crystal, with all due respect, that's about the silliest idea I've ever heard. The Earth is the Moon? The Earth cannot be a moon - the Earth has moons. If the Earth is a moon, what is it a moon of? In order for something to be a moon, it has to orbit a planet. The Earth is not a moon, and cannot under any circumstance or from any perspective be considered a moon. 

No offense, that's just the meaning of the word moon, and you're breaking it (pun intended). 

Also, I'd like to keep this thread focused on things which are in some way tangentially related zombies and green men if possible.  I usually am fine with a free for all but your Inversion theory has become an entire thing on its own with an advanced series of speculations and projections which kind of need it's own space... unless of course you have any observations of the text which pertain to resurrected people or green men, which would be quite welcome! 

I agree that Euron seems to be headed for a top slot villain role, but I also wonder how George will twist it. I've wondered if Euron might actually succeed in abducting Daenerys. Just a random thought. Stealing a dragon, you know? 

Which dragon do you think he might take? Also, do you think one of the dragons will be weighted, and if so, which one?

Of course you know this is taking place on a fantasy "planet", right? The proposal of a life on a moon is not a new idea to science fiction. @WeaselPie first brought the idea to my attention with both a hollow earth theory and A Journey to the Earth's Interior. Marvel comics also has a correlation for this as well, and the astrolabe that opens the GOT show may even hint to this since it looks like the sun is in the center of a curved world. I'm not trying to bring my inversion ideas over here. I was specifically replying to something Ravenous Reader had said about Bran stopping an asteroid.

As for which dragon(s) will Euron steal....Dany is away from the city with Drogon, but the other two are game. I'd say he takes Viserion and Rhaegal.

[LmL]

4 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Of course you know this is taking place on a fantasy "planet", right? The proposal of a life on a moon is not a new idea to science fiction. @WeaselPie first brought the idea to my attention with both a hollow earth theory and A Journey to the Earth's Interior. Marvel comics also has a correlation for this as well, and the astrolabe that opens the GOT show may even hint to this since it looks like the sun is in the center of a curved world. I'm not trying to bring my inversion ideas over here. I was specifically replying to something Ravenous Reader had said about Bran stopping an asteroid.

As for which dragon(s) will Euron steal....Dany is away from the city with Drogon, but the other two are game. I'd say he takes Viserion and Rhaegal.

The point is that for Earth to be a "moon," it would have to be orbiting a planet. If this were so, the planet would be absolutely huge in the sky, in fact it would dominate the sky. We would know if this were the case. Ergo, the Earth in A Song of Ice and Fire cannot be a moon. This is actually one of the few ideas that can be definitively ruled out, because there is no huge planet hanging in the sky. And obviously A Song of Ice and Fire is not taking place inside of a hollow Earth, because we can see the stars and the moon and the sun.